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Post by Transit Coalition on Sept 2, 2009 21:59:38 GMT -8
What does your high up friend have to say about when the line will open and what the delay is? First, there are NO delays. For several months the tunnel ventilation system did not work as to specification. This isn't a production line project like cranking out loafs of bread or cars. It is 100% custom and original. So, this plug it in and flip the switch mentality as got to be cut back. If it doesn't work to spec, you've got to tinker and rework the system until it is 100% reliable. Can you imagine what would have happened if the system was rushed to open in June and then their was a ventilation accident in July? The line would be sitting unopened for a year or two while industry experts examined every little failure and the media urged the banning of all tunnels, just like some of the loudmouth politicians. Look what happened to the Las Vegas Monorail. Parts were falling off the trains and the delay was almost up to one year. This same type of screw up happened in Austin in March of 2009. That line still isn't open and the integration testing is finally getting all the parts to work together as a complete system. I did meet with Metro CEO Art Leahy today and we talked about seven weeks of Stress and Pre-Revenue Testing. If the line isn't ready for Stress Testing by mid-September (and that isn't in the bag), then you are looking at a mid-November opening. So, that's what my high-up friend had to say.
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Post by metroman on Sept 3, 2009 8:15:32 GMT -8
I'm really digging that blue before the tunnel. I hope it is an actual part of station design and not just for construction purposes, cause it's awesome. The blue light appears to be a permanent installation. Its used for safety, as a marker, to indicate a tunnel opening. The blue lights are also installed deeper in the tunnel, at each crossover passage. I also think they look cool.
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Post by Justin Walker on Sept 3, 2009 11:58:50 GMT -8
I'm really digging that blue before the tunnel. I hope it is an actual part of station design and not just for construction purposes, cause it's awesome. The blue light appears to be a permanent installation. Its used for safety, as a marker, to indicate a tunnel opening. The blue lights are also installed deeper in the tunnel, at each crossover passage. I also think they look cool. Here is what blue lights mean on the Red Line (I assume it holds for the new tunnels as well): "A blue light identifies the Emergency Trip Stations (ETS) located at each end of a station platform and throughout the subway tunnels. Inside the orange ETS box is a red emergency stop button, telephone and fire suppression activation buttons. Depressing the emergency stop button will de-energize the power for that particular track zone."
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lc
New Member
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Post by lc on Sept 3, 2009 13:02:18 GMT -8
I was coming home today and as I waited for the bus, I saw two trains within fifteen minutes of each other. This is a big deal to me because it had been months since I had seen one. Understandable of course because of the construction work, but I was happy nonetheless. I'm hoping this is a good sign regarding the stress tests.
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Post by metroman on Sept 3, 2009 13:57:04 GMT -8
The blue light appears to be a permanent installation. Its used for safety, as a marker, to indicate a tunnel opening. The blue lights are also installed deeper in the tunnel, at each crossover passage. I also think they look cool. Here is what blue lights mean on the Red Line (I assume it holds for the new tunnels as well): "A blue light identifies the Emergency Trip Stations (ETS) located at each end of a station platform and throughout the subway tunnels. Inside the orange ETS box is a red emergency stop button, telephone and fire suppression activation buttons. Depressing the emergency stop button will de-energize the power for that particular track zone." Yes, that's a good point about the ETS & blue light. Here's a blue light used at an exit. Actually it's a crossover passage. There could be an ETS in the passage-way, I'll have to look the next time I'm down there. Here's a blue light with an orange ETS below it.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 3, 2009 15:58:52 GMT -8
What does your high up friend have to say about when the line will open and what the delay is? First, there are NO delays....I did meet with Metro CEO Art Leahy today and we talked about seven weeks of Stress and Pre-Revenue Testing. If the line isn't ready for Stress Testing by mid-September (and that isn't in the bag), then you are looking at a mid-November opening. So, that's what my high-up friend had to say. Thanks for the info. Of course the line shouldn't open until it's safe. I would think that goes without saying.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2009 19:53:03 GMT -8
Of metroman's Soto Station pics, this one is my favorite:
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Post by erict on Sept 5, 2009 12:53:02 GMT -8
According to the MTA Website the Goldline Eastside trains are currently in testing mode: September 4 - Trains will start testing on September 4, 2009. Testing hours for Labor Day weekend will be from 6am to 3pmTrains are not in service - Do not enter the platform areas. www.metro.net/projects_studies/eastside/construction_notices.htm
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 5, 2009 13:04:01 GMT -8
so..... Labor Day weekend plus seven weeks of testing would equal Oct. 23 or thereabouts. is that correct?
