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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 2, 2009 13:32:52 GMT -8
I'm a big believer that commuter rail will be an important component of transportation in the years ahead.
I'm curious about expansion of the San Bernadino Line, which would serve communities not connected to either Gold Line extension.
Is it possible to double track the portion from Union Station past Cal State L.A. or possibly reroute the line and finding another way to serve Cal State L.A. to allow more frequent service in the future?
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Post by Transit Coalition on Jun 2, 2009 14:39:26 GMT -8
I'm a big believer that commuter rail will be an important component of transportation in the years ahead. I'm curious about expansion of the San Bernadino Line, which would serve communities not connected to either Gold Line extension. Is it possible to double track the portion from Union Station past Cal State L.A. or possibly reroute the line and finding another way to serve Cal State L.A. to allow more frequent service in the future? The Metrolink San Bernardino Line already runs 20 minute service in the Peak Service direction. As far as double tracking along the freeway, there just isn't room to do so. The MetrolinkMax campaign is designed to ask Metro to allocate Measure R funds to expand late night, mid day and weekend service, as the funding is there. We are just missing the pressure to move the political will.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 2, 2009 14:50:20 GMT -8
Hmm. That single track does limit the ability to run more frequent trains if and when sufficient demand rises for it, right?
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Post by bobdavis on Jun 2, 2009 15:14:25 GMT -8
One could probably say that it's possible to double-track the line, but not without taking a slice of the El Monte Busway. There is room for a siding near County-USC Medical Center--at the site the former Pacific Electric State St. Yard. As I recall, there's a remant of the PE inbound main line that's used for work-train storage that could be upgraded for regular operations, but this might not be as useful as the already in-service siding near Fremont Ave. There's a coterie of rail enthusiasts who think the Gold Line was a big mistake, and that the former Santa Fe 2nd District should have been refurbished into a Metrolink line, which would have been faster and cheaper than tearing it out to build a light-rail line. The lack of frequent mid-day and weekend service, and absence of late night service point up the difference between light-rail/electric-suburban and diesel-hauled suburban/commuter service. It's a lot cheaper to run a single unit or even two-car electric light rail train with only one operator that it is to run a diesel locomotive and three or four cars with a two-person crew to cover off-peak hours. Not that it will happen any time soon, but there has been discussion of electrifying the San Bernardino Line, presumably with cars similar to the electric multiple unit cars found in the New York/Philadelphia networks. I would guess that electrification will happen to Caltrain (San Francisco to San Jose-Gilroy) before it comes to Metrolink, and that's still a ways off.
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Post by Justin Walker on Jun 2, 2009 16:04:47 GMT -8
Is it possible to double track the portion from Union Station past Cal State L.A. or possibly reroute the line and finding another way to serve Cal State L.A. to allow more frequent service in the future? Metrolink apparently thinks it is doable. Shown below is a map of projects Metrolink hopes to complete by 2030. As you can see, all 88% of the single-track segments on the San Bernardino Line are shown as being double-tracked by 2030. Edit: The projects identified in the 2007 Strategic Assessment only will result in 88% of the line being double-tracked. Adding a second track to the final major single-track segment between CP Barranca (MP 23.4) and San Dimas (MP 27.8) is not proposed in the plan. See existing conditions and proposed projects here.
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Post by bobdavis on Jun 2, 2009 17:18:25 GMT -8
Thanks for the map! I notice that it shows the Perris Valley Line, which is important to me as a member of Orange Empire Ry. Museum; it's supposed to open in 2011 (after missing the earlier planned opening in 2008). Only sign of action so far is the start of construction of a bus terminal in Perris. Regarding the double-tracking of the San Berdoo line--I hope it happens sometime before 2030. Since I'm old enough to remember the PE Monrovia-Glendora Line, 2030 is in the "I should live so long" time frame.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 3, 2009 8:23:25 GMT -8
Thanks for that map, Justin!!!
Does that include an extension to Palm Springs?
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Jun 3, 2009 10:24:43 GMT -8
How would that work? How can they double track from El Monte to Union Station? What about that Cal State LA station? Are they going to extend that track?
And look at the number 2's on the map. Triple tracks? Very nice.
