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Post by wad on Jun 21, 2012 4:18:42 GMT -8
That begs the question of why wasn't a bus terminal included with the design of the station? I got an answer at the opening from a Culver CityBus representative. I later found out it was Art Ida, the director! The agencies did look at a potential bus transit center at Culver City, but it turns out that the odd angles of the streets and the existing buildings on the west and north sides precluded an off-street transit center. A properly designed center would have needed the whole block given to Expo, mainly because buses must avoid making obtuse-angle (135 degree) turns. And a ring of bus layover parking spots on the street was ruled out. Businesses don't want idled buses blocking their storefronts. Also, the biggest problem would have been from Metro, because it runs the most and the highest frequency lines.
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Post by Philip on Jun 21, 2012 8:19:26 GMT -8
I rode the line again yesterday from Culver City. It was definitely the best ride so far in terms of speed...up until after 23rd Street. The Flower Street section is still painfully, painfully slow. We spent six minutes just sitting there until finally an announcer came on the speaker saying that they were experiencing a delay. As we went by, I noticed a Blue Line train sitting at Grand Station. They probably both arrived at the same time and were having trouble figuring out which train should leave first.
When we finally arrived at 7th Street, the entire ride was 33 minutes. Had the delay not occurred, the train would have been right on time.
I'm happy the Expo Line finally exists in its complete form, but they need to get Flower Street under control and soon.
On the plus side, I did notice a lot more people riding yesterday. The new stations and improved bus connections combined with speculators wanting to ride to the new stations seems to have beefed up the ridership. With all that and the added events from all the L.A. Kings excitement in the last few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw the ridership double from the previous numbers.
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Post by bzcat on Jun 21, 2012 10:02:19 GMT -8
Culver City provided free shuttle bus to Downtown area on opening day. It's unfortunate that the shuttle won't operate on a permanent basis.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 21, 2012 12:14:59 GMT -8
Observations today:
Only one person boarded my train at Farmdale -- a well-dressed, middle-aged neighborhood lady.
Some of the La Cienega park-and-rides already have shifted to Culver City. There were about 150 cars parked at Culver City (running about 1/3 full) and about half came from La Cienega. I expect more people parking at La Cienega to move to Culver City in the next weeks.
Culver City Station has quite decent ridership as a start, already more than at La Cienega. I estimate the current ridership at around 15,000.
One of the Siemens P2000 trains was disabled again and was parked at the Culver City platform (south side), delaying the service a bit.
Regarding the new Blue Bus transit center: It is at Robertson a couple of hundred yards south of the station, about a three-minute walk from the station.
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Post by simonla on Jun 21, 2012 14:50:25 GMT -8
I rode yesterday and it was super fast: 26 minutes from CC to DTLA--we only hit one light, I believe right before Pico station. I guess right now, it's simply luck of the draw.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 21, 2012 17:54:20 GMT -8
Operational frustrations continue and the line is not quite ready for the prime time.
During rush hour this evening, they were shuttling a train back and forth between Culver City and La Cienega, with the LA train making its last stop at La Cienega. This was due to the Hayden switch malfunctioning. Culver City being the second-busy station along the alignment (after 7th/Metro), this was inconvenient for many.
At the elevated La Cienega Station, the operator accidentally opened the doors on the outer side. This left the first-time riders in awe when they almost stepped into zero gravity and 30-ft down below through widely spaced rods on the outer side of the bridge.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 21, 2012 19:56:46 GMT -8
No operational problems after 7:30 pm. I took the Expo Line from CC station to Farmdale. CC had about 20 people boarding around 7:30 pm (good for a 2nd day opening) and me and 1 other bicyclist deboarded at Farmdale. The ride between CC and La Cienega/Jefferson is very good and fast. Surprised they gave it 3 min on the Metro timetable though. Think it should be reduced to 2 minutes in December schedules.
Farmdale was interesting. As I said, only one other bicyclist got off with me. I stayed there to catch the next train back to CC (about a 20 minute wait as I just missed the westbound train). During the 20 minutes, not a single person boarded my eastbound train, which I departed, not a single person walked onto the EB or WB platform, not a single person boarded the next EB train and I was the ONLY person who boarded the WB train at Farmdale.
Will Farmdale be the lowest passenger station in the entire Metro system?
