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Post by bluelineshawn on May 10, 2010 16:53:53 GMT -8
I don't think the Blue Line crosses Wardlow @ 15 MPH. It seems much faster than that. Ok, but I didn't say "crosses Wardlow". The trains do cross Wardlow at a normal speed, but what I said was regarding southbound trains entering Wardlow Station. The trains slow to maybe 35 when they are under the 405 and then when they get to the Wardlow parking lot they slow again. It seems like about 15 mph to me. This is the only station on the blue line ROW where I see such a marked slowing. Yes, that's true. First it slows or stops as it's crossing the LA River. (I'm guessing that has to do with the maintenance facility.) Then it heads into Wardlow very slowly. Reminds me of the Amtrak train from San Francisco as it arrives at Union Station. Very long and slow arrival. Do you not ever sit in the first car? It stops going over the LA River to switch out operators. And if you stand in the front near the cab you can hear when they get the signal to slow down when heading into the station. It's just as they pass the 405. It chirps if they are over speed.
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Post by metrocenter on May 10, 2010 16:59:17 GMT -8
I usually sit in the rear car. Must be a habit from high school (sitting in the back).
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 10, 2010 17:16:23 GMT -8
I usually sit in the southernmost car because the platform configurations keep that the least crowded car. So it's the rear car to LA and the lead car going home.
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Post by transitfan on May 11, 2010 8:25:47 GMT -8
I always tried to ride in the front car, often to look out what passes for a railfan view on the Blue Line, even if it meant a short walk when leaving the station (back then, the Blue only ran 2 cars, so it wasn't all that far).
Shawn, as far as the speed, the P865s had (still have, I guess) the following speed points: 55,45,35,25,10,STOP. At the stations that had crossings at the front, usually the first speed stop will be some distance from the station, then another closer to the station, then down to 25 entering the station, then down to 10 as the train was nearing the stopping point. At that point, the T/O "calls" the gates by pressing the "primary request" button, the speed signal goes to STOP temporarily while the gates are descending, then once they are fully down, the regular speed signal (usually 55) resumes. You mentioning WIllow s/b reminded me that that station (and Washington n/b) are slightly different, as at that point, the mode switches from speed signals to street running, with a constant speed of 35 mph, so entering those stations isn't quite as slow.
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Post by metrocenter on May 11, 2010 8:47:36 GMT -8
It's great to (finally) see lots of work and activity east of Dorsey High (Farmdale). It looks to me like they are building trackbed around Potomac and Chesapeake, and there are lots of workers and trucks at Farmdale (although not sure what exactly is happening there).
I think the Expo Authority wants to get absolutely as much done as they are allowed to do before the coming approval of the Farmdale crossing. This will help them complete the crossing as soon as possible after that approval comes.
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Post by Gokhan on May 11, 2010 13:49:32 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on May 11, 2010 14:22:28 GMT -8
Metro to FixExpo: You want a safe crossing? You got it. You want a subway through this quiet little neighborhood? HAHAHAHAHAHA.....
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Post by Philip on May 11, 2010 15:51:13 GMT -8
If they're still not happy after all this, I don't know what to say.
It's one thing to have safety concerns, but they're getting preferential treatment over any other at-grate crossing in the city. I'm not even sure most at-grade crossings in the country have that level of supervision.
I'm waiting for someone from East L.A. or Highland Park to yell 'Environmental Racism' in five...four...
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Post by jeisenbe on May 11, 2010 20:21:25 GMT -8
"they're getting preferential treatment over any other at-grate crossing in the city."
I would be happy if every grade crossing got quad-gates and good pedestrian features. But the real preferential treatment is a full-time station in a location that does not justify it. There are no connecting buses on Farmdale, no dense employment centers within 1/4 mile, no significant residential density within 1/2 mile; the High School is the only thing there.
Now, if this station results in up-zoning the area and building more housing, stores and offices, it might not seem like a huge mistake in the future.
