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Post by metrocenter on Nov 6, 2009 9:23:52 GMT -8
Could someone give me a few scenarios of how this opposition might play out? If you could rank them for severity of detrimental impact on the Expo timeline and how likely they are percentage-wise to come about, I would have a much better understanding of what is plausible, possible, and unlikely (CA Supreme Court hearing, anyone?). Thanks in advance. I give them (the NFSR NIMBYs in collaboration with Fix Expo) zero-percent (0%) chance of having any impact of any sort whatsoever with their lawsuits. They will just waste their time, effort, and money and add to the frustration with their personal lives, which is the source of their negative energy. To say that rail obstructionists have "zero-percent" chance of any impact on Phase II is overly optimistic. I would say the risk is moderate but significant. Definitely significant enough to get our attention: otherwise nobody here would be even discussing these people. The key player here is the Expo Authority/Metro. It is crucial that they listen sincerely to residents and, where reasonable, mitigate issues that will affect those people. I don't say this because I agree with the obstructionists: I say this because it will deflate their legal and political claim that Expo/Metro is wantonly trampling the rights of the people and violating environmental law. So Expo needs to be diplomatic, even when the NIMBYs are not. (A war against protestors is a political loser, and is also bad public policy.) Of course, whatever Expo offers will not be enough for the most hardcore obstructionists, so they will fight as far as their money will take them. They have a wealthy base of support, but that base will shrink if people see that Expo is being reasonable. I expect to see lawsuits and a CPUC challenge. More than likely, these will be dismissed. The biggest risk, then, is delays to the project. We see what has happened with Phase I. Like Gokhan said, NIMBYs should see the pointlessness of this: who gains from a slightly-delayed rail line?
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Post by erict on Nov 6, 2009 9:34:56 GMT -8
Don't the contractors benefit from the delays - more $$$?
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 17, 2009 17:55:00 GMT -8
Our group Light-Rail for Cheviot has been distributing the following flyer in response to NFSR's outrageous opposition to the Expo Line: And this is NFSR's response to our flyer: "Going Green. I don't think so...
Going green was the politically correct thing to do. But not anymore.
First, it was those green storefronts that showed up in WLA. Marijuana dispensaries that have attracted undesirables onto our streets.
Now it's a green sheet that landed on my doorstep. It suggests that we should lay down our arms and forget about fighting for an underground light rail (see attachment).
Whoever writes this stuff needs to lay off of these mushrooms."I guess NFSR's new slogan is "Death to all the green people." LOL
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Post by Philip on Nov 17, 2009 21:10:53 GMT -8
Excellent flyer, Gokhan. I agree on all fronts.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 17, 2009 22:44:01 GMT -8
Excellent flyer, Gokhan. I agree on all fronts. I guess I had made the right color choice when I printed these flyers on green paper. It helped expose the true face of these people -- antienvironment, insensitive, intolerant are some of the few kindest words that describe them.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 15, 2009 13:03:25 GMT -8
Expo Line in High DefinitionAt the time I recorded this great classic PBS feature on the Expo Line vs. Cheviot Hills/Neighbors for Smart Rail, YouTube didn't have high-definition video upload. I just uploaded the video clip again and now it's available in high definition. If you have never seen it, it's a must-see. If you've seen it, watch it in full-high-definition glory. In any case, enjoy! Instructions: Make sure to click the HD button for high definition and choose 720p or 1080p according to your computer's or Internet connection's capabilities. If you have a slow Internet connection, pause it and wait until it buffers the video and then play. Also make sure to watch it in full screen. You might need the latest version of Adobe Flash Player downloadable at get.adobe.com/flashplayer/ .
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 15, 2009 14:47:34 GMT -8
Here are a couple of snapshots from the great PBS feature above. I'm posting not high-definition but standard-definition pictures, as we are not supposed to post pics wider than 800 pixels here. So, make sure to watch the high-definition video as instructed above. NIMBY parent and her kids: Karen (pronounced Kah-ren) Leonard and Sarah Hays, Cochairs of Light-Rail for Cheviot, walking the Cheviot Hills tracks: Colleen Mason Heller, Cheviot Hills Homeowners' Asscoiation Light-Rail Chair, is the lady standing at the desk, opposing Expo in the video. Benjamin Cates' comments continue as, "Do you think the people who live in Cheviot Hills are going to take this bloody train. No, they are going to get in their cars. The people who are going to use this are the people who work in the hotels in Santa Monica, and they are going to come from the Hispanic areas nearer downtown. Now they take the bus." PBS cut the last two sentences but they were posted in LA Times.
