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Post by darrell on Nov 16, 2013 21:53:23 GMT -8
Thanks for so thoroughly documenting this milestone day, Gokhan! The sun even broke through the clouds to join in! I especially like this photo, the view up Westwood Blvd. now again crossed by tracks after all these years.
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Post by roadtrainer on Nov 17, 2013 8:54:25 GMT -8
Thanks for so thoroughly documenting this milestone day, Gokhan! The sun even broke through the clouds to join in! I especially like this photo, the view up Westwood Blvd. now again crossed by tracks after all these years. And in NIMBYLAND to Start!
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Post by bzcat on Nov 18, 2013 11:04:01 GMT -8
I drove over the Westwood crossing this morning and it was a non-event. Most drivers probably didn't even notice the new rails on the ground.
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Post by skater on Nov 18, 2013 15:48:44 GMT -8
If only they worked with this amount of speed on the whole line! But it must be much more expensive per amount built when building late at night because of overtime, etc., but also harder on the workers. This is the speed at which the purple line extension should be built! So I guess it is over for NFSR, or is there still some way they can slow things down?
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Post by JerardWright on Nov 18, 2013 16:14:46 GMT -8
If only they worked with this amount of speed on the whole line! But it must be much more expensive per amount built when building late at night because of overtime, etc., but also harder on the workers. This is the speed at which the purple line extension should be built! So I guess it is over for NFSR, or is there still some way they can slow things down? Yes and no. With this concentrated effort, it makes sense to use your worker resource at one time to complete on part of the job that you don't want nor need to go back to. So these at-grade crossings are concentrated at one spot to use the man-hours to get work done for a set weekend. Also depending on the contract work, one job can be done on a weekend in exchange for not working one or two days (Mon-Fri) so that the resources balance out.
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Post by darrell on Nov 18, 2013 17:06:43 GMT -8
Two photos from this afternoon, after driving over it (bit bumpy, until the final pavement is done). Also ran into a young Skanska-Rados person taking photos. Adding a third, looking east at the station platform and current end-of-track.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Nov 19, 2013 2:10:34 GMT -8
More pics of the crossing from Richard and Gökhan on Dwight's ExpoLine picture collection page: ExpoLine Fan
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Post by joemagruder on Nov 19, 2013 8:17:20 GMT -8
In a couple of Richard and Gökhan's pictures the houses across Exposition are surrounded by fences covered by tarps. Is that usual in this project? Also, there has been discussion of using a track laying machine. The pictures show a standard, relatively low-tech track laying process. Is there more to come?
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 19, 2013 9:47:23 GMT -8
In a couple of Richard and Gökhan's pictures the houses across Exposition are surrounded by fences covered by tarps. Is that usual in this project? Also, there has been discussion of using a track laying machine. The pictures show a standard, relatively low-tech track laying process. Is there more to come? They apparently covered a few fences to protect from dust. Tarps are standard around the project. Track-laying machine was a miscommunication by the Skanska/Rados engineer I spoke to. He actually meant the MK IV ballast tamper you can see in my pictures. The tracks are being laid in the same manner as in Phase 1 and they are using the same type of ballast tamper. However, Herzog/Delta joint venture is the subcontractor. Balfour Beatty Rail was the subcontractor in Phase 1. For details on how the tracks are laid, see my long post above with pictures and videos.
