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Post by Gokhan on Feb 23, 2012 12:06:13 GMT -8
Confirmed. High noon on March 22. No settlement.
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Post by roadtrainer on Feb 23, 2012 22:11:25 GMT -8
Prediction: Case Denied! ;D NFSR folds, and is out of the Game!
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 9, 2012 15:28:33 GMT -8
NFSR appeal has been denied, at least tentatively. The final decision will be given after the trial on March 22, but, of course, now, it's extremely unlikely for NFSR to be able it to turn it around. This is one of the very few times the press got ahead of us. Here is the news: Westsiders Tentatively Lose Expo Line Phase II ChallengeThe title is stupid because it implies that all Westsiders are against Expo. The author doesn't realize that the only reason Expo is being built is the grassroots push by the Westside supporters! It would never happen otherwise!
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Post by masonite on Mar 9, 2012 15:58:20 GMT -8
NFSR appeal has been denied, at least tentatively. The final decision will be given after the trial on March 22, but, of course, now, it's extremely unlikely for NFSR to be able it to turn it around. This is one of the very few times the press got ahead of us. Here is the news: Westsiders Tentatively Lose Expo Line Phase II ChallengeThe title is stupid because it implies that all Westsiders are against Expo. The author doesn't realize that the only reason Expo is being built is the grassroots push by the Westside supporters! It would never happen otherwise! Looks like they had the wrong date of the trial in the article on Curbed as well as May 22 instead of March 22.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 9, 2012 16:08:38 GMT -8
NFSR appeal has been denied, at least tentatively. The final decision will be given after the trial on March 22, but, of course, now, it's extremely unlikely for NFSR to be able it to turn it around. This is one of the very few times the press got ahead of us. Here is the news: Westsiders Tentatively Lose Expo Line Phase II ChallengeThe title is stupid because it implies that all Westsiders are against Expo. The author doesn't realize that the only reason Expo is being built is the grassroots push by the Westside supporters! It would never happen otherwise! Looks like they had the wrong date of the trial in the article on Curbed as well as May 22 instead of March 22. May 22 is definitely way off. I rechecked it and it's moved to 9 am on March 23. No longer high noon. Resolved without excitement.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 9, 2012 16:10:14 GMT -8
By the way, NFSR will go to the California Supreme Court next, which will be their final resort. They can't stop wasting their money. People like them are how lawyers make a living.
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Post by James Fujita on Mar 13, 2012 14:57:38 GMT -8
I rechecked it and it's moved to 9 am on March 23. No longer high noon. Resolved without excitement. Nope, it's moved from "High Noon" to "Back to the Future III".... as in "I do my killing before breakfast!" ... "I do my killing after breakfast." Also, "Back to the Future" as in bringing a rail line back ;D
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 21:25:33 GMT -8
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K 22
Full Member
Posts: 117
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Post by K 22 on Mar 20, 2012 6:54:11 GMT -8
By the way, NFSR will go to the California Supreme Court next, which will be their final resort. They can't stop wasting their money. People like them are how lawyers make a living. Should they go this far: how long after they file will it take for the court to even LOOK at the case?
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Post by joshuanickel on Mar 20, 2012 7:02:34 GMT -8
By the way, NFSR will go to the California Supreme Court next, which will be their final resort. They can't stop wasting their money. People like them are how lawyers make a living. Should they go this far: how long after they file will it take for the court to even LOOK at the case? In 2016 after the line has opened and becomes the most popular light rail line in Los Angeles.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Mar 20, 2012 7:54:36 GMT -8
What event in LA draws crowds up to 200,000 and has 2 stops on the Expo Line......it's not the Festival of Books.....it's cicLAvia, LA's largest block party! That's on April 15th and will be a much larger trip generator than the Festival of Books. Check out all Metro rail lines during cicLAvia....they are packed!!!
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 20, 2012 8:18:49 GMT -8
What event in LA draws crowds up to 200,000 and has 2 stops on the Expo Line......it's not the Festival of Books.....it's cicLAvia, LA's largest block party! That's on April 15th and will be a much larger trip generator than the Festival of Books. Check out all Metro rail lines during cicLAvia....they are packed!!! It's not a good idea to have a grand opening during a large event. People who are riding the train should be able to enjoy it and a packed train wouldn't allow it. Also, transit riders really hate it when people take bicycles on a crowded train. Shawn was telling me that the targeted opening day is April 16 according to the Metro supervisors. Perhaps they are avoiding cicLAvia on Sunday?