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Dec 15, 2009 19:39:43 GMT -8
That KCET segment was produced 2 years ago before the decision was made to go with the ROW. Advocating for something "good" when it'll cost extra for an authority not flushed with money means no progress or undesirable alternatives are made. This is what happened when a few voices unrepresentative of the whole community degraded the Orange Line to what it is today.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 15, 2009 20:34:43 GMT -8
That KCET segment was produced 2 years ago before the decision was made to go with the ROW. Advocating for something "good" when it'll cost extra for an authority not flushed with money means no progress or undesirable alternatives are made. This is what happened when a few voices unrepresentative of the whole community degraded the Orange Line to what it is today. NFSR's slogan is "Build it right or not at all." They certainly know that if they can push for the right (subway), the project will be killed, hence "not at all." I guess their corrected slogan should be "Can't build right, so not build at all." Bottom line: what is truly right for NFSR is nothing at all.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Dec 15, 2009 21:03:44 GMT -8
^ Wow...just saw myself on this video. I can't believe I was on this thing and they made me look like I was angry about the Expo Line......hahaha (bastards!). I'm at the 3:57 mark in the pink shirt and glasses apparently looking like I'm bi**hing about the Expo Line. Priceless!
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Post by kenalpern on Dec 15, 2009 21:21:45 GMT -8
So the closet NIMBY in you just came out... )
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 6, 2010 21:00:00 GMT -8
Neighbors for Smart Rail is starting the Westworld War:
Expo Update: On Thursday, February 4, 2010 at 2:00 p.m., the Exposition Construction Authority’s Board of Directors will consider a recommendation to certify the FEIR. This meeting will be held in the Board of Supervisor’s hearing room on the third floor of the Kenneth Hahn Hall of Administration located at 500 W. Temple Street, Los Angeles, 90012. Please note that there will be a time limit per speaker. NFSR is moving forward with preparation for this meeting. We are working with our attorney to create our comments to the FEIR that will be presented at the meeting. We need your help to show the board that this community cares enough during these economical challenging times to take off work to attend the meeting. We are trying to get a bus or a reduced parking rate. If we cannot get a bus we should try and car pool. If you are interested in attending the meeting please let us know. We need to decide if we should get a bus or car pool. We know some will want to drive themselves and they will be eligible for the reduce parking rate as well.
As we move forward in the process we will continue to need your financial commitment. We know money is tight but attorneys cost money. After a quick review of the 8,000 plus pages of the FEIR we know the only way we will be heard is through an attorney. We are creating different options that will ease the pain that we will all share to protect our community.
NFSR will be holding a meeting in February to update the community on our long range plan to make sure that this community is properly mitigated from the negative impact Expo AT GRADE will have not only on this area but the Westside.
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Post by spokker on Jan 7, 2010 5:32:29 GMT -8
I didn't know Hitler chartered a bus when he invaded Poland. Very interesting stuff.
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Post by kenalpern on Jan 7, 2010 7:07:55 GMT -8
While I'm sure that I'll have disagreements with at least some of the assertions and paradigms that NFSR will use, I don't think that their legal application of the democratic system we have is appropriately compared to Nazism...especially because there will be no shortage of Jews within NFSR.
I think a better analogy is in order.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 7, 2010 9:09:10 GMT -8
"NFSR will be holding a meeting in February to update the community on our long range plan to make sure that this community is properly mitigated from the negative impact Expo AT GRADE will have not only on this area but the Westside."
