Construction Updates

[whitmanlam]

Actually, I think there's an old ROW that leads to Washington / Whittier and it is currently being turned into a jogging path ?? What's up with that ??

[hooligan]

whitmanlam said:

Actually, I think there's an old ROW that leads to Washington / Whittier and it is currently being turned into a jogging path ?? What's up with that ??

yup its true unfortunatley .It goes all the way to Beverly Blvd there's an existing bridge over the 605 and one in whittier over the Five point. That old rail bridge above the five point would have made a really cool looking station.

[James Fujita]

oh well, a jogging path is better than a row of really skinny apartments or a self-storage business.

as the rail-to-trail folks are fond of telling us, at least a path can be converted back to a rail line.... eventually.

[newton]

Any idea how many people will actually use the jogging path? Is it wide enough for foot or bike traffic?

[antonio]

Just to show what a transit nut I am I check this thread almost daily from 3,000 miles away in exurban New Jersey because I am so excited for this line connecting the area where I grew up to the area where my family grew up. That it is still two years away from operation is to hard to stomach so I need updates (which Metro has been horrible at giving) and photos. When the GL was being built not only did I experience construction every day (living in Mt. Washington, going to school in Pasadena, and doing stuff everywhere in between) but I also had the opportunity to follow it online very frequently to cover the parts I didnt see often like the 210 segment or Chinatown. It's a shame that East LA and Boyle Heights residents only feel the disruption of construction and don't get to take pride in it because Metro is not as together as the PGL Authority and doesnt provide frequent photo updates so I think it would be good for people to take pictures along the line whenever they get a chance. I come home briefly for Thanksgiving and will check it out if i find time but when I am home for the winter I plan to take lots of photos of construction. If anyone wants to start a photo thread before then I would appreciate it.

[kenalpern]

There is something to be said about a local construction authority to encourage local "ownership" in projects like Expo and Eastside LRT's.

[Mac]

About the photos: I would take pics, but I never carry my camera around,(only when I'm on vacation), plus I'm also pretty busy. But if anyone wants to post pics, feel free to. Metro was constantly taking pics at the start of the construction, now they've taken them down I think, since I can't find those pics anymore.

[antonio]

Yah I remember those pics being up. Now that the line is really starting to take shape this would seem a much better time to have construction photos. Another thing the old Gold Line site had from the start was several station renderings and neighborhood maps while all but Atlantic and the subway stations are just one small image. The Foothill extension website, in case anyone hasn't seen it lately, already list the station artists, renderings, and exact geographic locations of the proposed stations and who knows when that will even get built (soon I hope, at least to Azusa)

[Mac]

Yep that line is sure taking shape. They are putting down rails, and making good speed. But the last time I saw Little Tokyo Station was when it looked like a nuclear bomb just exploded. Its looking better now think

[rayinla]

Are any "fixes" planned for the crappy connection between the Gold Line and Red/Purple Line at Union Station?

I took a trip to Pasadena on Saturday afternoon and despite being first off the Purple Line train and making a beeline for the Gold Line Platform (at a very brisk walk), I still arrived just as the train pulled out of the station. (And the same thing happened in the reverse when I returned from Pasadena.) While the 10-12 minute wait is not such a big deal, it wouldn't have been necessary if they either (a) timed the trains better or (b) created a more direct connection between the two platforms.

My biggest gripe with Metro is not with the service itself (which is decent if not stellar) but that it is so user UN-friendly. l'm not convinced that anyone at Metro actually rides the system or they'd address some of the minor changes that would make major improvements to the patron experience.

[erict]

There was a plan to shorten the distance needed to walk from the Gold Line platform to the Red line ---not idea what happened to that (The LAUS Run-Through project).. Other than that there does seem to be a disconnect between the lines. If the system could tell you when the next train is arriving it would be nice.
www.thetransitcoalition.us/RedLine.htm

[kenalpern]

I very much agree that this system isn't nearly as user-friendly as it ought to be, but I predict that--as more use the lines--the system will accommodate to the increased numbers of people using it. The problem is that we're doing everything we can just to pay for the increased truncal lines of Eastside and Expo...and still just studying the Downtown Connector, Crenshaw and other key lines...so that it won't all come together until 2010-15.