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Post by masonite on Jun 3, 2009 20:47:50 GMT -8
I'm a big believer that commuter rail will be an important component of transportation in the years ahead. I'm curious about expansion of the San Bernadino Line, which would serve communities not connected to either Gold Line extension. Is it possible to double track the portion from Union Station past Cal State L.A. or possibly reroute the line and finding another way to serve Cal State L.A. to allow more frequent service in the future? The Metrolink San Bernardino Line already runs 20 minute service in the Peak Service direction. As far as double tracking along the freeway, there just isn't room to do so. The MetrolinkMax campaign is designed to ask Metro to allocate Measure R funds to expand late night, mid day and weekend service, as the funding is there. We are just missing the pressure to move the political will. Is there any hope for any real improvements in the next 4-5 years? Metrolink is the most underutilized transportation resource in SoCal. Late night and weekend service shouldn't require any track improvements, but will obviously more operating subsidies.
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Post by spokker on Jun 3, 2009 23:10:39 GMT -8
The San Bernardino Line is a monster of a line that now has hourly service all day. This was accomplished in the last schedule change I believe.
Unfortunately the San Berndardino Line suffers from an illness Caltrain once had, that is, "too-many-damn-stations" syndrome. Caltrain cured its disease with express service. It cut San Jose to San Francisco travel times from an hour and a half to 59 minutes. It operates during rush hour and stops are staggered around the most popular stations. There are also limited stop trains that make less stops than locals but more than the "Baby Bullets."
Caltrain has at minimum 30 minute service all day and hourly service on nights and weekends. Oh, and the usual rush hour service.
I can see the San Bernardino Line becoming the next Caltrain. The improvements Justin Walker posted might bring that to fruition. Maybe?
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Post by Transit Coalition on Jun 3, 2009 23:43:15 GMT -8
The Metrolink San Bernardino Line already runs 20 minute service in the Peak Service direction. As far as double tracking along the freeway, there just isn't room to do so. The MetrolinkMax campaign is designed to ask Metro to allocate Measure R funds to expand late night, mid day and weekend service, as the funding is there. We are just missing the pressure to move the political will. Is there any hope for any real improvements in the next 4-5 years? Metrolink is the most underutilized transportation resource in SoCal. Late night and weekend service shouldn't require any track improvements, but will obviously more operating subsidies. Measure R passed last November. It contains funds to expand Metrolink in Los Angeles County. That includes mid day, night and weekend service. See the MetrolinkMAX website and take action steps as requested. We aren't putting enough pressure on the Metro Board to get them to allocate more funds for Metrolink.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Jun 4, 2009 5:40:55 GMT -8
The San Bernardino Line is a monster of a line that now has hourly service all day. This was accomplished in the last schedule change I believe. Unfortunately the San Berndardino Line suffers from an illness Caltrain once had, that is, "too-many-damn-stations" syndrome. Caltrain cured its disease with express service. It cut San Jose to San Francisco travel times from an hour and a half to 59 minutes. It operates during rush hour and stops are staggered around the most popular stations. There are also limited stop trains that make less stops than locals but more than the "Baby Bullets." Caltrain has at minimum 30 minute service all day and hourly service on nights and weekends. Oh, and the usual rush hour service. I can see the San Bernardino Line becoming the next Caltrain. The improvements Justin Walker posted might bring that to fruition. Maybe? One thing you neglected to research: Caltrain distance between stations is many times 1/2 mile or 1 mile versus Metrolink at 6 miles between stations. The Baby Bullets were put in to make Caltrain more like Metrolink in service spacing. Now perhaps someone on this board can prepare a graphic showing the like spacing and comparative mileage on Caltrain version Metrolink San Bernardino. Also, you should note that Caltrain is in big trouble with a Fiscal Emergency declared. The $10 million budget deficit could be solved with complete removal of weekend service, as that has been proposed. Not good times for CA transit.
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Post by kenalpern on Jun 4, 2009 6:12:57 GMT -8
For whatever reason, a MetroRail line doesn't provide enough political "bling" as does a Metrolink or freight train line improvement in either grade separation or operations.