(that's the weekend I'm scheduled to head for Hawaii... LOL)
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Post by metroman on Sept 5, 2009 15:02:46 GMT -8
September 4 - Trains will start testing on September 4, 2009. Testing has been postponed until an engineering issue has been resolved.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Sept 6, 2009 6:19:34 GMT -8
September 4 - Trains will start testing on September 4, 2009. Testing has been postponed until an engineering issue has been resolved. Here is a good example of what does happen when you announce a date and keep screwing up. Media attacks, lack of public confidence and the next rail line maybe developed by someone else: New problems in the development of rail services between downtown and the northern suburbs delay commuter rail opening by another few months.When Austin voters agreed to finance a new 32-mile downtown-to-Leander commuter rail line in 2004, Capital Metro claimed the project would open in spring 2008. Vehicle delivery problems, track issues, and non-compliance between commuter and freight trains on the rails delayed the opening until spring 2009, but the FRA intervened, saying the project was not yet ready to open. Yesterday, the city got even more bad news, with the FRA claiming that the “vital logic” of the train signals was out of whack, causing further delay. Austin, to say the least, is having a hard time welcoming rail into the city. ------------- New construction is never easy. I would take a minute and remind you of the Red Line Sink Hole on Hollywood Boulevard that resulted in the Metro CEO being replaced. There was an order to study completing the Red Line by substituting buses to operate in the subway tunnel between the Valley and Hollywood. I know Jerard and Justin have found evidence of that study in their research at the Metro Library. That is why Lessons Learned is so important.
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 6, 2009 10:19:45 GMT -8
There's no doubt in my mind that construction is tricky, delays are likely and that safety needs to be upheld above all else. The Transit Coalition should be put in charge of PR for the Eastside Extension. However, it's probably not such a great idea to bring up the Hollywood subway sinkhole when trying to explain that there's nothing unusual about the delays on the Eastside Extension. Unless, of course, there's evidence that the two situations are somehow similar. The good people of Los Angeles learned several valuable lessons from that particular incident, including: 1) the MTA can't be trusted to do the right thing 2) subway contractors are either crooked, incompetent or both 3) subway construction will inevitably lead to major disasters. (That third one continues to resonate even today with the Downtown Regional Connector. People in Little Tokyo have long memories and I'm sure more than a few are thinking about the sinkhole when they oppose the subway option.) Of course, the contractor deemed responsible for the sinkhole was fired, the job was finished and everything turned out okay in the end.