Bummer!!!

[Mac]

I still don't get why they just couldn't make an elevator that would take you straight down to the Red Line.

[tonyw79sfv]

Contruction on the Gold Line station at Union Station was "done on the cheap". All Metro did was take an existing pair of tracks (1 & 2), and make it the platform for the Gold Line. With all the fiasco that hindered our Rail renaissance: Waxman's tunnelling ban, the Red Line sinkhole, City sales tax on tunneling ban, the Robbins Bill, the quality of new lines tanked, specifically the Gold Line and Orange Line (was suppose to be light rail). The original plan was to allow passengers to transfer to Pasadena from 7th/Metro Center from the Red Line; which was the original Gold Line plan, known then as the Pasadena Blue Line extension, that would have extended the Blue Line tunnel towards the current Gold Line tracks to Pasadena. The current situation with putting the Gold Line at Union Station was a best attempt at getting the Pasadena Gold Line to connect to the rest of Metro Rail without resorting to more tunneling (which was banned from being financed by city taxes by construction time). Think Gold/Red transfers are bad? You haven't seen Orange/Red, you have to cross the street to make the connection. That too was a compromise when the Red Line came to an abrupt stop at NoHo. If Metro Rail construction went ahead with the same vigor of the 80's/early 90's, we'd have 7th/Metro Center style transfer stations at every line junction. This is indeed a sad irony; the best transfer station is the oldest in our Metro Rail system.

[roadtrainer]

;D Does anyone have any news on the latest construction of the 101 flyover, like Bart? Can you go to the Gateway building on get a picture of the rails being laid down on the flyover? Have they connected the rails to the existing Goldline tracks yet? That would be very exciting news!
Bart old buddy Hook us up with some pictures!!! ;D

Sincerewly The Roadtrainer

[snuffy]

I got christmas card from the gold line construction authority
that was really nice! happy holidays!

[JerardWright]

LA said:

Gold Line work upsets East L.A. merchants

MTA officials say the light rail line will bring prosperity to businesspeople.
By Jean-Paul Renaud, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 27, 2007

The Gold Line extension into East Los Angeles promises to carry development and prosperity into an area long troubled by poverty and blight.

But some business owners along the neighborhood's busy 3rd Street, where a large section of the six-mile, above-ground rail line is being built, say the roadwork and street closures have all but halted commerce in the area. Some merchants say they have been forced to skip rent payments and lay off employees. They even wonder whether they will be around to see the train whiz by.

"The worst that I can remember was the El Niño year . . . but it was nowhere as bad as this," said Fred Lane, whose E.L.A. Hand Car Wash has been in his family for three decades, and in the neighborhood for more than half a century.

Lane said he had lost more than a third of his business since construction began last year.

"I don't know what's going to happen, to be honest with you," Lane said. "I'm just trying to make it to my next mortgage payment. I'm basically running the carwash at a loss right now and begging other family members for help."

But the pains of growth will subside -- and business will blossom -- once the tractors and bulldozers are finished and the Gold Line opens, proponents of the light rail line say. And public funds are available to help businesses through these tough times.

The $900-million project officially began more than three years ago with the burrowing of a tunnel in Boyle Heights. In East L.A., work began about a year ago along 3rd Street, where trains will glide down the center of the three-lane roadway.

When completed in 2009, the line will traverse more than 15 blocks on 3rd Street, then head north on Indiana Street before turning east onto 1st Street, eventually disappearing into a tunnel under Boyle Heights until reemerging near Little Tokyo and into Union Station. The extension will connect the neighborhoods to a 73-mile network of light rail and subway that crisscrosses the county.

But the economic damage to markets, restaurants and barbershops affected by the construction -- about 90% of the businesses are running in the red, according to Chamber of Commerce officials -- has some leaders in the area questioning the benefits of the upcoming rail line.