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Post by macross287 on Jun 21, 2012 20:00:21 GMT -8
I was watching the KTLA 5 report on the opening of the Expo Line and was pleasantly surprised with the last few minutes of the report where the Anchorman suggested to the reporter that she take the Expo Line to 7th and then transfer to the Red Line so she could return to the studio in Hollywood. Metro Rail is slowly becoming part of the local vernacular like other big city urban rail systems. www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-expo-line-opening-released,0,1216937.story
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 21, 2012 21:01:51 GMT -8
From my train, 5 people got off at Farmdale during evening rush hour, which I thought was very good for the second day. I think we will see significant ridership at Farmdale once people realize it's now open. Dorsey alone should add at least 500 a day. I never forget when the line first opened, one guy asked if Farmdale was open and got off when he was told no. So, yes, some people will (even exclusively) use this station. I wish they will get rid of the idiotic overkill 10 MPH speed limit at Farmdale though.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jun 21, 2012 21:37:57 GMT -8
I came across an anti-Expo article yesterday. Two writers counted passengers for two days during the first week of service and concluded that the train won't break even for 65 years! What morons! The clips that accompany the article show only empty platforms and trains; but things have been a lot busier than that on the three random occasions I've ridden the line. In this case it may have been intentional, but I've noticed generally that video clips of this system, even the ones made by people who have no particular beef with transit spending. Undoubtedly it's the easiest time to get a good shot of the trains and platforms, but I can't help being bothered by the fact that this makes most pictures remind me of what McArthur Park Station must have looked like the second day it was open. I came across an anti-Expo article yesterday. Two writers counted passengers for two days during the first week of service and concluded that the train won't break even for 65 years! What morons! The clips that accompany the article show only empty platforms and trains; but things have been a lot busier than that on the three random occasions I've ridden the line. In this case it may have been intentional, but I've noticed generally that video clips of this system, even the ones made by people who have no particular beef with transit spending. Undoubtedly it's the easiest time to get a good shot of the trains and platforms, but I can't help being bothered by the fact that this makes most pictures remind me of what McArthur Park Station must have looked like the second day it was open. ETA: (Moved to new post 06/24/12)
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jun 21, 2012 21:44:34 GMT -8
I rode yesterday from Culver City to Exposition Park, and will say the inbound trip seemed almost as fast as I could have driven it. Keep in mind that the freeway is almost never an option, because that's almost always jammed; so if I do drive I'm using surface streets.
Coming back we did get held up by some signal issues, which wasn't the greatest experience. Nevertheless it all seems borderline miraculous to me, and being able to head to downtown L.A. at the drop of a pin and not have to think about parking, and the money it costs, is huge.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 22, 2012 14:46:16 GMT -8
Today, the ride was pretty bad again because of ATP issues. The Nippon Sharyo train just kept braking and stopping at random places. It could be that the operator wasn't well-trained. The time from Culver City to Vermont was five minutes more than the scheduled time, despite not running into many red lights.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 22, 2012 14:48:32 GMT -8
We picked up this many passengers:
Farmdale: 9 Crenshaw: 25 Western: 12
Farmdale being only on its third day and many people still not knowing it, this is really good. It is proving to be a useful station.
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Post by Elson on Jun 22, 2012 18:05:51 GMT -8
We picked up this many passengers: Farmdale: 9 Crenshaw: 25 Western: 12 Farmdale being only on its third day and many people still not knowing it, this is really good. It is proving to be a useful station. The Rancho Cienega Rec Center is a pretty awesome park if you're into any kind of sports. It's right there by the Farmdale station (also accessible somewhat from La Brea). If you live anywhere along the corridor and want to play some tennis or soccer or go for a swim, it's just a train ride away. People need to know the place exists. Also adjacent to Rancho Cienega is the western end of King Blvd. There's so many empty spaces here and it sits right in the middle of the Expo and Crenshaw line corridors. SO much development potential here, and this is the kind of area where the neighbors woud love to see it happen.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jun 22, 2012 19:46:51 GMT -8
This is actually a good thing. Most transit systems suffer because theyre peak hour trains only. Some times it takes decades to build off-peak ridership. This doesn't sound right to me; what you seem to be referring to here is a suburban commuter railroad, like Metrolink. An urban transit system should offer reasonably frequent trains in all directions throughout its operating hours . By contrast, a commuter railroad may well offer no off- or reverse-peak service at all.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 22, 2012 19:56:17 GMT -8
Operational problems almost have become a joke on the Expo Line. I don't recall a single ride recently without problems.
It looks like everytime I ride it, something different is happening. This evening we came to the Culver City Station but the doors wouldn't open. After trying to open the doors of the Siemens P2000 for 5 minutes through various resets from the cab and the relay panel in the middle of the car, the operator opened the front door partially using the red manual emergency lever. I am guessing then he had to somehow open the doors of the other cars from the outside.
