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Post by Jason Saunders on Aug 10, 2009 13:53:14 GMT -8
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Aug 10, 2009 15:35:31 GMT -8
Let a thousand streetcars bloom.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Oct 14, 2009 12:27:23 GMT -8
Here is a streetcar line I proposed on my blog: There would actually be two streetcar lines using the same tracks on the West and East end, but running on different streets in the middle. Both Lines would run from Union Station to Sunset Junction. Line 1 would run on Santa Monica Blvd. between Sunset Junction and San Vicente. Line 2 would run on Sunset Blvd. from Sunset Junction to the Strip and then south on San Vicente to Santa Monica Blvd. Both Lines would be reunite at San Vicente & Santa Monica Blvd. and then head to Century City via the unused right-of-way in Beverly Hills.
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Post by erict on Oct 14, 2009 12:59:08 GMT -8
I love it - although I think that San Vicente is far to steep an incline for a streetcar to climb, but then again I am not an expert on that sort of thing. I would ride this thing every day
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Oct 14, 2009 13:52:33 GMT -8
I love it - although I think that San Vicente is far to steep an incline for a streetcar to climb, but then again I am not an expert on that sort of thing. I would ride this thing every day If it is too steep on San Vicente, which I don't think it would be, Line 2 could terminate on the Strip near Doheny and just not rejoin Line 1. Or, if the Sunset Strip doesn't want a streetcar, here is a one line version.
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Post by crzwdjk on Oct 14, 2009 18:28:29 GMT -8
I looked at the LA Streetcar proposed alignments and... ugh. They're going for a couplet on Hill and Broadway, which I think is a bad idea, and their philosophy is to make fairly circuitous routes. Streetcar routes need to be bidirectional and as reasonably direct as possible, or else they're just not very useful for getting from point A to point B. Ideally, a downtown streetcar should be planned with an eye to becoming the core section of a larger network eventually. My original proposal from many years ago was to look at the busiest local bus routes and convert those to streetcars. I believe those are the 16, 18, and 30/31, with a line down Broadway forming the core segment of the latter. A streetcar line down Sunset might not be a bad idea either, though Santa Monica might eventually warrant something more substantial (and faster), like a light rail or subway line.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Sept 8, 2010 10:41:37 GMT -8
A fundraiser for the LA Streetcar is supposed to happen later this month. Pricey tickets. Anyone planning to attend?
--
Get On Board! Event Tickets Now On Sale!
Get On Board! Event Tickets Now On Sale
Please join co-hosts José Huizar, Eli Broad, Rick Caruso, and Tim Leiweke for a cocktail reception benefiting Los Angeles Streetcar, Inc., a non-profit partnership.
When and Where
Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:30pm – 7:30pm at L.A. LIVE Target Terrace
Purchase Event Tickets
$1,000/VIP Ticket (includes VIP reception with Co-Hosts) $500/Ticket (includes general reception with Co-Hosts) Tickets can be purchased online or by returning this form (PDF).
Contact Us
Los Angeles Streetcar, Inc. c/o Charlotte Dobbs & Co. 2730 Wilshire Blvd., Suite #550 Santa Monica, CA 90403 Telephone: 310-264-9200 Fax: 310-264-2570 Email: info@lastreetcar.org
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 8, 2010 13:32:00 GMT -8
Eh, I'm not really the big fancy shindig type. If I'm going to donate money to something, whether it's saving the rainforest or electing transit-friendly politicians, I'd much rather donate DIRECTLY to the cause, rather than spend a lot of money on party favors and drinks I don't need ;D (You know, like those ads: "Factory direct to you! We cut out the middleman to save you time and money!") But don't let my grumpy, snarky sensibilities stop you
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Oct 1, 2010 15:45:34 GMT -8
Here's a new video with three dimensional "virtual" streetcars put on Broadway!