"The iron horse is roaring through East L.A.; it's in the name of progress, but it really does amaze me how much of a rupture that it is going to be for East Los Angeles," said state Sen. Gloria Romero (D-Los Angeles), whose district includes the businesses along 3rd Street. "It's a bit frightening. You almost have to stop and think, was this the right thing to do, to run it through here?"

Romero was among a group of political leaders who fought for the Gold Line extension. Some of those who stood by her at the groundbreaking three years ago, however, still believe that the rail line ultimately will be good for the community.

"It is proven to be the case almost anywhere else where you build this kind of light rail system, it does create an opportunity for businesses to flourish," said Los Angeles County Supervisor Gloria Molina, who represents the area.

Molina added that not everyone is unhappy: "There are businesspeople who have been there for a long time and want it to stay exactly the same, and there are others who look forward to the Gold Line."

Yvette Robles Rapose, community relations manager for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the agency that is building the line, agreed.

"The only thing that's going to be different between having no train and having a train is that there's going to be an influx of people coming to the Eastside that have never been there before," Robles Rapose said.

"They're going to shop there, they're going to eat there, and they're going to provide opportunities that were never there before the train came," she said.

Robles Rapose has a $250,000 advertising budget this year to help businesses let customers know that they have not closed up shop. The MTA has printed banners and fliers and even set up an online-buying website for a store that sells uniforms.

According to data provided by the county, 129 merchants in East L.A. have complained to the MTA about the loss of business since construction began. Of those, 115 businesses have accepted some help from transit officials.

"Is it inconvenient? Yes, it's inconvenient," Robles Rapose said. "Is it going to change the face of the community? Yes, but only for the better."

Some business leaders, however, fear that the area's economy won't survive much longer -- no matter how many banners are raised or websites set up.

"I think unfortunately, a lot of these businesses are going to leave and not come back because the losses are going to be so great they're not going to reinvest in that area," said Gustavo Camacho of the Greater East L.A. Chamber of Commerce.

"I don't think everyone at the end of the day comes out winning," he said. "I don't think it's going to have fruitful results. In essence, it's going to hurt local businesses in the area."

Merchants in other parts of the city have faced similar challenges when rail-building projects rolled through their neighborhoods. In the 1990s, some businesses along Wilshire Boulevard didn't survive subway construction through the Mid-Wilshire area. Even the Walk of Fame was damaged when workers dug under Hollywood Boulevard as they constructed the Red Line.

But merchants in East L.A. said the sting of progress is even more painful here, an area that was struggling economically before the construction started.

"The people are different, the businesses are different," said Rocki Esparza, owner of Manny's El Loco Restaurant. "People that have businesses here are barely surviving."

Esparza's fast-food Mexican eatery has been on the corner of 3rd Street and Atlantic Boulevard for 16 years, building a regular lunchtime crowd of neighborhood residents and area workers.

Large concrete barriers and small orange cones along this section of the construction zone have limited access to the restaurant's parking lot -- turning a once lively spot where seating was scarce during peak hours into a place with plenty of empty tables.

Esparza has turned to catering events and delivering food to homes, as well as laying off two of her 10 employees.

"I think I've lost my customers, and I don't really think that they'll be back," she said. "The only reason I've stayed in business is because we've been well-rooted. But I've depleted my savings, and I'm wondering about my future."

[kenalpern]

I saw that article, Jerard, and both recognize that there's short-term pain and long-term gain to be had with this project (like all projects).

Not for a second, though, do I believe the area will fail to recover. Quite the opposite, frankly!

[Mac]

I'm believe for sure that ELA is gonna recover very quickly. The Gold line is just gonna make the economy there better than it was before.

[nickv]

I remember watching a news story on the I-405 & 101 interchange construction project several years ago and heard comments from store owners that there will be bad days in the short run, but were optimistic that there will be a strong gains once the project was done.

[art]

I also agree with the sentiment that these overall corridors and retail districts will profit from the goldlineinthe long run. And i think it is appropriate to look this situation over in great detail in an objective manner, becuase it gives us opportunity to improve what we build and will ride for the next century.

