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Post by Gokhan on Dec 15, 2015 14:08:18 GMT -8
It would be sad if one of the brand-new P3010 light-rail cars got into an accident. I wish Southern Pacific hand't sold the private right-of-way west of 17th St. Who wouldn't want to take a train ride up to Malibu? Sure would beat PCH traffic. Santa Monica Air Line turned south near 4th/Colorado onto Main Street and continued through Venice, Marina Del Rey, and northeast Westchester to Inglewood (Florence Ave and Cable Place). There was a rail yard (Ocean Park Car House) in place of the Metro Venice bus division standing there today. There was a branch continuing north to the Long Wharf/Port Los Angeles located where Lifeguard Headquarters is standing today half mile north of the Rustic Creek (Channel Road) but that pier was torn down in 1933 and the branch was eliminated as a result as well.
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 16, 2015 1:49:11 GMT -8
I can imagine what the "Malibunians" would say if Metro proposed a line following PCH. One can envision the surfer dudes picketing the project and shouting "Locals Only" (title of a song by the Surf Punks from 1982). Many years ago I suggested reviving the Pacific Electric rail service to Huntington Beach and Balboa and calling it the Tan Line.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 16, 2015 15:33:10 GMT -8
I can imagine what the "Malibunians" would say if Metro proposed a line following PCH. One can envision the surfer dudes picketing the project and shouting "Locals Only" (title of a song by the Surf Punks from 1982). Many years ago I suggested reviving the Pacific Electric rail service to Huntington Beach and Balboa and calling it the Tan Line. That would be certainly good but the right-of-way is all gone now. Blue Line deviates at Willow Station from the private right-of-way that goes by the shore and starts running in the median of Long Beach Blvd.
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Post by gatewaygent on Dec 16, 2015 23:11:26 GMT -8
The best Long Beach could hope for is for the Blue Line tracks to run to to Ocean Bl. with a wye. The west wye would lead to the loop and the east wye would become an extension to Belmont Shores with stations at Shoreline Dr., Cherry Av., 39th Pl., and a terminus at Livingstone Dr./2nd St. This would be nothing more than a boutique line/extension, gratuitously built for the benefit of a couple dozen locals and a handful of lost tourists. But the concept seems fun. Something like this would probably work better in Santa Monica along 4th St. where there is enough tourism to substantiate a boutique line/extension.
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Post by johanragle on Dec 17, 2015 1:22:39 GMT -8
I can imagine what the "Malibunians" would say if Metro proposed a line following PCH. One can envision the surfer dudes picketing the project and shouting "Locals Only" (title of a song by the Surf Punks from 1982). Many years ago I suggested reviving the Pacific Electric rail service to Huntington Beach and Balboa and calling it the Tan Line. That would be certainly good but the right-of-way is all gone now. Blue Line deviates at Willow Station from the private right-of-way that goes by the shore and starts running in the median of Long Beach Blvd. I thought Long Beach kept bringing up the idea of extending the Blue Line to CSULB via that right-of-way. It's still mostly vacant - temporary buildings (storage sheds) along parts at the most. Edit: These houses could be a bit of a problem though. Might still be doable if they tunneled underground just before and turned to follow PCH to CSULB, but the cost of even such a short tunnel would make people blanch.
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Post by joshuanickel on Dec 17, 2015 11:31:54 GMT -8
Driving by 17th street station this morning, they appear to be setting up for some event/party in the parking lot. Could it be related to the turnover to metro for pre-revenue operation?
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 17, 2015 14:16:42 GMT -8
Driving by 17th street station this morning, they appear to be setting up for some event/party in the parking lot. Could it be related to the turnover to metro for pre-revenue operation? I doubt it. That's not a good location for such a major event.
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Post by gatewaygent on Dec 17, 2015 20:04:58 GMT -8
That would be certainly good but the right-of-way is all gone now. Blue Line deviates at Willow Station from the private right-of-way that goes by the shore and starts running in the median of Long Beach Blvd. I thought Long Beach kept bringing up the idea of extending the Blue Line to CSULB via that right-of-way. It's still mostly vacant - temporary buildings (storage sheds) along parts at the most. Edit: These houses could be a bit of a problem though. Might still be doable if they tunneled underground just before and turned to follow PCH to CSULB, but the cost of even such a short tunnel would make people blanch. Yea, that extension is mentioned in the Supplement #1 of the 2009 LRTP. Also mentioned is a Green Line extension from Torrance to Orange County which could contain the CSULB extension within it. I'm sure Metro will figure it out though.
