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Post by Gokhan on Jan 12, 2014 3:30:06 GMT -8
If you look at my Palms Station picture, it's curious that the soffit of the bridge to the left is lower than the soffit of the bridge to the right. I wonder if that's because they will fill the bridge to the left with ballast and the bridge to the right will be direct-fixation.
It's interesting that we'll have mostly ballasted track at this naturally elevated station, as opposed to direct fixation at other elevated stations.
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Post by rubbertoe on Jan 12, 2014 7:52:16 GMT -8
Nice pics Gökhan! BTW, does anyone know why this MSE system is being used on every bridge? It seems like such a waste of retail space. For example, here in Berlin they have a similar bridge system for their S-Bahn, but under the embankments are grocery stores, manufacturing, retail, bars, restaurants, you name it. It lends to the atmosphere around a station and provides a good revenue stream for the transit agency. I'm racking my brain trying to the think of why Metro would do this and fill all the potential revenue generating space (some in prime retail areas) with dirt so it can never be used. Is it some sort of regulation? Fire codes? Earthquake codes? Or did they just not consider it. Anyone know? +1 This seems like a complete no-brainer to me too. And it never occurred to me before even though I have seen examples of this in most other countries. Here is a shot of the La Brea station showing the street crossing and the MSE wall on one end of the street crossing. Stations that sit directly over the street would be prime candidates since they are wider than other crossings. La Cienega and Sepulveda come to mind. They are already building forms for crossing the street and sidewalk. When doing the design, all you would have to do is make it an additional 80' longer than the the baseline design. That just adding one more short pour before hitting the MSE wall. When you are done, you end up with a roughly 40' by 80' enclosed space under the tracks. Even if only 75% of that space is usable, you end up with 2,400 sq/ft of retail space. Thats plenty of room for two small shops. All Metro has to do is pre-wire the spaces for utilities and then let the retail companies build out the businesses. I checked restaurant lease prices and saw they were between $1.50 and $3.00 per square foot per month. So the 2,400 square feet would yield about $3,600 to $7,200 monthly rent. The present value of that income stream is around $1,500,000 to $2,500,000 depending on what interest rate you plug in. So if Metro could have modified the design to extend the elevated section another 80' at either end of the street crossing for less than that amount, it would have made economic sense to have done that. Any construction engineers know what doing that would have added to the cost? The Anaheim Artic station is an example of this. They are going to have something like 8 different businesses present there. They hired a company to handle all the leasing, so that company is responsible for running things versus the city of Anaheim. I could envision Metro having planned to build out station retail additions wherever feasible, and then hiring a company to manage all the locations after they are built. Kind of like what Anaheim is doing. It goes without saying that due solely to the foot traffic these station stores would be absolute gold mines (Starbucks). You could even solve the "restroom" problem by requiring the stores to have restrooms usable by Metro riders who frequent them. Kill two birds with one stone. I would think that countries with higher density and less land available would have higher rental prices and it might be more prevalent there.
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Post by darrell on Jan 12, 2014 9:20:41 GMT -8
I brought up the same idea - about leasing space under the section from La Cienega to Ballona Creek - during a Phase 1 public meeting. If nothing else there are a lot of self-storage facilities right there and that could expand. The negative reply included some reference to security (this was not long after 9/11) but wasn't very convincing. The problem could be that no one has responsibility for the bigger picture - the construction authority just builds to a budget. Metro only owns the line itself, leaving everything beyond to the cities.
At least the aerial sections from National to Venice, Sawtelle to Pico, and Cloverfield to Olympic are bridges, not walled fills.
A current freeway example is the new I-405 - Wilshire interchange. The new higher ramps on the west side have short steel bridges between fill sections while the east side has a long curving aerial concrete bridge. I wonder if it was an aesthetic decision that it had to be open to look east toward Westwood but didn't matter to look west?