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Post by erict on Sept 6, 2009 10:34:25 GMT -8
I do remember the sinkhole well...it was awful. The information on the Gold line East train testing is not an actual press release, but under "construction updates" and seems a bit vague, maybe on purpose.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 6, 2009 10:59:18 GMT -8
Testing has been postponed until an engineering issue has been resolved. Here is a good example of what does happen when you announce a date and keep screwing up. Media attacks, lack of public confidence and the next rail line maybe developed by someone else: ------------- New construction is never easy. I would take a minute and remind you of the Red Line Sink Hole on Hollywood Boulevard that resulted in the Metro CEO being replaced. There was an order to study completing the Red Line by substituting buses to operate in the subway tunnel between the Valley and Hollywood. I know Jerard and Justin have found evidence of that study in their research at the Metro Library. That is why Lessons Learned is so important. I'm all for transparency when public money is being spent. Is that even open for debate? NYCT had to delay the opening of the new South Ferry station when they discovered during testing that the gap was too wide. They had an announced date, they experienced a delay, took a few lumps, yet it wasn't the end of the world. They fixed the problem and the station opened a few weeks later. The San Diego Sprinter had to delay a few times as well. OTOH Phoenix announced an opening date (at least an opening month) almost a year in advance and even with significant problems during testing, they opened on schedule. This type of openness may weaken public confidence in the short term, but is necessary for long term confidence. The public needs to feel that they know what's going on and that their interests are being attended to. If Metro is not open, it gives the impression that they are looking out for their interests or those of the contractor which creates an adversarial relationship with the public. And FTR I work for a very large, international engineering and construction company that is involved in similar rail projects. I don't work on transportation projects, but I understand that construction can be difficult and that ultimately it must be done safely. But frankly, when a project is late (as this one obviously is) those excuses are just empty air. All of that is known in the beginning and it is up to the parties involved to engineer a good design, hire a good contractor, and anticipate delays. Even then shit happens, but you point to what happened. Saying that new construction is difficult goes without saying. But that's why they get paid the big bucks.
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Post by wakko11 on Sept 8, 2009 11:17:20 GMT -8
Thanks Gokhan, This is a very expensive mistake. I want to know the details. Were the faults up and down the entire extension? How much concrete has to be removed? Who's going to pay for it? It seems to me they could have tested a patch. It's kind of a bummer that it will be replaced with asphalt. Asphalt is very ugly as it ages. Have you noticed how it looks on the blue line around Washington? They've filled in the jackhammered out areas with asphalt at 1st and Clarence. Forget about after it ages, the asphalt looks very ugly now. Especially since the cuts aren't even and the asphalt patches are irregularly shaped.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 10, 2009 8:10:52 GMT -8
I watched three trains last night (around 9:45 pm) going both east and west on the Gold Line eastside extension for the length of the route (I followed them in my car). One of the trains tested was 3 cars in length. Looking good!
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Post by rubbertoe on Sept 11, 2009 14:27:30 GMT -8
Late lunch at the King Taco station. No trains running in the 30 minutes (2:30-3:00pm) that we were there. RubberToe
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Post by metroman on Sept 11, 2009 15:47:06 GMT -8
Late lunch at the King Taco station. LOL! King Taco station. Clever, but I doubt Metro would approve. But now that you bring it up, I wonder where are the best places to eat along the extension.
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Post by masonite on Sept 11, 2009 15:58:41 GMT -8
Late lunch at the King Taco station. LOL! King Taco station. Clever, but I doubt Metro would approve. But now that you bring it up, I wonder where are the best places to eat along the extension. For us a little bit ignorant of Eastside geography, what is the real name of the King Taco station?
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Post by losangeles2319 on Sept 11, 2009 16:29:29 GMT -8
LOL! King Taco station. Clever, but I doubt Metro would approve. But now that you bring it up, I wonder where are the best places to eat along the extension. For us a little bit ignorant of Eastside geography, what is the real name of the King Taco station? Maravilla Station
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 11, 2009 18:22:57 GMT -8
They were testing trains today.. read on:
I was on the Bakersfield-Glendale-Los Angeles-Long Beach-San Pedro Amtrak connector bus today.
As usual, they had a short layover at Union Station before continuing south, so I stretched my legs and jogged over from the bus platform to the tracks. Unfortunately, there were no test trains that I could see at the station (this was about 2:40 or so).
Our bus took us south on the 101, which is always a good spot for photographing the entrance to the Gold Line tunnel. No trains there, either.
Our driver then took us on a somewhat different route than usual: instead of south on I-5 to the 710, we went east on the Pomona Freeway to the 710, which took us unexpectedly close to a test train, which was headed eastbound there. I didn't have my camera ready in time. Nuts.
