|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 18, 2011 15:05:48 GMT -8
Biggest milestone of the Expo Line ever just happened. With the celebrations of board members and the public, the project now went into full construction to Santa Monica, ending the long, long, long planning and legal periods.
Details to follow....
|
|
|
Post by rubbertoe on Mar 18, 2011 15:32:04 GMT -8
Biggest milestone of the Expo Line ever just happened. With the celebrations of board members and the public, the project now went into full construction to Santa Monica, ending the long, long, long planning and legal periods. Details to follow.... Wow, Great news Gokhan. There should be a pretty good article in the LA Times tomorrow too. Looking forward to the details... RT
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Mar 18, 2011 15:35:01 GMT -8
Biggest milestone of the Expo Line ever just happened. Yes, because all the Phase 1 milestones were so inconsequential. It has been a very long road to this point. Phases 1 and 2 have had to go through lengthy environmental processes, get several approvals, acquire funding, face legal challenges, and overcome engineering challenges. But Phase 1 is nearly finished, and now Phase 2 will begin. This is indeed a great day for Expo. Soon the heavy lifting will begin, and all the talk, sketches, plans and renderings from the environmental phase will be replaced with a real transit line to the Westside, the first in nearly five decades. Thumbs up to everyone who made this moment possible, especially the old-timers like Darrell and Gokhan.
|
|
|
Post by masonite on Mar 18, 2011 15:38:33 GMT -8
Biggest milestone of the Expo Line ever just happened. Yes, because the Phase 1 milestones -- project approval, funding and move into construction stage -- were so inconsequential. This is indeed a great day for Expo. Soon the heavy lifting will begin, and all the talk, sketches, plans and renderings from the environmental phase will be replaced with a real transit line to the Westside, the first in nearly five decades. Thumbs up to everyone who made this moment possible, especially the old-timers like Darrell and Gokhan. Of course, now we can look at the row every day and ask why hasn't anything taken place or been completed ;D
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 18, 2011 16:20:07 GMT -8
Well, Joel, my argument is not to say that Phase 1 wasn't as important or turn this into Phase 1 vs. Phase 2. You got it wrong. In reality there is no Phase 1 and Phase 2. This project is a whole. Today was very important in that the whole project got rolling now, and the planning phase is now over, and we don't have to worry about the fierce opposition that once threatened the completion of this project (again not to say that Phase 1 Fix Expo opposition was less fierce or competent than the Phase 2 opposition LOL).
|
|
|
Post by trackman on Mar 18, 2011 16:24:35 GMT -8
Utility relocations come first, probably at areas where there will be grade separations first. Right? Predictions?
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Mar 18, 2011 16:35:33 GMT -8
Well, Joel, my argument is not to say that Phase 1 wasn't as important or turn this into Phase 1 vs. Phase 2. You got it wrong. In reality there is no Phase 1 and Phase 2. This project is a whole. Today was very important in that the whole project got rolling now, and the planning phase is now over, and we don't have to worry about the fierce opposition that once threatened the completion of this project (again not to say that Phase 1 Fix Expo opposition was less fierce or competent than the Phase 2 opposition LOL). Today was very important, but so were so many other dates and milestones. Why get into a debate about which milestone is bigger? Today's vote was a big deal, go enjoy your weekend!