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Post by jamesinclair on Mar 20, 2012 11:56:37 GMT -8
Genius move. Transit is meant to be looked at, not used. Best it be closed during high ridership days, just in case.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Mar 20, 2012 12:44:53 GMT -8
Genius move. Transit is meant to be looked at, not used. Best it be closed during high ridership days, just in case. This is a wise move not to open the Expo Line on cicLAvia day. There will a near 80,000 people just to use the Expo Line. Do you remember the Eastside Extension opening? People waited 2 hours to board the trains. Now, imagine if you have cicLAvia happening....those people with bikes and 100,000 for opening day will be bad for PR. It makes wise sense to open the weekend after, but obviously, for future cicLAvias and other LA events, the trains will be running at high capacity, like they currently increase all Metro rail service during the U2 concert, Laker championships, cicLAvia, etc...
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Post by masonite on Mar 20, 2012 13:51:04 GMT -8
Genius move. Transit is meant to be looked at, not used. Best it be closed during high ridership days, just in case. This is a wise move not to open the Expo Line on cicLAvia day. There will a near 80,000 people just to use the Expo Line. Do you remember the Eastside Extension opening? People waited 2 hours to board the trains. Now, imagine if you have cicLAvia happening....those people with bikes and 100,000 for opening day will be bad for PR. It makes wise sense to open the weekend after, but obviously, for future cicLAvias and other LA events, the trains will be running at high capacity, like they currently increase all Metro rail service during the U2 concert, Laker championships, cicLAvia, etc... Def. agree. Opening this day would be a disaster. Just think some people going to Ciclavia would be waiting hours for Expo and then would miss the event and probably vow never to use transit in Los Angeles ever again. Also, there wouldn't be room for their bikes. Lets hope April 16 can actually happen. Gokhan, thanks for the updates from Thorpe. At some point our questions will go to Phase II and what if any updates there are with that.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 20, 2012 15:28:02 GMT -8
Gokhan, thanks for the updates from Thorpe. At some point our questions will go to Phase II and what if any updates there are with that. You're welcome. Phase 2 still feels so distant in the future.
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Post by jamesinclair on Mar 20, 2012 23:01:09 GMT -8
Genius move. Transit is meant to be looked at, not used. Best it be closed during high ridership days, just in case. This is a wise move not to open the Expo Line on cicLAvia day. There will a near 80,000 people just to use the Expo Line. Do you remember the Eastside Extension opening? People waited 2 hours to board the trains. Now, imagine if you have cicLAvia happening....those people with bikes and 100,000 for opening day will be bad for PR. It makes wise sense to open the weekend after, but obviously, for future cicLAvias and other LA events, the trains will be running at high capacity, like they currently increase all Metro rail service during the U2 concert, Laker championships, cicLAvia, etc... Refresh my memory, but what was the frequency of trains when the eastside extension opened? For expo, have opening weekend offer trains every 3 minutes instead of 12. Crowding shouldnt be an issue.
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Post by masonite on Mar 21, 2012 16:05:20 GMT -8
This is a wise move not to open the Expo Line on cicLAvia day. There will a near 80,000 people just to use the Expo Line. Do you remember the Eastside Extension opening? People waited 2 hours to board the trains. Now, imagine if you have cicLAvia happening....those people with bikes and 100,000 for opening day will be bad for PR. It makes wise sense to open the weekend after, but obviously, for future cicLAvias and other LA events, the trains will be running at high capacity, like they currently increase all Metro rail service during the U2 concert, Laker championships, cicLAvia, etc... Refresh my memory, but what was the frequency of trains when the eastside extension opened? For expo, have opening weekend offer trains every 3 minutes instead of 12. Crowding shouldnt be an issue. Not possible to do that. You would have to shut down the Blue Line to achieve those frequencies and even then there are not enough trains to accomplish this. Don't believe Expo can ever get below a 5-6 minute headway as it wasn't designed for this (this is street running light rail in many portions - we can't pretend this is grade separated subway). Even our subway couldn't get to those headways without major systems upgrades.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 21, 2012 18:24:55 GMT -8
Refresh my memory, but what was the frequency of trains when the eastside extension opened? For expo, have opening weekend offer trains every 3 minutes instead of 12. Crowding shouldnt be an issue. I think that it was somewhere around 5-7 minutes, but I can't recall either. Expo will need to run every 6 minutes if it opens on the weekend and that's the max that it can run unless they cut back on the blue line. If Expo instead opens on Monday the crowds would obviously be much less and they could probably just run the normal 12 minute service. Then they could still do a more celebratory event the following weekend to a smaller crowd.