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Post by joshuanickel on Dec 17, 2015 22:03:42 GMT -8
Driving by 17th street station this morning, they appear to be setting up for some event/party in the parking lot. Could it be related to the turnover to metro for pre-revenue operation? I doubt it. That's not a good location for such a major event. Turns out it was a Contractor Christmas party.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 21, 2015 16:29:53 GMT -8
From the headway tests that will take place through the end of the year, it looks like the handover won't happen before early January. Perhaps they will hand over the mainline and Stewart Street Yard simultaneously.
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Post by davebowman on Jan 5, 2016 9:22:03 GMT -8
This morning while driving to work I saw an eastbound train go through the 26th Street crossing at Olympic at about 8:15am. The crossing gates seemed to be functioning normally and I didn't see an extra police escort. It's only a matter of time now . . .
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Post by tramfan on Jan 6, 2016 13:52:44 GMT -8
At Military trains have been crossing without any LA sherrif's patrol for weeks now; until Monday when the gates came down while the traffic lights were still green. There was a lot of confusion and Metro and LA sheriff came over quickly to assess the situation. Since that little mishap the crossing is being guarded by a patrol car when testing happens. I guess this is why they're testing...
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Post by bzcat on Jan 7, 2016 12:24:22 GMT -8
I remember during Phase 1 testing, all the crossing signals went haywire during rain and we had a good laugh about Expo's water-soluble wires and how the aqua color choice was rather unfortunate etc. That seemed so long ago...
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 7, 2016 15:43:44 GMT -8
Here is the grand closeout matrix. It shows that substantial completion has been achieved on everything. Expected revenue-operation date (ROD), not shown here, is April/May 2016.
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Post by tramfan on Jan 13, 2016 14:10:22 GMT -8
I'm not sure why everybody and especially the city of Santa Monica is so riled up about pedestrians and cyclist crossing the median tracks for Expo on Colorado Avenue. From 17th Street on the trains basically become the equivalent of streetcars that are part of the normal traffic flow on a street even though they use a separated track. People do cross streets all the time without using the crosswalks and all vehicles including streetcars should be aware of that. Streetcars use bells to alert people to their presence on the street and the MTA railcars have these features as well in addition to their signature horns that are used at gated crossings.
In most European cities and some American cities as well that have inter urban rail service, street running is normal operating business and they would laugh at the scared officials in Santa Monica and LA who are worried about people crossing the street. Santa Monica opted for street running to prevent an ugly elevated terminal in downtown and they used the argument of comparing it to the streetcar in San Jose that uses a busy pedestrian only street. Apart from the fact that it was the cheaper alternative it also proves to be the most esthetically responsible solution: the downtown Santa Monica terminal looks spectacular. Don't ruin it by erecting ugly fences.
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Post by tramfan on Jan 13, 2016 14:10:34 GMT -8
I'm not sure why everybody and especially the city of Santa Monica is so riled up about pedestrians and cyclist crossing the median tracks for Expo on Colorado Avenue. From 17th Street on the trains basically become the equivalent of streetcars that are part of the normal traffic flow on a street even though they use a separated track. People do cross streets all the time without using the crosswalks and all vehicles including streetcars should be aware of that. Streetcars use bells to alert people to their presence on the street and the MTA railcars have these features as well in addition to their signature horns that are used at gated crossings.
In most European cities and some American cities as well that have inter urban rail service, street running is normal operating business and they would laugh at the scared officials in Santa Monica and LA who are worried about people crossing the street. Santa Monica opted for street running to prevent an ugly elevated terminal in downtown and they used the argument of comparing it to the streetcar in San Jose that uses a busy pedestrian only street. Apart from the fact that it was the cheaper alternative it also proves to be the most esthetically responsible solution: the downtown Santa Monica terminal looks spectacular. Don't ruin it by erecting ugly fences.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 14, 2016 13:07:13 GMT -8
Will there be a surprise turnover ceremony tomorrow?
I doubt it. Metro has been dragging its feet on it. Perhaps it will not accept separate turnovers of the mainline and Stewart Street Yard.