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 18, 2011 16:55:19 GMT -8
BREAKING NEWS -- Expo Line officially gets rolling to its final destination, with no more stops in betweenToday the feeling in the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors hearing room could be best described as ecstasy. After the Phase 2 design - build contract got awarded, cheers and applauses were shaking the the room. Votes on all items were unanimous, with each board member expressing their happiness and strongly emphasizing the importance of the day. Paul Koretz had taken the seat of Bernard Parks, but he clarified that Parks couldn't have voted even if he was present because of a certain conflict of interest. Interestingly, there wasn't a single opposition person present today, either from the Phase 1 or the Phase 2 neighborhoods. In fact the Phase 2 opposition, known by the name Neighbors for Smart Rail (NFSR), suffered a double blow today. The first and obvious blow to the opposition was the overcoming of the final planning milestone and official rolling of the construction to Santa Monica. But the second blow was much more subtle. In private conversations, members of NFSR expressed how unhappy they were with the gigantic railroad bridge over Sepulveda Boulevard that was now added to the project. East of Exposition and Sepulveda Boulevards is entirely made up of single-family homes. Now, a 30-ft-high mechanically stabilized earth retaining wall will span all the way from Sepulveda Boulevard to Military Avenue, though tapering to grade level at Military. NFSR members expressed that this giant bridge and wall will divide their neighborhood and there will be more noise impacts with a bridge than at-grade. They were also very unhappy with the fact that the bridge will result in a maximally large development by Casden, as it will give the property the full access to Exposition Boulevard and surrounding streets. But all this is because NFSR demonized at-grade rail, even though they knew inside that it was better to go at-grade for the immediate neighborhood. Now, they will suffer the consequences of not working with the construction authority and opposing all solutions offered to them. NFSR also stated that they are about to file their appeal to the judge's denial of their petition against the Phase 2 final environmental-impact report (FEIR). As the bridge over Sepulveda was unanimously approved, with Zev Yaroslavsky stating that the reason for the choice of this option is not safety but the community impacts that would result because of eminent domain to widen the street with an at-grade solution and the small cost difference between the two solutions, there came the second option on the table. Most community members had asked for the removal of parking at Westwood Station. While Zev expressed his concerns that there may not be sufficient parking for the line in the area after the removal of this station, the removal of parking was also approved unanimously. The official groundbreaking ceremony will likely take place in May 2011. The line will open in early 2015. In addition to the approval of these options, the project-labor agreement, which had some modifications, the agreement by the City of Los Angeles to pay $5.3 million for the Sepulveda bridge using their West LA traffic-mitigation funds, and a limited notice to proceed for $127 million out of the design - build contract's $541 million, was also part of the motion associated with the approval of the Phase 2 design - build contract. The motion was unanimously approved. Note that the $127 million is expected to be spent during the first year or earlier and the remaining notice to proceed will be issued then. Note that there were a lot of speakers from labor organizations in support of the project. After the motion was approved, cheers and applauses filled the room. Fast forward to the end of the meeting audio Part 2 to experience the great moment in bringing the Expo Line to reality. Meeting audio Part 1Meeting audio Part 2
|
|
|
Post by wad on Mar 19, 2011 4:19:46 GMT -8
On the vote roll I saw Parks, Smith, Wesson, and Zine I get it.
|
|
|
Post by LAofAnaheim on Mar 19, 2011 16:24:10 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2011 17:08:09 GMT -8
So, there is no news about the rolling of Phase 2 but the several-day-old news about bus-service changes.
The author is missing the important point that the bus-service changes would have taken place even if there wasn't rail service because the public subsidies have been decreasing. It's true everywhere in the country, even where there is no rail.
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 19, 2011 19:54:47 GMT -8
The author obviously intended to right a story sympathetic to the BRU claims. I happen to agree with the riders questioning the elimination of the 757. The logical thing to do would have been to fix it, not eliminate it.
|
|
|
Post by carter on Mar 20, 2011 10:35:17 GMT -8
The author obviously intended to right a story sympathetic to the BRU claims. I happen to agree with the riders questioning the elimination of the 757. The logical thing to do would have been to fix it, not eliminate it. It's weird that Metro would argue that a 11% improvement over the local service doesn't warrant continuing the 757. But aren't the Wilshire Bus Lanes "only" going to improve travel times by a similar margin? Roughly 15% or so? I know there's more to it, but it seems like 11% is actually a pretty big deal. I'd like to see more movement (and advocacy) for further designating certain arterials as "rush-hour transit corridors" and then taking car lanes away for bus-only lanes, even if it means going to one car lane during rush hour. Western would have seemed like a good candidate. Especially when Expo opens and you have two major rail transit hubs three miles apart along Western that should be connected by a rapid bus service.
|
|
|
Post by transitfan on Mar 20, 2011 17:29:33 GMT -8
I wasn't aware that the city of Hawthorne had annexed the intersection of Western and Imperial
|
|
|
Post by jeisenbe on Mar 20, 2011 20:48:38 GMT -8
To clarify, the 757 is being replaced by a 307 "limited-stop" bus, which will operate at peak periods only. I believe this was the situation before the 757 was instituted.
The problem with the 757 on Western is that the buses are not frequent enough off-peak to be worth the wait, in most cases, so many people will take the first bus that comes along (usually the 207 local) even for long trips, because the rapid is "only" 10% faster.