This is interesting wording. It suggests that NFSR realizes that at-grade through Cheviot is a done deal, and that "mitigation" is the most they can hope for.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 7, 2010 10:03:33 GMT -8
I didn't know Hitler chartered a bus when he invaded Poland. Very interesting stuff. They had panzers.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 7, 2010 10:05:23 GMT -8
While I'm sure that I'll have disagreements with at least some of the assertions and paradigms that NFSR will use, I don't think that their legal application of the democratic system we have is appropriately compared to Nazism...especially because there will be no shortage of Jews within NFSR. I think a better analogy is in order. Well, this is an abuse of democracy, and being Jewish doesn't give NFSR the right to do so, just as being Black didn't give Fix Expo the right to do so. Thank goodness Zev knows how to handle these few troubled people of his, as bad old brats as they are, just like Parks and Wesson knew how to handle their few troubled bad young and old brats. Zev will tell NFSR to stop whining because Expo will move forward regardless, just as he told them last year during the certification of the DEIR and selection of the route. Yes, I do tend to overdramatize things though. LOL
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 7, 2010 10:09:59 GMT -8
"NFSR will be holding a meeting in February to update the community on our long range plan to make sure that this community is properly mitigated from the negative impact Expo AT GRADE will have not only on this area but the Westside."This is interesting wording. It suggests that NFSR realizes that at-grade through Cheviot is a done deal, and that "mitigation" is the most they can hope for. I can't read much into Terri Tippit's words. I know for sure that they will try to prevent Expo from happening or delay it as much as possible. But I think they mean underground by mitigation when I put in context of their earlier communications. Their slogan is "Build it right or not at all." And by right they make it clear that they mean underground. Certainly this will be a war and it will hopefully be over by the time the preliminary engineering is completed in August so that Expo can immediately start construction in September, as currently scheduled.
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Post by jeisenbe on Jan 9, 2010 14:30:40 GMT -8
NFSR has to charter a bus? Well, good for them. I hope they don't get stuck in traffic on the freeway.
If only there was a nice, high-capacity train that could take them from their neighborhood to Downtown Los Angeles for this meeting...
Nah, that would never happen.
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Post by spokker on Jan 9, 2010 16:15:29 GMT -8
They could take transit to the meeting. Some would have to walk over a mile just to get to a bus stop. I tried some houses closer to the Expo Row in Cheviot Hills and Google Maps says they are out of the service range and won't spit out a route. These people are so disconnected from the city, its people, and reality. They don't need transit, so they don't care. So screw anyone else who does need it or want it.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 9, 2010 17:40:41 GMT -8
They could take transit to the meeting. Some would have to walk over a mile just to get to a bus stop. I tried some houses closer to the Expo Row in Cheviot Hills and Google Maps says they are out of the service range and won't spit out a route. These people are so disconnected from the city, its people, and reality. They don't need transit, so they don't care. So screw anyone else who does need it or want it. There is a Big Blue Bus that goes through Motor Ave, heart of Cheviot Hills. Without it they wouldn't be able to have servants. You are right that the ones who oppose transit consider Cheviot Hills as a rural village and they want to keep it that way. While I respect and agree with their view, what they don't realize is that the Expo Line doesn't go through Cheviot Hills but adjacent to it, and they have no right to try to stop it or ask for unreasonable mitigation like undergrounding. But there are certainly already people in Cheviot Hills who will use the line, and more of them will appreciate it when the line opens. The northern section of Palms, like Motor Ave area and Bagley Ave area, desperately needs transit, and it will greatly benefit from the line. It's residentially the densest area in Los Angeles. The Westwood Station will also be a great station for access to the Westside Pavilion area and for UCLA and Century City connections. Its ridership is the highest along the entire Expo Line alignment. Last but not least, villages have railroads, don't they? That rustic feeling...