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Post by jeisenbe on May 11, 2010 23:29:38 GMT -8
Okay, I made a map of the walksheds of Farmdale and all the other stations from Western to Venice/Robertson: maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=102764232639575421873.0004865e19b119c47cb69&ll=34.025988,-118.341894&spn=0.036065,0.077162&z=14 (I used Google's "walking directions" and dragged the end-point around to find the streets within 5, 10, 15 and 20 minute walks from a station. Generally Google thinks you can walk 4 blocks (400 meters or 1/4 mile) in 5 minutes, which is about right. The walking areas tend to be diamond-shaped, due to the rectangular street grid; the whole "1/2 mile radius" station zone is not as useful, though it does correlate in most areas)
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Post by jeisenbe on May 11, 2010 23:59:09 GMT -8
Farmdale: Here's the whole map: Farmdale adds some area of five-minute walk distance, and a little < 10 minute walk area, but it certainly breaks the pattern of 1 to 1.5 miles between stations along Expo.
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Post by metrocenter on May 12, 2010 12:04:23 GMT -8
I think the area should be upzoned immediately. That's the only way this station will make sense. I have to copy this quote about L.A. NIMBYs, It's from a comment on an la.curbed.com post about the proposed $3 billion development around the Universal City station (Red Line). "I'm sympathetic to long time Angelinos who thought they were living in a temperate version of Phoenix, but fact is L.A. has reached the point of no return. Either expand the tax/job base or die. NIMBY's are the executioners of a viable economic recovery." The economy is in the dumper, and we're going to turn down development and jobs around a subway station??? The future of L.A. no longer belongs to the anti-growth NIMBYs. The tipping point has been reached. Expand the tax/job base or die.
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Post by rajacobs on May 13, 2010 13:32:16 GMT -8
Regarding Jeisenbe's station walk times, Google is unrealistically optimistic when the walks require crossing of major streets. I've timed the walk (at a quick pace) from the La Cienega station northward to the east side of La Cienega at Cadillac. This is a minimum of 25 minutes. Google would have us believe that the walk time is less than 20.
Google's undue optimism should be factored, reducing the distance estimate by 20%, if we use Google to estimate walk times when a given walk includes crossing a major street such as Venice.
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Post by jeisenbe on May 14, 2010 0:03:52 GMT -8
Rajacobs, good observation. I've noticed that the number and quality of street crossings does not effect the "walk time"; it's really just 10 minutes per 1/2 mile. Also, that speed is a little quick for kids, pregnant women, the elderly, etc; in those cases you might want to increase the listed time by 50%. But I do think the diamond-shaped areas give a better idea of the real reach of a station than the unrealistic circles used in planning documents.
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Post by Gokhan on May 14, 2010 18:10:21 GMT -8
The previous Dorsey meeting, which resulted in the CPUC mess, was marked by fanaticism. Our Friends 4 Expo members were afraid to speak in front of 500 people chanting "underground." Fix Expo had done an excellent job of brainwashing and poisoning them at that time. This time I expect things to go smoothly but still expect a circus. So, go there, have some fun, and make your public comments. More information on the Farmdale Station, including the environmental document, can be found here: buildexpo.org/phase1_farmdale_grade_crossing.php
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Post by Gokhan on May 19, 2010 21:10:09 GMT -8
As a reminder the Final Battle of Farmdale will take place on June 1. While we expect to defeat the NIMBYs heavily, it's important for all the supporters to show up. NIMBYs will certainly be there. So, be there! buildexpo.org/phase1_farmdale_grade_crossing.phpDate: Tuesday, June 1, 2010 Time: 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Location: Dorsey High School - Library (Second Floor) 3537 Farmdale Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Post by spokker on May 20, 2010 23:38:42 GMT -8
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Post by tobias087 on May 23, 2010 16:59:26 GMT -8
The crossing at 2:45 might give signal designers a heart attack too ;D
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Post by Gokhan on May 24, 2010 22:19:49 GMT -8