Imagine if you are waiting at Wilshire and Western at 1 pm, and want to get to Hollywood and Western. Taking the subway will take about 25 minutes and leaves in 1 minute; you will get there at 1:26. If you wait for the next 757 (at 1:20), the schedule says you will get there at 1:35 (in 15 minutes). But if you instead take the 207 (local bus) at 1:04, you will get there at 1:24. It turns out this takes only 20 minutes, almost exactly the same as the 757. So it isn't worth waiting even 5 minutes for the "Rapid" bus, you just take the first bus that comes along, even for a nearly 3-mile trip. On weekends and at night the trip times are even more similar.
If you want to go farther, say from Hollywood/Western to Manchester/Western (10 miles), at 11 AM, you can take the 207 at 11:03 and arrive in 54 minutes at 11:58. If you wait for the next 757 at 11:18, you will only be on the bus for 47 minutes, but will arrive later, at 12:06. Shoulda took the local.
Certainly, for some departure times (say, 1:00 pm) the 757 will be the first bus, or will only be 5 minutes later, and will be faster... if you are headed straight to a Rapid stop, as in my examples. But if instead you want to go from a couple blocks away, say this trip from Fountain to 92nd (between Rapid stops), the local will always be faster, due to greater walking time. The occasions when the 757 is better are limited, off peak, because it only runs every 20 minutes.
Now, at peak hours, there is a rapid bus every 15 minutes or less, the locals are packed even thought they run every 6 or 7 minutes, and there is a bigger difference in trip times between the Rapid and the Local (which is full and stopping every other block), so it makes sense to offer both a limited-stop 307, and the local 207.
If Metro had money to spare, they could increase the 757 to every 12 minutes all day, like one of the rail lines, and then it would often be better to wait for the 757 for many trips. But it doesn't make sense to cut the 757 to only every 30 minutes off-peak; its misleading, and you are better off taking the local most of the time. Better to increase frequency on the 707 off-peak, and keep the limited-stop buses as 307's at peak hours only.
|
|
|
Post by jeisenbe on Mar 20, 2011 20:50:52 GMT -8
In the long term, I would like to see Metro run every Rapid bus at least every 15 minutes, or better yet every 10 minutes like the rail lines, so that riders and just walk up to a stop without a schedule, like many of us do with rail or the Orange Line. That would be "Rapid-transit" quality service, especially if combined with peak-hour bus-only lanes, off-vehicle payment and level boarding. In the current "Rapid" system, the only buses that run at least every 15 minutes all day are Wilshire (720), Vermont (754), Venice (733), Santa Monica (704) - east of Westwood, and Cesar Chavez (770). And of these, only the 720 on Wilshire is as frequent as the the rail lines off-peak (the Orange Line and the El Monte Busway also qualify, though not the Harbor Transitway portion of the misleading "Silver Line"). If all of the lines on this map (which currently run every 20 minutes off-peak) had service doubled to every 10 minutes, the Rapid system would feel much more like "rail-quality" service. The frequency is just as important as higher speed and reliability: maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=209582850025375035802.00049004bbbc890f76df4&ll=34.107825,-118.276749&spn=0.319514,0.603561&z=11
|
|
|
Post by jamesinclair on Mar 20, 2011 22:37:46 GMT -8
LA should copy the MBTA and their map, which lists 15 key bus routes, which operate at 15 minute headway or less (exception, last trips and Sunday nights) and full service hours (5am-1am). So in theory, every line in this map offers "rapid transit" style service (although bus bunching does make for the occasional long wait) mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subway/(Note, the map also shows commuter rail routes (like metrolink) which do NOT offer convenient frequencies. Ditto with the ferries. Theyre just for reference I guess)
|
|
|
Post by wad on Mar 21, 2011 4:07:25 GMT -8
To clarify, the 757 is being replaced by a 307 "limited-stop" bus, which will operate at peak periods only. I believe this was the situation before the 757 was instituted. Line 357 had 6-day a week all-day service.
|
|
|
Post by wad on Mar 21, 2011 4:15:33 GMT -8
I know there's more to it, but it seems like 11% is actually a pretty big deal. It's not when you look at the actual time that is saved. A 15-minute trip is about 2 minutes quicker on a Rapid. Basically, north of the 10 Freeway, a north-south Rapid is not much faster than a local. That's because of all the east-west buses close together. Why Metro targeted Line 757 for cancellation is because of the close-together bus stops. Passengers now have adjusted their patterns to board at a local/Rapid stop and take whatever bus arrives first. Despite these facts, I am vehemently opposed to 757's cancellation. I defend the line because I am a regular Western bus rider. I don't need any better reason. But I have one. If Metro gets rid of 757, it can and will use the same logic to get rid of all north-south Rapid service.
|
|
|
Post by trackman on Mar 21, 2011 5:17:38 GMT -8
I think the 757 is more symbolic than anything. Because it only provides an 11 percent time advantage over locals, this is a nominal time savings or advantage. That is all. On the other hand, if the service is rolled into the locals, heck, then riders only need one schedule to carry around with them. And, if it is more frequent, they might not need one at all.