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Post by pithecanthropus on Oct 27, 2010 21:56:01 GMT -8
I'm not sure I get the point of all this. While I agree that it would be great if we could do away with buses altogether on the streets where the streetcars would be, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather see our transit funding go to more LRT routes, on their own ROWs as far as practicable.
Since streetcars usually don't have a ROW, maybe it would make more sense to change over to trolley buses in the areas shown on the map. This would be simpler to implement since no tracks would be needed, but (AFAIK) the buses could offer nearly all the advantages of tracked cars. They'd run quietly and I assume have the same acceleration and braking performance as street cars
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Post by James Fujita on Oct 28, 2010 10:22:49 GMT -8
Well, as far as funding is concerned, the downtown streetcar project is looking for funds from all over the place, and will not be funded from the same sources as 30/10. So you won't have to worry about streetcars eating funds intended for LAX, the Westside or the South Bay As far as streetcar vs. trolleybus.... There's undeniably a psychological effect with streetcars. Psychology is important when it comes to convincing people to ride. But there's more to it than that. You'd get a smoother ride with a streetcar. And the design that they're talking about for downtown is the Portland-style low-floor modern streetcar, so the entry and exit would be much easier. With a trolleybus, you'd still have to pay for overhead wiring and new equipment, so I'm not sure how much cost-saving you're really talking about. And streetcar track construction is actually surprisingly fast. I like trolleybuses, having ridden some in San Francisco, but I'm not sure the ones which exist are really designed for the sort of "jump on, jump off" role that the downtown streetcar is intended to fill.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Oct 28, 2010 11:03:21 GMT -8
Since streetcars usually don't have a ROW, maybe it would make more sense to change over to trolley buses in the areas shown on the map. The answer to that is to run these streetcars in transit only lanes.
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Post by James Fujita on Oct 28, 2010 11:46:31 GMT -8
Since streetcars usually don't have a ROW, maybe it would make more sense to change over to trolley buses in the areas shown on the map. The answer to that is to run these streetcars in transit only lanes. Of course, that wasn't quite what Pithe was getting at, but rather the technology used. That's a big issue for some people, who might wonder why use a streetcar when DASH will do? [ Or alternatively, why go subway when light rail will do. Or why light rail when buses will do.... ] Of course, I don't agree with that assessment. I already gave reasons for streetcar vs. trolley bus or shuttle bus in my previous post, I'm not going to repost what I said two posts later... ;D Transit-only lanes address one problem, although you could still have buses, trolley buses and streetcars in the same lanes. It's mixed-traffic of a sort either way.
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jass
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by jass on Oct 28, 2010 16:34:24 GMT -8
But there's more to it than that. You'd get a smoother ride with a streetcar. And the design that they're talking about for downtown is the Portland-style low-floor modern streetcar, so the entry and exit would be much easier. With a trolleybus, you'd still have to pay for overhead wiring and new equipment, so I'm not sure how much cost-saving you're really talking about. And streetcar track construction is actually surprisingly fast. I like trolleybuses, having ridden some in San Francisco, but I'm not sure the ones which exist are really designed for the sort of "jump on, jump off" role that the downtown streetcar is intended to fill. Youre not comparing trolleybus technology and streetcar technology, you're comparing a specific (probably 30 year old) trolleybus in san francisco and a brand new streetcar in Oregon. For example, this 5 door, low floor, electric trolleybus offers all the advantages of a streetcar....but is cheaper. And no rail for bikes to get stuck in. www.proaktiva.ch/trolleybus/photo/hegibach_199.jpg
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Apr 18, 2011 11:44:55 GMT -8
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Apr 18, 2011 22:30:08 GMT -8
I wonder who is going to operate the streetcar should it get built. Metro won't do it since they don't do streetcars. LADOT doesn't want to either even though it's completely in their domain.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 19, 2011 2:59:39 GMT -8
Why do you think that Metro doesn't operate streetcars? They had even offered to operate Angel's Flight at one point. It's going to be either Metro or LADOT and given that Metro already has experienced operators and maintenance personnel, I expect that it would be them. That's been my impression all along anyway.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 6, 2011 12:24:05 GMT -8
There was an editorial in the Downtown News today stating that the Streetcar should be extended to Union Station. I'm all for that. I just wish it were running in transit only lanes.