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 9, 2010 20:56:18 GMT -8
It's dense, but I doubt that it's the most dense. But who knows, I don't know that I have ever even been to Palms. I don't get over that way all that often. Most populated LA neighborhoods
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 10, 2010 10:30:18 GMT -8
It's dense, but I doubt that it's the most dense. But who knows, I don't know that I have ever even been to Palms. I don't get over that way all that often. Most populated LA neighborhoodsThe neighborhoods west of Downtown (MacArthur Park, Koreatown, Pico Union) are more dense than Palms.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2010 16:35:42 GMT -8
It's dense, but I doubt that it's the most dense. But who knows, I don't know that I have ever even been to Palms. I don't get over that way all that often. Most populated LA neighborhoodsThe neighborhoods west of Downtown (MacArthur Park, Koreatown, Pico Union) are more dense than Palms. Thanks for the great link, bluelineshawn. It's a great resource into LA neighborhoods. While Palms ranks as 8th, I think this is misleading. When the populations are populated, they are a snapshot during the daytime, and they also include businesses and travelers. When I said Palms was the most dense "residential" area, I meant "residential." I'm not aware of any large neighborhood other than Palms that is exclusively composed of apartment buildings. Palms is very unusual in that sense for Los Angeles. So, it is likely to be the densest residential-only neighborhood. All other neighborhoods I'm aware of have a significant percentage of single-family residences. But feel free to point out other large neighborhoods that are exclusively made of apartment buildings (no businesses or single-family residences) as well.
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Post by darrell on Jan 10, 2010 16:54:00 GMT -8
Here are Census tract population densities within 2 miles of the Expo Line. Census tracts 2699.02 (34,086 people per square mile, the blue strip) and 2699.01 (30,872, pink to the right of the blue, should be updated to blue) are in Palms. The other is Census tract 2362.02 (30,495, the left half of the blue area right of "Baldwin Hills"; the right half, 2362.01, lost population with the 2000 Census to 28,579).
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 10, 2010 19:41:55 GMT -8
The neighborhoods west of Downtown (MacArthur Park, Koreatown, Pico Union) are more dense than Palms. Thanks for the great link, bluelineshawn. It's a great resource into LA neighborhoods. While Palms ranks as 8th, I think this is misleading. When the populations are populated, they are a snapshot during the daytime, and they also include businesses and travelers. When I said Palms was the most dense "residential" area, I meant "residential." I'm not aware of any large neighborhood other than Palms that is exclusively composed of apartment buildings. Palms is very unusual in that sense for Los Angeles. So, it is likely to be the densest residential-only neighborhood. All other neighborhoods I'm aware of have a significant percentage of single-family residences. But feel free to point out other large neighborhoods that are exclusively made of apartment buildings (no businesses or single-family residences) as well. If you say that is a "snapshot during daytime".....then why is downtown LA ranked 88 with 4,777? During the daytime, I believe downtown LA would shoot up to # 1, with over 400,000 office staff in the district. Interesting how downtown LA came in so low...
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 10, 2010 21:10:35 GMT -8
Downtown LA has had a lot of growth since the 2000 census. I'd guess they have as much as another 2k people per square mile. Still not dense compared with most of LA, but increasingly rapidly. My guess is that it will double by the 2020 census. Not bad considering much of downtown isn't residential.
I agree that Koreatown is much more dense than Palms. It isn't residential-only, but the residential population is much more dense and over a much larger area.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 10, 2010 23:46:56 GMT -8
While Palms ranks as 8th, I think this is misleading. When the populations are populated, they are a snapshot during the daytime, and they also include businesses and travelers. When I said Palms was the most dense "residential" area, I meant "residential." I'm not aware of any large neighborhood other than Palms that is exclusively composed of apartment buildings. OK, well what you originally said was "It's residentially the densest area in Los Angeles." This is false. In Koreatown/Wilshire Center (which the L.A. Times lumps together), you will find hundreds of square blocks with nothing but apartments. For example, between Western and Vermont, 6th and 3rd, there are nothing but dense apartment buildings. This is by census tract. Note that nearly all the dark green on this map is between Western Avenue and Downtown L.A., on either side of Wilshire Boulevard. The only other census tracts shown on this map with comparable residential density are student housing west of UCLA.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 11, 2010 0:58:35 GMT -8
OK, I didn't realize that section of Koreatown was that dense; so, I guess we could declare it the winner. In fact I had lived near Wilshire and Normandie briefly. The way they defined Palms, they included Westside Village and Castle Heights. These are single-family residential areas, and they are usually not included in the definition of Palms. If you exclude them, I would guess Palms would be easily in top three: projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/population-density/neighborhood/list/
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Post by jeisenbe on Jan 12, 2010 0:19:42 GMT -8
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