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Post by rubbertoe on Nov 19, 2013 9:50:18 GMT -8
In a couple of Richard and Gökhan's pictures the houses across Exposition are surrounded by fences covered by tarps. Is that usual in this project? Also, there has been discussion of using a track laying machine. The pictures show a standard, relatively low-tech track laying process. Is there more to come? Joe, Yes, there is a larger machine that is used after the initial laying of track. Once there is track in place, the "much" larger machine comes in and aligns the track both horizontally and vertically. It makes multiple passes over each section until the track is in the final configuration. This is a very precise operation. When watching this happen over a section of the Gold Line back in 2002, the operator was making a final pass to raise the track 1/10 inch per a conversation I was having with them. RT
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 19, 2013 10:00:34 GMT -8
In a couple of Richard and Gökhan's pictures the houses across Exposition are surrounded by fences covered by tarps. Is that usual in this project? Also, there has been discussion of using a track laying machine. The pictures show a standard, relatively low-tech track laying process. Is there more to come? Joe, Yes, there is a larger machine that is used after the initial laying of track. Once there is track in place, the "much" larger machine comes in and aligns the track both horizontally and vertically. It makes multiple passes over each section until the track is in the final configuration. This is a very precise operation. When watching this happen over a section of the Gold Line back in 2002, the operator was making a final pass to raise the track 1/10 inch per a conversation I was having with them. RT There is no larger machine. Mark IV ballast tamper in my pictures is it. It was used, along with the ballast regulator, after they installed the tracks. It should make a few more passes before the project is completed. See Mark IV (MK IV) ballast tamper details.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 19, 2013 10:23:39 GMT -8
See the good old Mark IV in action at Westwood Boulevard, courtesy of the good old "Bob" Leabow, who used to post a lot on the old TTC discussion board and was a board administrator there:
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Post by rubbertoe on Nov 19, 2013 12:14:27 GMT -8
Joe, Yes, there is a larger machine that is used after the initial laying of track. Once there is track in place, the "much" larger machine comes in and aligns the track both horizontally and vertically. It makes multiple passes over each section until the track is in the final configuration. This is a very precise operation. When watching this happen over a section of the Gold Line back in 2002, the operator was making a final pass to raise the track 1/10 inch per a conversation I was having with them. RT There is no larger machine. Mark IV ballast tamper in my pictures is it. It was used, along with the ballast regulator, after they installed the tracks. It should make a few more passes before the project is completed. See Mark IV (MK IV) ballast tamper details. Gokhan, Yes, the Mark IV is the larger machine I was referring to. I thought that Joe was wondering if there was anything more than the simple backhoe type rig that is used to initially drag the rail onto the ties, this guy:
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 19, 2013 12:49:39 GMT -8
Yes, Mark IV the ballast tamper, his ballast-regulator brother (Michael V? ), and the crane used to lift them could be seen in my pictures. They used them as soon as the rails were placed on the ties:
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 19, 2013 13:19:46 GMT -8
Venice Blvd Bridge as of yesterday. Emergency walkways are finished but they still need to cast the end connections for the emergency walkways and apparently a few other small things at the abutment. They also need to grind and/or sand the concrete surfaces. There is perhaps another month or two of work remaining. I don't get why the easiest part of the work is happening the slowest:
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 19, 2013 14:59:43 GMT -8
Driving by the Sepulveda Station today going Southbound, they are starting to remove the forms off of the bridge structure.
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Post by darrell on Nov 19, 2013 17:43:08 GMT -8
Driving by the Sepulveda Station today going Southbound, they are starting to remove the forms off of the bridge structure. Finally! Falsework spanned Sepulveda way back in March (3/24/13 photo): And a plug: I've added photos first posted here during the last three months to the Friends 4 Expo Phase 2 Construction photo galleries (except for Palms - that will take longer because Gokhan has posted so many great photos!).
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Post by darrell on Nov 19, 2013 17:45:10 GMT -8
See the good old Mark IV in action at Westwood Boulevard, courtesy of the good old "Bob" Leabow, who used to post a lot on the old TTC discussion board and was a board administrator there: Here's a video of one of these working on Phase 1, 9/16/10:
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Post by benh57 on Nov 20, 2013 21:31:23 GMT -8
Yeah, i'm not sure i'd call that an iconic bridge (edit: oops, referring to the earlier Venice bridge comments) Though speaking of artistic flourishes -- i noticed the columns on the green line elevated sections near the Aviation station do have some (clearly unecessary) artistic touches, ie: goo.gl/i36oaZIt's too bad they aren't making columns like this these days for the new expo line.
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Post by darrell on Nov 20, 2013 23:21:26 GMT -8
Yeah, i'm not sure i'd call that an iconic bridge (edit: oops, referring to the earlier Venice bridge comments) Though speaking of artistic flourishes -- i noticed the columns on the green line elevated sections near the Aviation station do have some (clearly unecessary) artistic touches, ie: goo.gl/i36oaZIt's too bad they aren't making columns like this these days for the new expo line. The iconic bridge design for Expo was the arched gateway design for the aerial stations, designed by Phase 1 lead designer Roland Genick in consultation with the Urban Design Committee: Its main concepts of squarish column sides in the same plane with the bridge sides, arched center span, and slanted columns below the arch were carried forward to Phase 2.