But I also think this situation is what happens when you place a poorly designed alternative in community with meager resources to begin with, and should be a lesson for future rail construction in denser portions of LA county(meaning goldline future construction and alignment). I, and other locals, have noticed a very heavy hand by the construction process, and a much stronger lack of regard for mitigating community damage by this project. First off, by fact of fiscal necessity to put the rail line in some tight and comprimising locations in order to get somehting (anything) in the area, a square peg was being placed in a round hole in various areas.

Many of these areas were neglected by public and private entities for some time, and the roadways were rebuilt in a total inhuman and auto-appeasing manner. This aesthetic design led to a more auto-oriented development phase (up until now, note even the new starbucks on 3rd, which is a drive thru), making for a much rougher fit for a LRT line, especially at grade. The very fact that these commercial strips were rebuilt in an unhuman way is what enticed rail designers to align it in this fashion, as many of the stretches the goldline will run through are the few non-vibrant (or at least not packed with pedestrian activity) areas in the ELA community. The rail line runs down the most sparse areas, such as along a cemetary or the least dense E/W corridor in ELA, in order to create a viable railway at the expense of providing better and more convenient service, for political and economic reasons. For this reason the goldline will never be able to service the area in the most efficient manner, although becuase of ELA's demographics it will still garner high ridership. So in essense, the railway being built where it is was a double edged sword; it enabled construction and funding to be possible at a pragmatic level, while passing by the most important activity centers becuase of the need to place it in the least destructive/expensive alignments at a functional level.

With the exception of the big church and a few random pockets of street fronting storefronts, the areas of 3rd and 1st where at-grade rail is going has been redeveloped in an autocentric manner, meaning people are used to this portion serving auto and not having a big railway or other auto impediment existing (ergo the car wash situation). Previous freeway detour routes (becuase they were not packed like the other E/W corridors and had fewer intersections/lights) that had 2 lanes each way and ample parking are now tightly packed with a railway in the middle and crossings I fear will become deadly over and over again.

Because of this, it is imperative for the MTA to discuss this situation, and apply the impacts and reality to notions of where the future extension will go. This whole predicament (and mind you, I still am enthused about it becuase I think the positive will far outweigh the negative) is why I have not abandoned and wholeheartedly support a Whittier Bl/7th redline subway extension and the at-grade LRT goldline future extension running thru more sparse (but still ridership potential filled) portions of the SGV. It's like saying we should run the expo line down Vermont becuase it seems more conomically feasable at the moment, despite the fact that an HRT extension is much more appropriate and service functional in the area.

And let me note another topic that I have not even touched (and gets a lot of rolling eyes): transportation equity in design and construction. I have not seen the same "light treading" behavior by the MTA in ELA that I saw in SouthPas (even in the goldine, things were much more dysfunctional in Highland Park than in Pasa, which leaves us with the alignment/trip speed troubles on the line today), and it shows in the effects of the line's construction on the surrounding community. This is not some agenda, it is fact and must be discussed and analyzed in order to improve how and where we build future rail lines. I stood and disintegrated the arguments of overzealous idealogues foaming at the mouth about some abandoned cemetary plots at ES goldline meetings, and I have stopped many a BRU member in their dogmatic tracks. But it is time for us to look at our construction and rail design process in a comprehensive manner and work on improving the negatives for future rail projects.