The LA Times article was clear in two other things too.... that the change would occur regardless if rail were around, and, that the standard for Rapids is to provide a 20 percent time advantage over locals.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Mar 21, 2011 7:23:38 GMT -8
So, there is no news about the rolling of Phase 2 but the several-day-old news about bus-service changes. In fairness, I think people outside of the transit community generally would consider the awarding of the contract to be not newsworthy. It's more of a logical next step, rather than a turning point. The news likes turning points. The Board decision to approve the FEIR (and thus the project) made big news, because it was when the Board arrived at the fork in the road and chose LRT on the ROW.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 21, 2011 8:51:06 GMT -8
Guys, I don't want to be a party spoiler but this thread has got seriously hijacked. As a general board rule, please move this discussion to somewhere else (by quoting the relevant posts if necessary), and in the future, do not post unrelated topics in specific threads. I made the mistake of replying myself.
And, metrocenter, enough with stressing the insignificance of the day at every opportunity. LOL It's well known that Los Angeles Times has recently had very poor coverage of transit issues. Even New York Times had a better article on the Expo Line. Also note that it was the approval of the DEIR that picked up the right-of-way, not the approval of the FEIR.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Mar 21, 2011 10:19:51 GMT -8
And, metrocenter, enough with stressing the insignificance of the day at every opportunity. LOL I think I've sufficiently made my point. Also note that it was the approval of the DEIR that picked up the right-of-way, not the approval of the FEIR. Of course you're correct on that.
|
|
|
Post by jdrcrasher on Mar 21, 2011 16:02:35 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 22, 2011 20:35:26 GMT -8
Here is the monthly project-status report for you to enjoy. Key Phase 2 points: - Expo maintenance facility (to be located at Exposition/Stewart) is in its initial stages of request for proposals. It looks like this could end up delaying Phase 2, as it is significantly behind the rest of the project.
- Venice Blvd LRT bridge has already been 65% designed. This structure will be under a different contract.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 22, 2011 21:02:49 GMT -8
Pictures from yesterday. Expo Line Expo/Westwood Station looking northeast. Thanks to neighborhood advocacy and the adoption of an option over the baseline design with transit parking, there will be a park next to the station instead of a parking lot: Looking northwest. Note the dense forage thanks to the rainy seasons for last two years: Birds on a tree nearby: Soon graders will demolish the natural landscape on the Expo right-of-way, with the beauty of the native, natural land lost forever. Someone needs to do a complete shoot of the Expo Phase 2 right-of-way before it's too late!
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Mar 23, 2011 11:05:59 GMT -8
Those are some nice photos, although I must admit that I am more excited about the prospect of completing the task that this coalition was initially formed to advocate for, than I am saddened at the thought of losing the natural recapturing of the "once and future" Expo right-of-way.
|
|
|
Post by bzcat on Mar 23, 2011 14:57:58 GMT -8
I won't miss the weed and overgrown bushes at the ROW. That I can assure you If it is up to me, I would have had a bulldozer waiting at Westwood Blvd and start plowing as soon as the motion passed the city council.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Mar 23, 2011 16:19:48 GMT -8
It is interesting how quickly nature takes over.
There was a cable show not so long ago which contemplated the total disappearance of all humans, through the rapture or whatever, and civilization disappears within a lifetime.
It's even worse when people deliberately build parks, because people grow attached to those. There are rail lines in the South Bay and Seal Beach which are gone FOREVER.
|
|
|
Post by jdrcrasher on Mar 23, 2011 21:23:27 GMT -8
It is interesting how quickly nature takes over. There was a cable show not so long ago which contemplated the total disappearance of all humans, through the rapture or whatever, and civilization disappears within a lifetime. I think i've heard of that show. I think it shows cities like New York becoming huge forests again, eventually leading to the return of the ice shelf, erasing what's left of manhattan's skyline. Didn't that ROW (from Blue Line Willow station to Seal Beach) continue even further into Sunset Beach, and even Huntington Beach?
|
|