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Post by benh57 on Nov 21, 2013 19:02:27 GMT -8
Call it what you like i suppose, but i'm pretty sure you're the only one in the world calling the expo line bridges 'iconic' in the style of the Gold Line iconic bridge. I don't see that term in any of the design docs that i can find. While it was designed by Genick and a 'design committee', it's barely more than functional. I do see the venice bridge referred to as a 'VBU structure' which is about the farthest from 'iconic' as one could get. Semantics, really. I'm with this guy: articles.latimes.com/2012/may/02/entertainment/la-et-expo-line-review-20120502 -- it could have been much better. I'm just as much of an expo fan as you are, but call a spade a spade. <now back to your regularly scheduled Expo line Phase 2 developments thread>
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Post by darrell on Nov 21, 2013 21:51:38 GMT -8
Call it what you like i suppose, but i'm pretty sure you're the only one in the world calling the expo line bridges 'iconic' in the style of the Gold Line iconic bridge. I don't see that term in any of the design docs that i can find. While it was designed by Genick and a 'design committee', it's barely more than functional. I do see the venice bridge referred to as a 'VBU structure' which is about the farthest from 'iconic' as one could get. Semantics, really I'm with this guy: articles.latimes.com/2012/may/02/entertainment/la-et-expo-line-review-20120502 -- it could have been much better. I'm just as much of an expo fan as you are, but call a spade a spade. <now back to your regularly scheduled Expo line Phase 2 developments thread> Interesting conversation! Here's some more background: For the design themes begun at Metro before the project was passed to the Expo Authority and construction team see the Executive Summary of the phase 1 Final EIS. It emphasizes the Transit Parkway theme and ocean wave "weaving" motif, especially for the station canopies. I know there was some disappointment that some design concepts in the Final EIS were not carried forward by the Expo Authority. I can't find any online archived copies of Roland Genick's bridge design options for the Urban Design Committee in 2006-7. You can get a little of their discussions from the archived agendas and meeting notes at the link I previously posted. I was not a member of the UDC but attended some of its meetings and remember the bridge discussion and the idea of "gateway" arches over La Brea and La Cienega. The challenge with light rail bridges is that they not just look like concrete freeway bridges, considering they're built the same way. For that I give Roland Genick and the UDC some credit. Maybe we should have some discussion of favorite light rail bridge and station designs from other systems? My biggest goal was just to get the Expo Line built! And I'd say "not bad" to its designs, and I don't have any strong laments of something else they should have done. Here's a 2003 rendering of an at-grade station designed by David Thom of IBI Group for the never-built Orange County CenterLine that sure seems similar to Expo's canopies!
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Post by TransportationZ on Nov 21, 2013 22:43:18 GMT -8
I never really cared, to be honest. Having rid on LRT systems from other parts of the country, our rail system has the best looking rail stations by far. I guess if you are into really into design and aesthetics, I guess it really stands out on how supposedly "bad" it is.
Also, while I understand the maintenance issue of all the different art on the Red Line, you can't argue against the Hollywood/Vine station. It is by far probably the most well designed and original rail station in the US, if not the world. Even people from NYC must concede to the beauty of this station. Also, considering us angelenos paid a fortune for our Red Line, we can at least make it look unique and nice.
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Post by masonite on Nov 21, 2013 23:16:39 GMT -8
I never really cared, to be honest. Having rid on LRT systems from other parts of the country, our rail system has the best looking rail stations by far. I guess if you are into really into design and aesthetics, I guess it really stands out on how supposedly "bad" it is. Also, while I understand the maintenance issue of all the different art on the Red Line, you can't argue against the Hollywood/Vine station. It is by far probably the most well designed and original rail station in the US, if not the world. Even people from NYC must concede to the beauty of this station. Also, considering us angelenos paid a fortune for our Red Line, we can at least make it look unique and nice. I definitely agree. The Hollywood/Vine Station is awesome. Never forget first seeing on opening day for the Hollywood portion of the Red Line, it gave me so much pride like no other opening. Also, I love how our stations are unique. Never thought of the maintenance and not sure i agree with that. I'd hate for our stations to all look the same. I can't imagine they will have the Purple Line Extension stations look all the same like DC's brutalist stations.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Nov 22, 2013 10:17:09 GMT -8
I've been awed by the Hollywood Vine station since I first got off it to walk down to the new arclight theatre at Sunset Vine, way back in 2002.