That being said(and a bit off the ES goldline subject) I appreciate and support Damien goodmon's postion and work with expo, despite my belief that it is WAY too late in the game; this is a big part of why I am voicing this now about future ES goldline projects and stood quiet as the current line is built despite its many flaws. I would bet that the MTA will bend over backwards for Cheviot hills and the (much more accomodating) Santa Monica, despite the basic "its too late" attitude about the farmdale crossing and the lack of quad gates between USC and Crenshaw. I find it a bit disconcerting that the MTA can find money to build ridiculous extra things for USC but a valid alignment issue like farmdale, that should really have been caught by those building and designing the line in the conceptual stage, has been passed over due to logistical concerns about getting the line built. I remember working around the Dorsey HS area when the expo line was gaining traction for funding and prelim studies and noting the guys drinking at the tracks near La Brea and the kids fooling around the ROW near the HS, and thinking "man I hope this portion is elevated" off of a few visits and a pragmatic understanding of the surrounding community. No, this is not appeasing a few "darmin award" candiates who should know better, it is a building a rail line to suit its surroundings, which seems to get glossed over in our poorer communities. Things in the ghetto are different than the norm, just like smarmy residents of a wealth enclave being able to stall a line for over a decade, and both situations should recieve equal atention and mitigation.

[masonite]

What about the underground stations? Are they at least in a dense area worthy of public transit. It seems a shame to build underground stations and not have it serve a dense walkable area.

[art]

^
Yeah they are very dense, older more pedestrian areas with densities well above 20k/mile. Because of that density, and the fact that the alignment is underground where the surrounding environment is the most dense, I always wondered why they did not push the subway ROW 2 block north to Chavez for a short stretch to make the Soto stop at Chavez, which is a much larger destination that 1st/Soto. My guess is they want to also service Roosevelt HS which is just east of 4th and Soto. I had hoped they would include some sort of Ped tunnel north to at least Michigan to make Chavez closer, the neighborhood there is rough and you must walk uphill to get to the old Chavez shopping district.

The areas where it is much more dead is where the at-grade alignments are located, and is part of the reason the alignment goes where it goes (in order to minimize cost). The 1st street area in once dead Little Tokyo, the semi abandoned area around where Aliso Village once was, the strip of 3rd east of Indiana to the eastern terminus. These areas have pockets of activity but are generally redeveloped into strip malls and auto shops. My main worries are past the eastern portal where the train runs in a totally wrong location (or at least a very bad fit) on 1st between Lorena and Indiana. It seems as if the MTA glossed over very easy mitigation measures, like pushing the alignment on 1st between Lorena and Indiana on the south edge of the shops on the south side of 1st, or putting the alignment due south from Union station (rather than curving west to Alameda as it does now) to Little Tokyo thru city owned property and empty lots.

[bluelineshawn]

masonite said:

What about the underground stations? Are they at least in a dense area worthy of public transit. It seems a shame to build underground stations and not have it serve a dense walkable area.

You've never been to East LA or Boyle Heights?

[damiengoodmon]

art said:

This whole predicament (and mind you, I still am enthused about it becuase I think the positive will far outweigh the negative) is why I have not abandoned and wholeheartedly support a Whittier Bl/7th redline subway extension and the at-grade LRT goldline future extension running thru more sparse (but still ridership potential filled) portions of the SGV.

If that Wilshire subway extension finally happens, do you think the Gold Line tracks should be removed, dead-end somewhere, and/or be rerouted in a grade separated alignment to another terminus/junction with the Purple Line?

And let me note another topic that I have not even touched (and gets a lot of rolling eyes): transportation equity in design and construction. I have not seen the same "light treading" behavior by the MTA in ELA that I saw in SouthPas (even in the goldine, things were much more dysfunctional in Highland Park than in Pasa, which leaves us with the alignment/trip speed troubles on the line today), and it shows in the effects of the line's construction on the surrounding community. This is not some agenda, it is fact and must be discussed and analyzed in order to improve how and where we build future rail lines. I stood and disintegrated the arguments of overzealous idealogues foaming at the mouth about some abandoned cemetary plots at ES goldline meetings, and I have stopped many a BRU member in their dogmatic tracks. But it is time for us to look at our construction and rail design process in a comprehensive manner and work on improving the negatives for future rail projects.

That being said(and a bit off the ES goldline subject) I appreciate and support Damien goodmon's postion and work with expo, despite my belief that it is WAY too late in the game; this is a big part of why I am voicing this now about future ES goldline projects and stood quiet as the current line is built despite its many flaws. I would bet that the MTA will bend over backwards for Cheviot hills and the (much more accomodating) Santa Monica, despite the basic "its too late" attitude about the farmdale crossing and the lack of quad gates between USC and Crenshaw.