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Post by carter on Jun 6, 2011 12:28:01 GMT -8
There was an editorial in the Downtown News today stating that the Streetcar should be extended to Union Station. I'm all for that. I just wish it were running in transit only lanes. If that's what they go with -- and I'm not convinced including Union Station is the best option -- then I'd hope they'd run it on Alameda for a few blocks in front of LAUS, and use the oportunity to put in some badly needed traffic calming on the street. In Alameda's current configuration, it totally isolates the station from El Pueblo.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 6, 2011 12:36:35 GMT -8
There was an editorial in the Downtown News today stating that the Streetcar should be extended to Union Station. I'm all for that. I just wish it were running in transit only lanes. If that's what they go with -- and I'm not convinced including Union Station is the best option -- then I'd hope they'd run it on Alameda for a few blocks in front of LAUS, and use the oportunity to put in some badly needed traffic calming on the street. In Alameda's current configuration, it totally isolates the station from El Pueblo. The article also compares missing Union Station to the equivalent of Green Line missing LAX. I think this is way off tangent. The streetcar will interact with Pershing Square and Civic Center existing stations and then the new Grand Avenue and 2nd/Broadway stations when the connector is built, thus anybody who takes the Gold, Red, Purple, Blue or Expo rail lines will easily connect to a streetcar stop. By missing Union Station, the only missed connection is Metrolink or Amtrak passengers. I think DN is just going to the extreme on their opinion of a missing link of Union Station and streetcar. The streetcar should stay in downtown proper...and quite frankly, Union Station is somewhat considered outside of the initial service coverage area...in my opinion.
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Post by masonite on Jun 6, 2011 14:34:07 GMT -8
The article also compares missing Union Station to the equivalent of Green Line missing LAX. I think this is way off tangent. The streetcar will interact with Pershing Square and Civic Center existing stations and then the new Grand Avenue and 2nd/Broadway stations when the connector is built, thus anybody who takes the Gold, Red, Purple, Blue or Expo rail lines will easily connect to a streetcar stop. By missing Union Station, the only missed connection is Metrolink or Amtrak passengers. I think DN is just going to the extreme on their opinion of a missing link of Union Station and streetcar. The streetcar should stay in downtown proper...and quite frankly, Union Station is somewhat considered outside of the initial service coverage area...in my opinion. If that's what they go with -- and I'm not convinced including Union Station is the best option -- then I'd hope they'd run it on Alameda for a few blocks in front of LAUS, and use the oportunity to put in some badly needed traffic calming on the street. In Alameda's current configuration, it totally isolates the station from El Pueblo. I agree that it is overkill to compare the streetcar missing Union Station to the Green Line missing LAX. Remember with the DTC, Union Station won't be quite as important as it is now. Nevertheless, it would be nice if it could get there as well as El Pueblo and given that it needs a maintenance facility, this might have to happen. We just need to find money for it, which is a big problem. I happened to ride the Portland Streetcar last week. It really is nice and shows off Downtown Portland well. Unlike San Francisco cable cars, it seemed as if locals were using the system instead of just tourists like me. Portland doesn't have the traffic we have by any stretch so I hope ours can still work as well. One thing that was unusual was the no fare boarding in the central part of the route and the fact that the stations were sponsored by private entities (something like. 24th Street Station sponsored by the 24th Street Marriott Hotel). A little different and I thought it would bother me more, but since the businesses sponsoring the stations were right next to the station and that boarding was free for most everyone, it didn't seem to be tacky. From my short stay in Portland, it is really apparent how the bike culture permeates. There were a ton of bike shops and bikers in general.