Afterwards, I got out a map and found that the 60/710 freeway intersection is ridiculously close to New Calvary Cemetery and the Eastside Extension passes through there on Third Street.
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Post by darrell on Sept 11, 2009 19:27:38 GMT -8
I saw one- and two-car trains running this afternoon a little before 4 p.m., driving from east to west. Here are three photos. End of the line, Atlantic station, seen out my side window from Beverly Blvd. Note the ticket machines are still wrapped in plastic. An eastbound train begins the turn from 1st Street onto Indiana. This is the photo I've been waiting for: a train passing the new school LAUSD built at the corner of 1st and Mission. You can also see the tunnel portal at far right.
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Post by spokker on Sept 11, 2009 19:58:16 GMT -8
How was anyone able to dodge that train today? Oh, the humanity!
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 12, 2009 7:07:22 GMT -8
I saw the train running on Thursday evening. No pedestrian safety issues that I could detect.
However, the traffic situation on the extended "S" curve, from 1st/Lorena to east of 3rd/Rowan, is horrible. Specifically, it seems like traffic signal priority is being given not just to trains but also to side streets and turn signals, to the point that traffic on 1st Street and 3rd Street is becoming very congested. For example, it took me five minutes just to get through 3rd/Rowan.
Obviously, street running trains are going to impact traffic. And as long as the impact is within reason, I'm ok with that. But in this case I see no reason for the long red lights when there is no train and no cross-traffic.
I just hope this is part of the break-in phase, and will be adjusted soon. Otherwise, the locals are going to hate the train and transform into NIMBYs.
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Post by erict on Sept 12, 2009 11:42:21 GMT -8
I saw the train running on Thursday evening. No pedestrian safety issues that I could detect. However, the traffic situation on the extended "S" curve, from 1st/Lorena to east of 3rd/Rowan, is horrible. Specifically, it seems like traffic signal priority is being given not just to trains but also to side streets and turn signals, to the point that traffic on 1st Street and 3rd Street is becoming very congested. For example, it took me five minutes just to get through 3rd/Rowan. Obviously, street running trains are going to impact traffic. And as long as the impact is within reason, I'm ok with that. But in this case I see no reason for the long red lights when there is no train and no cross-traffic. I just hope this is part of the break-in phase, and will be adjusted soon. Otherwise, the locals are going to hate the train and transform into NIMBYs. ...Or maybe people will decide to take the train instead of driving and waiting in traffic.
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Post by bobdavis on Sept 17, 2009 16:47:37 GMT -8
Any updates on when "live testing" (running on timetable but not carrying passengers) will start? There was an inquiry on Trainorders.com today, with a photo of a test train. My understanding is that there's some kind of Federal "drop dead" date in mid-December--if trains aren't in revenue service by then, Metro loses a large chunk of money.
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Post by spokker on Sept 17, 2009 17:48:04 GMT -8
I saw a Gold Line train last night around 9:45PM on the bridge above the 101 while waiting for the Surfliner to arrive.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 18, 2009 8:37:44 GMT -8
I saw the train running on Thursday evening. No pedestrian safety issues that I could detect. However, the traffic situation on the extended "S" curve, from 1st/Lorena to east of 3rd/Rowan, is horrible. Specifically, it seems like traffic signal priority is being given not just to trains but also to side streets and turn signals, to the point that traffic on 1st Street and 3rd Street is becoming very congested. For example, it took me five minutes just to get through 3rd/Rowan. Obviously, street running trains are going to impact traffic. And as long as the impact is within reason, I'm ok with that. But in this case I see no reason for the long red lights when there is no train and no cross-traffic. I just hope this is part of the break-in phase, and will be adjusted soon. Otherwise, the locals are going to hate the train and transform into NIMBYs. ...Or maybe people will decide to take the train instead of driving and waiting in traffic. I hear you, but at the same time, I'd hate to see this neighborhood become completely unlivable because of the train. The blocks there are pretty short, and cannot handle the long lines of traffic I've seen recently.