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Post by wad on Jun 23, 2012 4:10:16 GMT -8
Operational problems almost have become a joke on the Expo Line. I don't recall a single ride recently without problems. At this point, we might as well shut down the line and have the Phase II guys re-do all the Phase I mistakes and get a workable system in 4-5 years. I say this because Expo's only been open two months, and it's short enough that people haven't become attached to it.
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Post by simonla on Jun 23, 2012 8:44:17 GMT -8
I can't speak to the operational issues as I've ridden the line between 6-8 times and it's been blissfully uneventful. What I can say is that Farmdale is proving to be useful even when school is out. Remember Dorsey has thousands of kids and staff, including teachers, custodians, and cafeteria workers.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 23, 2012 9:19:47 GMT -8
Operational problems almost have become a joke on the Expo Line. I don't recall a single ride recently without problems. At this point, we might as well shut down the line and have the Phase II guys re-do all the Phase I mistakes and get a workable system in 4-5 years. I say this because Expo's only been open two months, and it's short enough that people haven't become attached to it. No need to go that far but I think the problem is with the maintenance and training, as well as general operations. Metro needs to step up in these areas. Why do these trains break down so often? Lately Siemens P2000s seem to be a bigger problem. Why are some operators struggling with the ATP, stalling the train constantly? Could this be fixed by training them better? Is the operations center not good at controlling this line? Why are we having issues with switches and so on? Do they need to work on turning the trains around in Culver City? Do they still need a software update? Could they fix the ATP problems along the line? Do we need to wait until the Kinki Sharyo's (new cars) for the problems to go away? These jerky rides (due to ATP not behaving well) and frequent mishaps are not making the Expo Line good. I can't believe rail lines are like this in general. I expected nothing like this before I started to ride this line. From what I knew, when you get on train, it's smooth accelerations and declarations from there on and hardly ever any mishaps. Why is the Expo Line so unusual right now?
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Post by Elson on Jun 23, 2012 11:52:29 GMT -8
At this point, we might as well shut down the line and have the Phase II guys re-do all the Phase I mistakes and get a workable system in 4-5 years. I say this because Expo's only been open two months, and it's short enough that people haven't become attached to it. No need to go that far but I think the problem is with the maintenance and training, as well as general operations. Metro needs to step up in these areas. Why do these trains break down so often? Lately Siemens P2000s seem to be a bigger problem. According to folks I know in rail operations, the P2000s have always been a problem mechanically, even on the Gold and Green lines. Which is kind of odd, since places like San Diego run an all-Siemens railcar fleet (they use three distinct models too) and have rarely had any problems.
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Post by macross287 on Jun 23, 2012 16:46:05 GMT -8
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Post by wad on Jun 24, 2012 4:41:55 GMT -8
No need to go that far but I think the problem is with the maintenance and training, as well as general operations. Metro needs to step up in these areas. The operative question is, "Whose stupidity is it anyway?" Were these failures introduced in Expo's design? Construction -- and we should be really worried about the junction likely causing a derailment? Operations? If it is operations ... sigh ... Twenty-Two Years.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 24, 2012 9:20:46 GMT -8
As a near daily rider of the Expo Line like Gokhan, there are only a few critical issues I see. All others were like one-off's (i.e. I haven't seen a car door stuck, open on wrong side or stopped for 10 min with no explanation).
1) Why does the Expo Line always stop-proceed before arriving into 23rd street station on the Nortbound? Very odd.
2) Flower street segment of Expo Line needs significant improvement. I was on Blue Line over the weekend and again it just glided on Washington St with only 1 light stop...even Long Beach seemed better north of 8th street before Willow station. Expo Line/Flower Street is the worst signal synchronization in the Metro rail station.
3) Speed up trains at Farmdale. The 10 mph is beyond ridiculous. If they just have to cross the intersection at 10 mph, why do they start so early, even gliding into the station at 10 mph? Was that part of the agreement or a problem with ATP?
These are Metro issues and not a contractor problem, I belive. So shutting down the line for 4 - 5 years will do nothing. Metro will have to resolve over time; just like they miracoulously sped up the Gold Line Pasadena segment by 5 minutes a few years after opening. The same can be done for Expo Line.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jun 24, 2012 10:42:47 GMT -8
Here's an interior shot taken June 20 at 4:35PM while riding westbound, IIRC somewhere between La Brea and La Cienega. Considering that they were using four-car trains that day, the car seems far from empty. The Hayden signal issue must have started around that time, however, because we had to sit and wait about ten minutes, between La Cienega and CC. (Why there would be a signal issue I don't understand, when there is no cross-traffic between here and the terminus.) (This was originally posted as an addendum to an earlier reply, but I moved it to its own post.)