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Post by James Fujita on Jun 6, 2011 14:38:47 GMT -8
I have to agree with LA of Anaheim, I don't think that the streetcar should go to Union Station.
The Regional Connector will link Union Station, Little Tokyo, Bunker Hill and the Convention Center neighborhood, the Red Line also links Union Station with downtown. The Green Line to LAX is not a fair comparison, because Union Station is already well linked into Metro Rail, while LAX has a limited shuttle link.
Besides, the streetcar is not a subway or a light rail line. I'm not expecting fast service, or the very laser-targeted service of the Red Line, I'm expecting smaller-scale neighborhood-oriented circulator service.
If the streetcar has to go north of the 101 Freeway, send it into Chinatown, where you have more of a need in the neighborhood, not a transit hub.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jun 6, 2011 15:15:38 GMT -8
Who do we lobby to ask that the streetcar run in transit only lanes?
The City of Los Angeles or Metro?
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Post by bzcat on Jun 6, 2011 15:54:15 GMT -8
Since the entire route is within the City of LA, I think that's where the lobby needs to happen. Metro cannot designate lanes of street as transit only lane (see the trouble we have to go through on Wilshire?) but City of LA can and has done it before... e.g. Figueroa.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Jun 6, 2011 20:45:22 GMT -8
Who do we lobby to ask that the streetcar run in transit only lanes? The City of Los Angeles or Metro? There isn't anything to lobby for. If you want to understand the process a bit better, then contact the LA Streetcar Team. Maybe, we will get them back to speak at one of our upcoming meetings.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jul 22, 2011 10:31:54 GMT -8
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jul 22, 2011 11:15:13 GMT -8
Anybody else think it's wasteful sending the streetcar to Union Station in the initial project? I think the initial segment should stay between Grand Avenue/MOCA and LA Live! via Broadway/Old Bank. A future extension should go north into Chinatown/Union Station.
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Post by carter on Jul 22, 2011 12:03:10 GMT -8
Anybody else think it's wasteful sending the streetcar to Union Station in the initial project? I think the initial segment should stay between Grand Avenue/MOCA and LA Live! via Broadway/Old Bank. A future extension should go north into Chinatown/Union Station. I'm with you. I don't know how you justify such a diversion up to Union Station given: 1) The additional cost. 2) The additional time added to a train's circulation and thus the operating cost. 3) The fact that anyone wanting to get to/from LAUS can easily do so faster on the Red/Purple Line or the future Regional Connector.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jul 22, 2011 12:03:53 GMT -8
It is just one of the alternatives available. I'd agree that A6 is the best of these three alternatives.
I actually liked C2, the one they eliminated. Crossing the Blue Line tracks is cumbersome.
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Post by rubbertoe on Jul 22, 2011 12:16:56 GMT -8
And the streetcar will stop at 2 Red Line stations, and also hook up with the DC at 2nd and Broadway. Thats in all of the options going forward I believe. The Gold, Expo and Blue lines will all have access to the streetcar at 2nd/Broadway. I'm guessing that would be a very busy getting on point. Presents a lot of business development potential for Broadway going South, which is the whole idea to begin with.
The other beautiful thing is that with a price of a couple hundred million, it will be much easier to swallow than any of the other really big ticket items that we are grappling with. And it could be built in something like 2 years once they start work. If you can get Metro to forget about the 710 Gap Closure (at $780 million), the savings in legal fees alone would pay for the streetcar.
None of the options ever would have gone through 7th/Flower, so we will have to wait till sometime in the future to have 3 rail lines (different tracks) converge at a single point ;D
I'm guessing that cost will keep the first streetcar build out of LAUS, and agree that it shouldn't go there in any case. And also that they choose the 11th St. alignment at the Southern end to avoid the Blue Line crossing. You would still hit Staples, but end up missing out on a more direct path by the Convention Center.
RT
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