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Post by bobdavis on Mar 21, 2012 20:56:38 GMT -8
It's not a case of "transit is there to be looked at, not ridden"--it's just not a good idea to have opening day coinciding with another big event. I remember helping with public relations when the San Jose/VTA system opened it's downtown segment in 1987 or 88. In mid-afternoon, one of the cars "snagged a pan", causing overhead damage north of downtown. Imagine if some other event were going on, trying to get the line trucks deployed and the wire repaired. Also, moving the official opening away from a CicLAvia (or Marathon) or other big attention getter, the opening should get more thorough media coverage.
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Post by jamesinclair on Mar 22, 2012 1:22:02 GMT -8
Refresh my memory, but what was the frequency of trains when the eastside extension opened? For expo, have opening weekend offer trains every 3 minutes instead of 12. Crowding shouldnt be an issue. Not possible to do that. You would have to shut down the Blue Line to achieve those frequencies and even then there are not enough trains to accomplish this. Don't believe Expo can ever get below a 5-6 minute headway as it wasn't designed for this (this is street running light rail in many portions - we can't pretend this is grade separated subway). Even our subway couldn't get to those headways without major systems upgrades. Its a Sunday right? Gold and Green dont need the cars, expo and red do, for the event. Blue needs them, but not as much. Im sure shuffling could be done. If youre building a brand new light rail line in 2012 and 6 minutes is the absolute best you can do, then your engineers fail at life. I simply dont understand how systems like mexico city can operate every 90 seconds, how the 100 year old green line in Boston can operate literally bumper to bumper, but LA cant do better than 6 minutes? 6 minutes is an eternity.
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Post by masonite on Mar 22, 2012 7:04:59 GMT -8
The Gold Line is not connected to Blue or Expo. How do you expect them to suddenly use their cars on Expo?
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Post by matthewb on Mar 22, 2012 7:49:33 GMT -8
The Gold Line is not connected to Blue or Expo. How do you expect them to suddenly use their cars on Expo? I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of moving cars from the gold line, but I definitely have seen pictures of light rail cars on the back of a trailor being driven to where they would be set down on the track.
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Post by matthewb on Mar 22, 2012 8:40:01 GMT -8
The Gold Line is not connected to Blue or Expo. How do you expect them to suddenly use their cars on Expo? I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of moving cars from the gold line, but I definitely have seen pictures of light rail cars on the back of a trailor being driven to where they would be set down on the track. here.
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Post by masonite on Mar 22, 2012 12:45:58 GMT -8
I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of moving cars from the gold line, but I definitely have seen pictures of light rail cars on the back of a trailor being driven to where they would be set down on the track. here. Of course it is possible. Not really realistic to do this though from a cost standpoint, especially just for one day and then back.
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Post by wad on Mar 23, 2012 1:36:47 GMT -8
Its a Sunday right? Gold and Green dont need the cars, expo and red do, for the event. Blue needs them, but not as much. There will be people on those lines that have ridership needs as it were a regular day, even if they're not going to the opening. You wouldn't want to take away trains.
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Post by wad on Mar 23, 2012 1:42:13 GMT -8
Def. agree. Opening this day would be a disaster. The Red Line's North Hollywood extension opened on the weekend of the NoHo street fair. Even then, waits for the train were 30 minutes. The Pasadena Gold Line opening had nothing on that weekend and 4 hour waits, but with emulator bus service.
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Post by jamesinclair on Mar 23, 2012 1:57:41 GMT -8
Its a Sunday right? Gold and Green dont need the cars, expo and red do, for the event. Blue needs them, but not as much. There will be people on those lines that have ridership needs as it were a regular day, even if they're not going to the opening. You wouldn't want to take away trains. They key word is Sunday. Compare the operational needs of Sunday versus any other day. Theres a huge amount of excess rolling stock on Sundays.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Mar 23, 2012 7:37:58 GMT -8
Def. agree. Opening this day would be a disaster. The Red Line's North Hollywood extension opened on the weekend of the NoHo street fair. Even then, waits for the train were 30 minutes. The Pasadena Gold Line opening had nothing on that weekend and 4 hour waits, but with emulator bus service. cicLAvia has near 200,000 attendees and 90% of them have bikes. The primary ways people attend cicLAvia is via biking or transit. None of the previous opening attractions had to deal with an event of this magnitude. Festival of Books doesn't even compare to cicLAvia. It's now the largest LA event and is heavily dependent on public transportation. There's little or no mention of parking, just transit. So yes, opening with cicLAvia and thousands of bicyclists would be bad. Obviously, future cicLAvias would need expanded Expo Line service.
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Post by bzcat on Mar 23, 2012 10:27:30 GMT -8
We are veering way off topic now
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