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jun 24, 2012 11:00:51 GMT -8
3) Speed up trains at Farmdale. The 10 mph is beyond ridiculous. If they just have to cross the intersection at 10 mph, why do they start so early, even gliding into the station at 10 mph? Was that part of the agreement or a problem with ATP? Regarding speed--I noticed yesterday that in the sections between CC and Western, where traffic signals and ungated crossings become more prevalent, the train I was on really seemed to be hauling tail. Maybe it was just a matter of how I perceived it, but it seemed to be faster than I've ever traveled in a light rail train. I wondered if the agency is trying to speed up the overall schedule. This is with the exception of the stretch around Farmdale, which remains slow. In general I'd say the ridership looks good, merely estimating based on the occupancy level I've seen so far. I don't think we'll know the full potential for some years yet, when the rest of the line opens up and the Regional Connector is completed. When all that happens I think ridership will increase tremendously.I think we'll see a lot of "reverse-peak" commuters from the Inland Empire who take MetroLink to LAUS, then will take LRT to the Westside. If this segment of the ridership becomes large enough, Metro may want to consider starting up the rail lines an hour or two earlier. IME a lot of folks living in the IE have small children and like to work extremely early schedules, even as early as 6am to 2pm. (Yeah, it's kind of a drag scheduling meetings!)
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 25, 2012 7:26:03 GMT -8
Agreed that the Farmdale speed limit is grossly unnecessary. There is no need for speed limit here while the trains come to a full stop before they enter the crossing -- full stop means 0 MPH. Even in a pedestrian mall, CPUC speed limit is 20 MPH. 10 MPH speed limit even before the train hits the platform and until it clears the next platform is ridiculously paranoid.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 25, 2012 7:53:32 GMT -8
Agreed that the Farmdale speed limit is grossly unnecessary. There is no need for speed limit here while the trains come to a full stop before they enter the crossing -- full stop means 0 MPH. Even in a pedestrian mall, CPUC speed limit is 20 MPH. 10 MPH speed limit even before the train hits the platform and until it clears the next platform is ridiculously paranoid. Can this be overturned?
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 25, 2012 10:28:19 GMT -8
Agreed that the Farmdale speed limit is grossly unnecessary. There is no need for speed limit here while the trains come to a full stop before they enter the crossing -- full stop means 0 MPH. Even in a pedestrian mall, CPUC speed limit is 20 MPH. 10 MPH speed limit even before the train hits the platform and until it clears the next platform is ridiculously paranoid. Can this be overturned? Yes, but only if there is a resettlement between LAUSD and Metro. Ironically, the way currently the speed limit is implemented is not even in the current settlement. The current settlement says that there is a 15 MPH speed limit only after the train leaves the platform and before the nose of the train finishes passing the crossing. Expo implemented it as a 10 MPH speed limit throughout the Farmdale area. The reason for 10 MPH instead of 15 MPH is technical -- trains have only 10, 25, 35, 45, and 55 MPH speed limits on their ATP. But the reason why there is a speed limit in the entire area is Expo's ignorance -- they don't care how well the line runs as long as it runs.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 25, 2012 10:31:34 GMT -8
Expo's ignorance is almost everywhere.
Currently there are no signs at Venice/Robertson saying that the station is now open and arrows pointing to the station. There is only a fence covered with a green tarp and a construction zone blocking the station. For those who don't follow the line, the line is still not operational as far as they can see.
The ridership is still very low. Most of La Cienega ridership, including the park-and-ride, has shifted to Culver City but the overall ridership has increased little.
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Post by Philip on Jun 25, 2012 13:13:37 GMT -8
Currently there are no signs at Venice/Robertson saying that the station is now open and arrows pointing to the station. There is only a fence covered with a green tarp and a construction zone blocking the station. For those who don't follow the line, the line is still not operational as far as they can see. It looks like this will sadly be the case until the Venice Blvd. bridge is constructed. The whole area will be a war zone for anywhere from several months to maybe a year or two. It's doubtful that anyone, aside from those with full knowledge of the line, will see it as a fully-functioning, operational station. Then again, once people get used to seeing trains pulling in and out, it shouldn't be difficult to put two and two together and realize that it's working. I did see some signs yesterday for "Robertson Transit Hub" that were pointing in the general direction of the station, but is that actually referring to the Culver City station? If anything, I think that will confuse people even more.
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