The newest thing is that the Fix Expo and NFSR NIMBYs are trying to have the meeting postponed using the NBA finals and the capacity of the library (~200) as an excuse. They are also trying to overturn the CPUC decision that environmentally cleared the Farmdale Station, saying they should do a full environmental-impact report, at-grade can't happen, etc. Meanwhile Expo and LAUSD have now officially settled on the station. They both are fed up with the NIMBYs and CPUC is fed up with the NIMBYs as well: docs.cpuc.ca.gov/efile/MOTION/118368.pdf
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Post by Gokhan on May 25, 2010 10:15:34 GMT -8
Fix Expo says the station will be even less safe than the original at-grade crossing and will kill children and he is trying to kill Expo by trying to gather as many mislead people as he can.Coming to a Head: Expo Line Farmdale StationMonday, May 24, 2010, by Neal BrovermanAs previously reported, the construction authority building the Expo light-rail from downtown to Culver City seemed to find a solution to the contentious street-level crossing at Farmdale Avenue, across from Dorsey High: build a station there (see rendering) that would require the train to come to a complete stop. But the group FixExpo, which wants the line placed above- or underground at Farmdale and other South LA crossings, is not pleased with that idea. In advance of a meeting at Dorsey on June 1 where the California Public Utilities Commission will present a discussion about the crossing and the proposed stop, FixExpo released a statement that referred to the station as a "holding pen" and added, "As stated by former MTA light rail operators, their proposal to add a station to the holding pen is even LESS SAFE than the original holding pen because it further complicates an already insanely complicated intersection. We are going to continue to fight in the courts and in the streets to demand the same level of safety for Dorsey H.S. students as afforded students in Culver City." FixExpo might have an uphill battle to face as Mayor Villaraigosa, County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky, and local council members Herb Wesson, Bernard Parks, and Jan Perry all support the station solution. It should be heated at the CPUC meeting on Tuesday, which takes place on the 2nd floor of DHS at 6 p.m. FixExpo is not happy with that meeting though, and is urging members to bombard the CPUC with phone calls and emails to change the meeting time, date, and place. From their press release, "The current public hearing on the holding pen with the station is scheduled for June 1 at the Dorsey HS 2nd floor library. There are several problems with this date and venue that will challenge the ability of important members of the Dorsey HS and surrounding community from actively participating, including among others: the limited capacity of the library (~100 people), the foreseeable parking challenge (a recital is scheduled in the Dorsey auditorium on the same night), elderly and handicapped access issues (the library is on the 2nd floor), and the potential that the hearing will coincide with Game 1 of the NBA Finals. Scheduling important meetings for a controversial project at times and locations that are unreasonable is a textbook public relations game that is played all too frequently in our part of town."
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Post by rajacobs on May 25, 2010 14:18:18 GMT -8
Am I mistaken or is the atty., Lawrence Heller, who is an advocate for NFSR, the same Lawrence Heller who the LA Times reported on 10 Dec 1987 was appointed the "Special Director for Life of the Church of Spiritual Technology" (CST also does business as the "L. Ron Hubbard Library")? Apparently Heller is also the atty for Author Svces., Inc, which states on its website, "exclusive representatives for master story teller L. Ron Hubbard." I surmise that if this is the same Heller, he is very closely tied to the Church of Scientology.
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Post by metrocenter on May 25, 2010 15:40:23 GMT -8
An insanely complicated intersection? Seriously, these people need to get out more often.
Yes, the Farmdale Uprising will be led by Comrade Goodman, and Chairman Mao himself will declare a holiday in our honor. LOL.
Complete lack of political support? Those are just details, people. Complete lack of evidence of racial discrimination? Lack of a logical argument? Oh, don't think so hard about it. Just get angry!
ROTFLMAO!!! ;D
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Post by redwings105th on May 25, 2010 16:51:08 GMT -8
Wait, what students? The so-called students in Culver City are about half a mile away (maybe longer) from Venice/Robertson Station.
On the intersection thing, I've seen crazier intersections than this one lol.