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Post by darrell on Sept 18, 2009 9:03:34 GMT -8
Cross-posting this from the Crenshaw thread: Plugged in the actual construction costs of the 1.8 mile tunnel on the under construction Gold Line Eastside Extension project and the 0.5 mile trench on the Expo, extrapolated the costs to 2011 dollars assuming 2.5% annual inflation (which is very generous given this construction environment), and they’re not matching up. Metro should be able to build this line from Wilshire to LAX at $1.8B or just slightly more. The Eastside tunnel is 1.6 miles portal-to-portal (from Google maps) and the Expo underpass is .23 miles portal-to-portal (from FEIS profile). The Eastside Gold Line was bid with two design-build contracts: one for the tunneling and station box excavation alone, the other for everything else. From the April 2004 Metro staff report (Construction Committee, item 23): On February 28 2002, the MTA Board of Directors approved solicitation of a Design-Build contract for construction of the Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension Stations, Trackwork and Systems elements of the Project. The project also includes a Design- Bid-Build contract for the Tunnel and Stations Excavation segment. The final bid amount - for both contracts combined - by Eastside LRT Constructors was $586.8M in March, 2004. If you're using the budgeted contract amount for tunneling and station excavation alone you're not including all of the costs of subway construction. Let's go more into the total capital costs of the Eastside Gold Line. From the FY 2009 FTA New Starts Report, The total project cost under the Full Funding Grant Agreement (FFGA) is $898.81 million. The Section 5309 New Starts funding share is $490.70 million. Here are capital cost categories from the Eastside Gold Line Final Supplemental EIS/EIR, Table 5-1, Year-of-Expenditure Dollars in Millions for LRT Option B (approximately what they finally built): Construction and Procurement Guideways - $210.9 Yards and Shops - $6.3 Systems - $74.1 Stations - $97.2 LRT vehicles and buses - $113.3 Special Conditions - $68.0 Right-of-Way - $37.9 Subtotal - $607.7 Professional Services - $156.3 Project Contingency - $62.3 Total Cost - $826.3 If we add everything under Construction except Vehicles and Right-of-Way, plus Professional Services, the total is $544.8 million. Add the majority of the Contingency and it matches the design-build contract amount. Although, a small portion of Professional Services is not included in the construction contract. For example, on the December 2003 Metro board agenda was a $3.7M contract with Carter & Burgess for Construction Management Support Services in 2004. And I suspect the final agreement between Metro and LAUSD about rebuilding the Ramona High School at 3rd & Indiana is in addition to the FSEIS budget. For estimating the cost of subway construction the Purple Line citation of $500M/mile is the total project cost per mile. Which is approximately the relevant number for a Crenshaw extension north of Expo, a little high mostly in that L.A.'s LRT subway station boxes are shorter.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Sept 18, 2009 12:15:45 GMT -8
Any updates on when "live testing" (running on timetable but not carrying passengers) will start? There was an inquiry on Trainorders.com today, with a photo of a test train. My understanding is that there's some kind of Federal "drop dead" date in mid-December--if trains aren't in revenue service by then, Metro loses a large chunk of money. Nope: No drop dead at all. If the systems don't work, Metro would have to file with FTA explaining steps that are being taking to complete the line. That is it. No financial penalty. Who came up with the load of falsehood? The 5 weeks of Pre-Revenue testing is tentatively scheduled to start Sunday, October 4. And for the fellow board member who said the line is "late", I got the official confirm that that statement is not true. The line is in "testing". When tests are successful, the line goes to the next step. When the line fails "tests", you fix the problems. If the line were late, the would be contractual damages. The line was delivered on time. We are lucky to have a staff that works to test everything to make sure things work and are safe for all riders from the day revenue service starts, which could be Monday, November 16, but again there are factors that could get in the way. The CEO is shooting for mid-November.
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