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Post by masonite on Jan 14, 2016 13:14:22 GMT -8
Will there be a surprise turnover ceremony tomorrow? I doubt it. Metro has been dragging its feet on it. Perhaps it will not accept separate turnovers of the mainline and Stewart Street Yard. I agree. This is troubling. People are thinking an April opening, but you can't announce an opening until you have accepted the line. It really seems like May or June is more likely.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Jan 15, 2016 5:12:55 GMT -8
I'm not sure why everybody and especially the city of Santa Monica is so riled up about pedestrians and cyclist crossing the median tracks for Expo on Colorado Avenue. From 17th Street on the trains basically become the equivalent of streetcars that are part of the normal traffic flow on a street even though they use a separated track. People do cross streets all the time without using the crosswalks and all vehicles including streetcars should be aware of that. Streetcars use bells to alert people to their presence on the street and the MTA railcars have these features as well in addition to their signature horns that are used at gated crossings. In most European cities and some American cities as well that have inter urban rail service, street running is normal operating business and they would laugh at the scared officials in Santa Monica and LA who are worried about people crossing the street. Santa Monica opted for street running to prevent an ugly elevated terminal in downtown and they used the argument of comparing it to the streetcar in San Jose that uses a busy pedestrian only street. Apart from the fact that it was the cheaper alternative it also proves to be the most esthetically responsible solution: the downtown Santa Monica terminal looks spectacular. Don't ruin it by erecting ugly fences. The reason is simple, in Europe there is no such thing as punitive damage awards. A private individual cannot sue the city, or the transit Authority for millions of dollars because they got hit by a train it's not legal, and doesn't happen. Sure, they could recover the costs for their injury, but the concept of profiting from an injury is completely foreign and illegal here. This unique, and rather recent facet to US law makes attorneys rich, and anyone with money scared shitless they'll be sued and lose everything they have. As a result, a public agency needs to bend over backwards to protect itself in the event of a lawsuit showing they did every possible thing to prevent whatever injury must might be claimed as a result of their negligence. They are just covering their ass. Does this mean the US system is better, or more safe? I don't think so, and accidental death/injury rates in both Europe and US are actually about the same. On the bright side, the legal industry in the US is making bank, while it barely exists here...
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 15, 2016 11:24:02 GMT -8
Metro says the official turnover of the mainline will take place on Sunday unless there is a last minute change in plans.
So, camp around the terminal station in Santa Monica on Sunday for the grand turnover ceremony!
Stewart Street Yard turnover will be in late January/early February.
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Post by darrell on Jan 15, 2016 12:26:32 GMT -8
I'm not sure why everybody and especially the city of Santa Monica is so riled up about pedestrians and cyclist crossing the median tracks for Expo on Colorado Avenue. From 17th Street on the trains basically become the equivalent of streetcars that are part of the normal traffic flow on a street even though they use a separated track. People do cross streets all the time without using the crosswalks and all vehicles including streetcars should be aware of that. Streetcars use bells to alert people to their presence on the street and the MTA railcars have these features as well in addition to their signature horns that are used at gated crossings. In most European cities and some American cities as well that have inter urban rail service, street running is normal operating business and they would laugh at the scared officials in Santa Monica and LA who are worried about people crossing the street. Santa Monica opted for street running to prevent an ugly elevated terminal in downtown and they used the argument of comparing it to the streetcar in San Jose that uses a busy pedestrian only street. Apart from the fact that it was the cheaper alternative it also proves to be the most esthetically responsible solution: the downtown Santa Monica terminal looks spectacular. Don't ruin it by erecting ugly fences. Here's a photo two days ago of the orange fencing along the middle of the Colorado tracks near 11th. The fencing is along the sidewalk curb where precluded in the median by track crossovers.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 15, 2016 16:39:08 GMT -8
That orange chicken wire is temporary until the permanent fence is installed, right? Because it's ridiculously ugly.
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Post by darrell on Jan 15, 2016 20:56:58 GMT -8
That orange chicken wire is temporary until the permanent fence is installed, right? Because it's ridiculously ugly. Yes, only temporary. Although think how much better it would look with at least a landscape strip growing vines up a permanent fence. Sad that the median has become nothing but an expanse of concrete (although at least the new sidewalks and parkways on the sides of Colorado are green).
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Post by joshuanickel on Jan 16, 2016 12:03:55 GMT -8
Metro says the official turnover of the mainline will take place on Sunday unless there is a last minute change in plans. So, camp around the terminal station in Santa Monica on Sunday for the grand turnover ceremony! Stewart Street Yard turnover will be in late January/early February. The Metro CEO has issued a report to the Board stating that the mainline has been turned over as of Friday, 1/15/16. Link to article on Santa Monica Next: Santa Monica Next - EXTRA: METRO TAKES CONTROL OF EXPO LINE TO BEGIN PRE-REVENUE SERVICELink to report from Metro CEO to Metro Board: Expo Phase 2 Turnover - Mainline
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 16, 2016 20:10:45 GMT -8
There was no ceremony, no official news release, no article on Metro's The Source.