I appreciate the support. I find myself laughing at those who confuse concerns with design discrepancies (I don't like using the R-word, but it is what it is - environmental racism), with anti-rail BRU claptrap. The issue is only confusing to those who make it so.

Just a little history for everyone:

In 1994, in response to residents and stakeholders vocal concern about the safety and environmental impacts of the Expo Line, the MTA studied grade separated options in their EIR, including subterranean through all residential areas and grade separations at every major street. By 1999 when the most recent DEIR began those option had been taken off the table.

In 2000, after the communities between Robertson and Sepulveda voiced community opposition to the project MTA voted for the DEIR to ONLY study the Venice-Sepulveda detour route. In that same meeting they voted to study a trench at USC from Figueroa to Vermont.

In 2002, an Expo Line South LA community member went before the MTA board to present and request study of a trench alternative through South LA next to the residential communities. He was dismissed and it was never studied.

In 2007, a Cheviot Hills community organization presented and wanted studied a trench alternative through Cheviot Hills. It will be included in the DEIR for Phase 2 with the support of local elected officials.

And oh yea, in 2005 both the Expo and MTA board voted to extend the La Cienega overpass beyond Ballona Creek, and temporary station at Wesley/National to prevent the the tracks from crossing Washington/National at-grade en route to the always intended station and phase 1 terminus Venice/Robertson, with objections from MTA's staff by the way.

I am late. But there were many others before me that were completely ignored. Unlike the MTA and my elected representatives, when presented with the problem I studied it, intensely, and looked at ways to fix it, and have gone out and now tried to make it happen. It's late. But its far from too late. The blame for any delays or cost overruns lies squarely on those who are paid to design a good product, and those when presented with problems and concerns stood silent.

As for 4-quad gates, LADOT, PUC and Expo all agree they aren't feasible between Downtown LA and Arlington. It's a design and traffic circulation issue. So the choice in those sections, and at Crenshaw was: grade separate or at-grade with no gates.

[art]

"If that Wilshire subway extension finally happens, do you think the Gold Line tracks should be removed, dead-end somewhere, and/or be rerouted in a grade separated alignment to another terminus/junction with the Purple Line?"

The extension of the purple line down 7th/Whittier does not affect the goldline whatsover. In fact, the extension of the Eastside goldline to Whittier Blvd from its currnet eastern terminus would have an effect on its current design, whereas the purple line extension would not. It even seems more logical to have the funding come from some kind of seperate entity or funding package, so that the 2 corridors are not related (I-5/whittier blvd and 60 fwy). Look on the whittier extension thread (the other one in the ES extension topic) page 9, you will see a larger map of the entire alignment concept, as well as it's grade and route in DTLA.

[kenalpern]

Good to see you back on this discussion board and contributing your insights and ideas again, Art!

[masonite]

bluelineshawn said:

masonite said:

What about the underground stations? Are they at least in a dense area worthy of public transit. It seems a shame to build underground stations and not have it serve a dense walkable area.

You've never been to East LA or Boyle Heights?

Only a few times. It is the part of the city that I am least familiar with as I know South LA and everything from the ocean to the LA River quite well, but haven't ever had too much reason to go there. With the Gold Line opening it will give me an opportunity to check it out.

[art]

when the ES Goldline opens, I promise to all interested that I will conduct a food tour. Every station has something great within walking distance. And thanks Ken, finished the most grueling portion of my undergrad program, 2 more classes and I am through! Good to see you holdin down the fort as well, BTW.

[antonio]

Yum. I can't wait for the day when I can take the Gold Line from Mt. Washington to La Serenata (Mariachi Plaza) or to get tamales at Liliana's (Indiana) or to eat at the original King Taco (Maravilla), not to mention my favorite spots in Little Tokyo and the host of other good places within walking distance. On a construction note, Angelenic has posted construction photos.