Which is a big, fat shame. Metrolink just doesn't get enough love by the politicians.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 4, 2009 8:53:31 GMT -8
Is it possible to double track the portion from Union Station past Cal State L.A. or possibly reroute the line and finding another way to serve Cal State L.A. to allow more frequent service in the future? Metrolink apparently thinks it is doable. Shown below is a map of projects Metrolink hopes to complete by 2030. As you can see, all of the single-track segments on the San Bernardino Line are shown as being double-tracked by 2030. Well, this is indeed encouraging. Metrolink must think it is "doable". I'd love to find out what they are thinking.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 4, 2009 8:58:44 GMT -8
For whatever reason, a MetroRail line doesn't provide enough political "bling" as does a Metrolink or freight train line improvement in either grade separation or operations. Which is a big, fat shame. Metrolink just doesn't get enough love by the politicians. It's too late now, but couldn't an offshoot of the San Bernadino Metrolink line from El Monte to Monclair have been promoted as an alternative to the Foothill extension of the Gold Line? If my primary transit trip was heading from the SGV to Downtown, Metrolink sounds like a good deal? Commuter rail in NYC and London go off on main corridors and then branch off in numerous directions as warranted. Granted, it's too late. I'm wondering if there is a way Metrolink can be adapated to have a cheaper, in-county train run to serve those areas it runs through, between both segements of the Gold Line.
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Post by bobdavis on Jun 5, 2009 10:48:07 GMT -8
One possibility (quite remote) would be to rebuild the former Pacific Electric Rivas Cutoff that runs from Orange Ave. Jct. (about a mile east of the Baldwin Park station) to Azusa. The line runs through mostly industrial areas, so there would be little, if any NIMBY trouble; the major concern would be the curves between the tunnel under Foothill Blvd and the remnant of the PE line to Glendora, and how fast trains could run if the track were upgraded with welded rail and main-line-grade ballast. I can envision mid-day shuttles to Baldwin Park and morning and evening through service to LA. This would take some traffic from the Gold Line, but there are plenty of people who look upon Pasadena as their "big city" and go to downtown LA only for jury duty or infrequent special events. If this upgrade were ever accomplished, the track could be extended along Ninth St. east of Azusa Ave., where it would be a short block from the Gold Line station, giving passengers a choice. For some it might be faster to transfer at Azusa, for other, a one-seat ride to LA would be preferable. It would be especially useful to students who live in the northern San Gabriel Valley and attend classes at CSULA.
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Post by whitmanlam on Jun 27, 2009 15:21:38 GMT -8
Has anyone noticed the new rail car they hooked up to the Metrolink trains ?? It's not as tall as your typical Metrolink car, but it's a passenger car nonetheless ... painted red and blue. I've been driving on the 10 fwy and noticed the new car behind the locomotive and four standard Metrolink cars behind that. Does this increase the passenger capacity, and if so by how much ?
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Post by crzwdjk on Jun 27, 2009 16:22:27 GMT -8
Get a picture if you can, but I strongly suspect that it's one of the cars that they bought from New Jersey Transit. The single-level cars have a seating capacity of about 100, but of course getting in and out are somewhat less convenient than on the bilevels, since the steps are just inside the doors. Those cars are also at least 35 years old and are probably just a stopgap until the new order of cars comes in, to meet increased ridership demand and replace losses from various crashes.
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Post by spokker on Jun 27, 2009 18:47:44 GMT -8
Those are the Comet cars they leased from the Utah Transit Authority. They replaced the Sounder cars that had to be given back. They are indeed a stopgap measure and will stay in service until the Rotem cars arrive, I believe.
As far as I know the New Jersey Transit cars are not being used yet and are sitting in Amtrak's yard. I heard rumors that Amtrak was going to lease some as well.
I've taken more than a few rides in the leased cars to and from work and they certainly feel nostalgic. I've noticed that at a certain speed they tend to shake more than usual, similar to the way my old car used to shake at a certain speed. The air conditioning doesn't seem as strong but that's all subjective of course.
But these are old cars and it shows.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jun 28, 2009 17:34:59 GMT -8
I saw the NJT Comet I cars in the Metrolink yard last week. There were only 3 or 4 and they didn't look like they were even being prepped to use. They are still in the NJT livery and aren't even clean. Just gathering dust as far as I could tell. Not sure what's up.
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