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Post by masonite on Nov 22, 2013 10:26:03 GMT -8
I've been awed by the Hollywood Vine station since I first got off it to walk down to the new arclight theatre at Sunset Vine, way back in 2002. I have not been in it since the W Hotel was built over it, but I loved how it was like a movie ticket booth at the opening. I suppose that aspect of it is lost now.
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Post by bzcat on Nov 22, 2013 11:09:08 GMT -8
Back to construction talk... The workers started digging up the roadway pavement on Overland this morning, ahead of the weekend closure for rail installation. Much progress is happening... soon the rail will stretch from Military all the way just short of Palm Station.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 22, 2013 13:03:51 GMT -8
Concrete pump at the Palms Station for the ground slab of the retaining wall and equipment room, taken from a dirty Big Blue Bus no. 12:
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 22, 2013 13:12:15 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 22, 2013 13:35:46 GMT -8
Call it what you like i suppose, but i'm pretty sure you're the only one in the world calling the expo line bridges 'iconic' in the style of the Gold Line iconic bridge. I don't see that term in any of the design docs that i can find. While it was designed by Genick and a 'design committee', it's barely more than functional. I do see the venice bridge referred to as a 'VBU structure' which is about the farthest from 'iconic' as one could get. Semantics, really I'm with this guy: articles.latimes.com/2012/may/02/entertainment/la-et-expo-line-review-20120502 -- it could have been much better. I'm just as much of an expo fan as you are, but call a spade a spade. <now back to your regularly scheduled Expo line Phase 2 developments thread> Interesting conversation! Here's some more background: For the design themes begun at Metro before the project was passed to the Expo Authority and construction team see the Executive Summary of the phase 1 Final EIS. It emphasizes the Transit Parkway theme and ocean wave "weaving" motif, especially for the station canopies. I know there was some disappointment that some design concepts in the Final EIS were not carried forward by the Expo Authority. I can't find any online archived copies of Roland Genick's bridge design options for the Urban Design Committee in 2006-7. You can get a little of their discussions from the archived agendas and meeting notes at the link I previously posted. I was not a member of the UDC but attended some of its meetings and remember the bridge discussion and the idea of "gateway" arches over La Brea and La Cienega. The challenge with light rail bridges is that they not just look like concrete freeway bridges, considering they're built the same way. For that I give Roland Genick and the UDC some credit. Maybe we should have some discussion of favorite light rail bridge and station designs from other systems? My biggest goal was just to get the Expo Line built! And I'd say "not bad" to its designs, and I don't have any strong laments of something else they should have done. Here's a 2003 rendering of an at-grade station designed by David Thom of IBI Group for the never-built Orange County CenterLine that sure seems similar to Expo's canopies! I was being bombastic when I called the Venice Blvd Bridge the iconic bridge. However, it's the bridge that connects the Westside to Mid-City and Expo Phase 2 to Expo Phase 1, and it runs over a major state highway, just like the Gold Line iconic bridge connects Phase 2 to Phase 1 and runs over a major state highway. I agree that none of the Expo bridges are designed to be really "iconic". However, FWIW, when my mother visited last year, she told me that she liked the bridge when we were driving under the La Brea Bridge. She also told me that she liked the waves of the canopies of the Expo Line station when we were waiting for the train. She's not someone who normally comments on architecture, and she did so without me asking her opinion, and for her both the bridge design and canopy design were aesthetic. So, yes, Roland spent a lot of time designing these bridges -- with the idea that they would be here for 100 years and they needed to look good to people driving or walking under them for that reason. Apparently it worked at least for my mother. What would she think about the Gold Line iconic bridge if she saw it? Would she say she liked it or would she laugh at the baskets? Who knows.
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