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Jan 14, 2014 9:42:54 GMT -8
Went for a bike ride on Sunday along Phase 2 from Venice/Robertson to Sawtelle/Pico. I snapped this panorama encompassing the Sawtelle bridge span, the unbuilt ramp or MSE embankment under the 405, and the Sepulveda bridge (the far right of picture). There was no active work happening on the alignment that day, or at least up to Sawtelle. I found it curious that beyond Sepulveda there's a parking lot of LA City Parking Enforcement cars smack in the ROW, I believe I remember some discussion of a parking garage being built for these cars somewhere, I hope they hurry up!
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Post by bzcat on Jan 14, 2014 10:43:33 GMT -8
The parking garage is already built but not yet opened. It is located just west of Sepulveda. We've known for a long time that the section between Sepulveda and Military (where the LADOT parking lot is located) will be the last section of Expo phase 2 to begin construction. It is perfectly preserved in its per-construction glory...
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 14, 2014 17:52:27 GMT -8
The parking garage is already built but not yet opened. It is located just west of Sepulveda. We've known for a long time that the section between Sepulveda and Military (where the LADOT parking lot is located) will be the last section of Expo phase 2 to begin construction. It is perfectly preserved in its per-construction glory... The parking structure is almost finished and the parking enforcement will soon move into it and the pavement will be torn and construction will start.
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 14, 2014 19:20:23 GMT -8
Regarding using the space under the overpass approaches for restrooms: LA Metro appears to have a policy against providing public restrooms on Metro property. Too many security and maintenance headaches.
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Post by RMoses on Jan 14, 2014 21:57:08 GMT -8
The parking garage is already built but not yet opened. It is located just west of Sepulveda. We've known for a long time that the section between Sepulveda and Military (where the LADOT parking lot is located) will be the last section of Expo phase 2 to begin construction. It is perfectly preserved in its per-construction glory... The parking structure is almost finished and the parking enforcement will soon move into it and the pavement will be torn and construction will start. I hope they don't find any unmarked utilities under the parking lot; perhaps they used sonar to check it out already.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Jan 15, 2014 14:25:03 GMT -8
Northvale Trench update: ballast as almost all been laid for the south tracks and the process of setting the ties has begun, beginning at the freeway overpass and working west. There's no ballast laid for the north tracks as it appears to be better access for the trucks and other heavy equipment. It's hard to imagine this segment will be receiving track before late February. Maybe March? Later?
Funny, when the Westwood and Overland crossings went in two months ago it seemed like the tracks for this segment would have been completed by end of December 2013. Was this kind of construction in fits and starts typical of Phase 1?
I imagine the earlier installation was meant to keep a date between the contractor, Metro, LADOT and LAPD. Once the permits were granted there would have been a huge logistical issue to change those dates.
Also, I noticed that the staging area between Overland and Westwood received a pile of cantenary poles!
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 15, 2014 15:18:11 GMT -8
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Post by RMoses on Jan 15, 2014 15:53:20 GMT -8
Northvale Trench update: ballast as almost all been laid for the south tracks and the process of setting the ties has begun, beginning at the freeway overpass and working west. There's no ballast laid for the north tracks as it appears to be better access for the trucks and other heavy equipment. It's hard to imagine this segment will be receiving track before late February. Maybe March? Later? Funny, when the Westwood and Overland crossings went in two months ago it seemed like the tracks for this segment would have been completed by end of December 2013. Was this kind of construction in fits and starts typical of Phase 1? I imagine the earlier installation was meant to keep a date between the contractor, Metro, LADOT and LAPD. Once the permits were granted there would have been a huge logistical issue to change those dates. Also, I noticed that the staging area between Overland and Westwood received a pile of cantenary poles! Has the Palms overpass floor been poured yet?
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 15, 2014 16:29:38 GMT -8
Has the Palms overpass floor been poured yet? The official Caltrans name for the I-10 freeway bridge over the railroad tracks is Palms Overhead, not Palms overpass. I believe yes.