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Post by darrell on May 25, 2010 16:56:37 GMT -8
This paragraph from the Joint Settlement Agreement (Gokhan's link above, page 10, emphasis added) emphasizes how the station is safer than both the original grade-crossing proposal and a pedestrian bridge: These safety enhancements provided for in the Joint Settlement Agreement transform the at-grade crossing proposal into a superior solution both as compared to previous at-grade plans and as compared to the pedestrian overcrossing option. The safety and policing problems associated with a pedestrian overcrossing are not presented by the at-grade alternative, and the addition of Stop and Proceed procedures, station platforms accessible by convenient ramps, operating restrictions, and other safety enhancements described above all combine to make the at-grade solution proposed by the Joint Settlement Agreement the superior alternative.
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Post by darrell on May 25, 2010 17:07:14 GMT -8
They will have the same level of safety as students in Culver City. And students in Pasadena, who've safely crossed the Gold Line at Glenarm daily for nearly 7 years now.
For those who insist, "children will be killed!", no, there have been ZERO accidental fatalities (one suicide) on the Pasadena Gold Line.
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Post by Gokhan on May 25, 2010 21:12:51 GMT -8
It's crucial for all supporters to attend this meeting, as Fix Expo will try to gather all the fanatics he will have brainwashed and will try to create the same atmosphere at the Dorsey meeting that derailed the Expo Line a few years ago. If this meeting goes wrong, we may never ride the Expo Line. So, please go there and strongly the support the line.
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2010 2:16:43 GMT -8
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Post by darrell on May 27, 2010 9:30:59 GMT -8
Expo Phase I – Coming June 1, “The Last Battle of Farmdale”by Damien Newton on May 25, 2010 ... Damien Goodmon points to two "international rail safety experts," Russ Quimby and Najmedin Meshkati who claim that building a station will make the intersection more dangerous than a simple at-grade crossing. The argument in brief: because the intersection is so complicated, even before the rail line is added, adding a station is just going to make the issue more complicated than is needed. Russell Quimby under cross-examination at a CPUC hearing admitted he had little experience with rail transit (vs. freight railroads); didn't take into account CPUC General Order 143B (Safety Rules and Regulations Governing Light-Rail Transit); hadn't talked with local police, fire, school principals, or LAUSD administrators; and only knew of the Metro Grade Crossing Policy from Rick Thorpe's testimony about it. What is so complicated about the simple intersection of two 2-lane streets? This paragraph from the Joint Settlement Agreement (page 10) emphasizes how the station is SAFER than both the original grade-crossing proposal and a pedestrian bridge: These safety enhancements provided for in the Joint Settlement Agreement transform the at-grade crossing proposal into a superior solution both as compared to previous at-grade plans and as compared to the pedestrian overcrossing option. The safety and policing problems associated with a pedestrian overcrossing are not presented by the at-grade alternative, and the addition of Stop and Proceed procedures, station platforms accessible by convenient ramps, operating restrictions, and other safety enhancements described above all combine to make the at-grade solution proposed by the Joint Settlement Agreement the superior alternative. They WILL have the same level of safety as students in Culver City. And Pasadena, where students have safely crossed the Gold Line at Glenarm daily for nearly 7 years now; there have been ZERO accidental fatalities (one suicide) on the Pasadena Gold Line. Or contrast with Santa Monica, where trains will cross signalized but ungated intersections at 30 mph, vs. Farmdale's gated intersection at 15 mph. The meeting has been moved to the cafeteria, and shuttle service will be provided from parking at next-door Rancho Cienega Sports Center. The CPUC wants this to be finished, as indicated by new ALJ Bushey's appointment last year and push for a settlement.
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Post by metrocenter on May 27, 2010 12:17:01 GMT -8
FixExpo's "tactics" include bringing the battle to "the streets". Hopefully this will get good media coverage. Nothing marginalizes a marginal movement quicker than a protest over a non-issue.
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Post by metrocenter on May 27, 2010 12:23:06 GMT -8
BTW, here is a map of the "insanely complicated intersection": How can anybody with a minimum 8th-grade education possibly hope to traverse such a crossing???
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