This is in sharp contrast to the Gold Line Foothill Extension, where they held a ceremony every time they laid an inch of rail.
I doubt we will see a ceremony when the Stewart Street Yard is turned over either. Note that prerevenue operation cannot begin until then and the revenue-operation date (ROD) will be announced within a month of the latter turnover.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Jan 17, 2016 0:31:09 GMT -8
There was no ceremony, no official news release, no article on Metro's The Source. This is in sharp contrast to the Gold Line Foothill Extension, where they held a ceremony every time they laid an inch of rail. I doubt we will see a ceremony when the Stewart Street Yard is turned over either. Note that prerevenue operation cannot begin until then and the revenue-operation date (ROD) will be announced within a month of the latter turnover. Well look at the bright side> New rail lines have now become so commonplace in Los Angeles county that the newsworthiness of major events related to them is almost nil. We could not have hoped or believed such an outcome was possible in 1995.
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Post by joshuanickel on Jan 17, 2016 15:42:20 GMT -8
There was no ceremony, no official news release, no article on Metro's The Source. This is in sharp contrast to the Gold Line Foothill Extension, where they held a ceremony every time they laid an inch of rail. I doubt we will see a ceremony when the Stewart Street Yard is turned over either. Note that prerevenue operation cannot begin until then and the revenue-operation date (ROD) will be announced within a month of the latter turnover. Actually, according to the report to the Metro Board, it states that acceptance of the Mainline allows Metro to assume beneficial use and control of the line to begin phase 2 metro controlled testing and pre-revenue testing as of January 15, 2016. Pre-revenue opperation is not being held up by the turn over of the maintenance yard. The only thing that the turn over if the maintenance yard is holding up is what they call "substantial completion." Once they have substantial completion, they then have 30 days to announce the revenue operation date. Link to report from Metro CEO to Metro Board: Expo Phase 2 Turnover - Mainline
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Post by masonite on Jan 20, 2016 19:01:42 GMT -8
There was no ceremony, no official news release, no article on Metro's The Source. This is in sharp contrast to the Gold Line Foothill Extension, where they held a ceremony every time they laid an inch of rail. I doubt we will see a ceremony when the Stewart Street Yard is turned over either. Note that prerevenue operation cannot begin until then and the revenue-operation date (ROD) will be announced within a month of the latter turnover. Well look at the bright side> New rail lines have now become so commonplace in Los Angeles county that the newsworthiness of major events related to them is almost nil. We could not have hoped or believed such an outcome was possible in 1995. There is not much point to a ceremony for this IMHO. Everyone will just ask when is the damn thing opening. The Foothill Gold Line Construction Authority publicizes everything because they are trying to save their jobs (get another phase going to Claremont). Hopefully, the Maintenance Yard gets turned over by early Feb. and they announce an opening at the Metro meeting in late Feb., but who knows. Not sure how the acceptance of the new rail cars is going. There seems to be some delay, but they should have some ready by May. I would think they would have enough to open service, but I don't have any real feel for this.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 22, 2016 20:22:59 GMT -8
Prerevenue operation can't happen now because there aren't enough trains. We won't have enough trains until the Stewart Street Yard is finished and at least nine P3010s are transferred from the Monrovia Yard. Prerevenue is something that takes four weeks -- not four months. I believe the final CPUC approval is also needed to enter prerevenue.
The language in that short Metro document is confusing. It's implying that prerevenue will start sometime in the future -- not necessarily on the first day of Metro testing.
Also, so far no test trains have been running between Palms and Culver City Stations.
In fact, as far as I know, not even the Foothill Extension has entered prerevenue, despite being turned over months ago.
When the line enters prerevenue, the trains will continue from Culver City Station after all passengers exit. Trains from Santa Monica will board first passengers at Culver City. Also, all Expo Line trains will return to Stewart Street Yard during prerevenue. Prerevenue is more or less an exact simulation of actual revenue operation, not the random testing that is taking place west of the Palms Station right now.
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Post by tramfan on Jan 25, 2016 14:03:33 GMT -8
The "random testing" is actually familiarizing the train engineers or drivers to the new tracks. Once all of them are "cleared" to pilot trains on the new tracks pre revenue testing can start.
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