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Post by skater on Jan 15, 2014 19:05:49 GMT -8
Regarding using the space under the overpass approaches for restrooms: LA Metro appears to have a policy against providing public restrooms on Metro property. Too many security and maintenance headaches. i think @ rubertoe was suggesting that the restrooms be located inside the private business that would be leasing the space. the restrooms would be entirely their responsibility, they could allow all customers and whoever else they choose to use the restrooms. This is sort of the policy in downtown la. I dont think that the way rubertoe is suggesting, that it would be any problem.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 16, 2014 8:05:06 GMT -8
Regarding using the space under the overpass approaches for restrooms: LA Metro appears to have a policy against providing public restrooms on Metro property. Too many security and maintenance headaches. Lots of people use the space under overpasses for restrooms. In fact, pretty much anywhere is a public restroom (for some Angelenos).
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Post by RMoses on Jan 18, 2014 14:41:25 GMT -8
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Post by RMoses on Jan 18, 2014 14:42:58 GMT -8
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Post by RMoses on Jan 18, 2014 14:44:51 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 18, 2014 18:10:32 GMT -8
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Post by rubbertoe on Jan 19, 2014 7:57:44 GMT -8
Very nice pics Gokhan! But I'm pretty sure that nothing good will come from this kind of risky behavior...
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Jan 19, 2014 9:47:50 GMT -8
Nice pics! Actually, the ties extend only as far as Butterfield so that's more than half the trench but still at least another week before they hit Overland. Providing of course they pick up where they left off on Friday, which isn't always the case. Never-the-less, progress!
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 19, 2014 11:06:14 GMT -8
Very nice pics Gokhan! But I'm pretty sure that nothing good will come from this kind of risky behavior... Well, they love to play and hang out on the tracks. What can I say. However, I am hoping that this area will be fully fenced. If that's the case, then they won't be able to enter the tracks unless they enter from the southeast Palms Overhead portal or Overland Avenue.
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Post by simonla on Jan 20, 2014 15:35:52 GMT -8
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Post by simonla on Jan 20, 2014 15:37:12 GMT -8
More:
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Post by simonla on Jan 20, 2014 15:37:52 GMT -8
And more:
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Post by joshuanickel on Jan 20, 2014 16:29:08 GMT -8
To my surprise, workers were hammering away today (MLK Day) on the Bundy station. The wood is starting to come off; I bet the final form will be revealed in the next few weeks. The plaza below the station is pretty big, though not as unnecessarily large as Culver City station. Some pics: View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentI imagine the falsework will not come down completely until the station platform has been formed. This photo of the la ciengia bridge shows how the falsework holds up the center section where the platform sits. The second photo shows the Bundy bridge and gap in the center of the bridge where the platform will sit. The falsework will allow a platform for the work to take place. Once they form the platform in concrete, they will remove all of the falsework. All photos from the Friends for Expo Website.
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Post by RMoses on Jan 20, 2014 19:53:04 GMT -8
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Post by bzcat on Jan 21, 2014 11:46:52 GMT -8
I saw a guy taking photos of Expo at Military this morning. Wouldn't happen to be one of you would it?
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 21, 2014 11:51:02 GMT -8
Has the Palms overpass floor been poured yet? The official Caltrans name for the I-10 freeway bridge over the railroad tracks is Palms Overhead, not Palms overpass. I believe yes. The sign for the Palms Overhead (OH) at its southeast portal. There is also a sign at its northwest portal:
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 21, 2014 11:55:10 GMT -8
Not sure what they are doing at the Venice Blvd MSE ramp. Notice the different backfill for the northern section and there is still no northern wall. Will the northern wall sit at a different height? Or perhaps they went cheap and they won't build a wall there but only a 1:2 embankment.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 21, 2014 12:22:53 GMT -8
Or perhaps they went cheap and they won't build a wall there but only a 1:2 embankment. It will be a real pity if that's the case, as so much useful space for a walkway, landscaping or other development will be lost -- woes of the dreaded design - build (as opposed to the design - bid - build) process.
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