What don't you like about riding a bus? (2003)

[bennyp81]

Jerard
User ID: 0944964 Mar 23rd 8:46 PM

Can you teach an old dog a new trick?

I was just curious to hear what makes riding on a bus so unbearable to some, yet completely comfortable to others.
Describe features/amenities that make riding the bus enjoyable/annoying.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 23rd 8:50 PM

Annoying:

ROUGH RIDE -- lots of jerking, swerving around to get to bus stops, slamming on the brakes at traffic lights and to avoid hitting other vehicles

INFREQUENT -- even at peak periods, 20-minute waits are not uncommon

SLOW -- they get stuck in the same traffic as my car, except they make more stops and I have to wait 20 minutes for it to arrive ... why don't I just drive?

HARD TO BOARD -- no-platform boarding makes it slower, plus you have to wait in that long line to pay the fare

NO ROUTES OR SCHEDULES POSTED -- you show up at a bus stop and unless you're a bus expert, you have no idea where the buses go or when they come. Supposedly the MTA is going to fix this by the end of the year.

Enjoyable:

Getting off the bus so I can transfer to the RED LINE!

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 23rd 8:52 PM

Add NOISY (huge engine roar) and POLLUTED (big clouds of diesel fumes when it pulls up to the bus stop) to the Annoying list. They also sometimes pull a no-show, so they are NOT RELIABLE.

PaulC
User ID: 9885643 Mar 24th 12:33 AM

Man, I think Roberto sum it up on these two post. I cant honestly think about anyother complaints that I have.

Paul

Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 24th 1:22 AM

Some on this board must use Public Transportation or have friends drive them around. Most of us must use our own means of transportation to get around. The few times that I did ride (or tried to ride) a bus proved to me that the bus was not the answer for traveling in Los Angeles.
=========
Bus drivers that will not call out stops, a blind man had to ask a me where the bus was so he could get off at the correct stop.

Had an empty bus that I was waiting for refuse to let me on, then change the sign to “Not In Service. Waited an additional 20 minutes for the next bus that runs every 5 minutes, no bus came by. Then walked over a mile uphill.

Non-coordinated, running ahead of and unrealistic bus schedules.

Busses take too long to travel through Downtown or any other high density area.

Lack of late night, let alone owl bus service.

Different fares asked by drivers for the same route.

Waiting for busses at stops with no benches or shelters.

Lack of lighting at many bus stops.

Lack of concrete pads at bus stops so you have to walk through mud when boarding/debarking the bus.

Poor coordination with other transit agencies.

Different fare structure and rules between transit agencies, for example different age requirements for seniors.

Vandalism on the bus.

Lack of Park and Ride and Kiss and Ride lots and stops.

Roberto stated a lot of other problems using bus that I don’t need to repeat here.
=========
The benefit in using the bus is that I would not have to drive. Another benefit would be that if the bus could take you where you are going without a transfer, or just one transfer with a minimum wait for the next bus.

Bob

Marty
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 1:45 AM

The #1 problem is (lack of) dependability. The only time I really use the bus is to catch the Red Line to go into downtown/Union Station. Whenever I'm in a big hurry, I get really nervous that the bus won't get me there in time. Every time, I'll plan waaay ahead and it'll still be a stressful experience - either waiting at the bus stop forever, getting stuck in traffic, or having to wait for clueless people to get on that are fumbling with nickels and dimes.

The bottom line is that there is no way of gauging when you're gonna arrive somewhere and when you need to leave. In John's hokey-pokey world this might not matter, but it does to me.

One thing I would NEVER do is take a bus to the airport - you could walk out the door the day before your flight and still be a little weary about if you're gonna make your flight or not. The only time the bus makes sense is for short trips that don't require transfers on lines that have frequent service, such as Westwood Blvd with its 5 BBBuses that go to UCLA.

PForce
User ID: 0596854 Mar 24th 1:47 AM

All of the above.

Plus: the ease with which routes and time schedules can be changed, lines that suddenly disappear without warning, unpredictablility, waiting late at night for a bus and suffering the leers of passing motorists, buses that come only every half hour or more, angry bus drivers, waiting in the rain for a bus and getting splashed by inconsiderate car dirvers, the bus that inexplicably never shows up when you are waiting in the rain on a winter evening (or in the morning when you overslept and are late for work), or trying to get to an important appointment on time (maybe for a job interview?), taking someone out on a date on a bus (always a disaster and usually the end of a promising new relationship), etc., etc. The story of my life.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 24th 4:07 AM

Yeah, Bob brought up a good one ... buses that pass by EARLY. I can't tell you how many times (when I was trying to use the buses regularly), I would be showing up early to make sure not to miss my bus, only to see it pass by while I was still 1/2 a block away. I would run to the bus stop, and get there just in time to breathe in the big cloud of diesel fumes as the bus pulled away.

Since the next one wasn't until a 1/2-hour later, I would have to run to an intersection about 2 blocks away to catch another bus going to a similar area at around the same time, but since that one sometimes came early too, I would also see it pass by when I was about a 1/2 a block away. Sometimes that driver would wait for me to run up. But then that one would always get stuck in traffic, so I would miss my transfer ... and then I would have to sit there for 45 minutes or so waiting for the next one ...

Now I just drive everywhere, and take Metro Rail only when I'm close enough to Norwalk to park there and ride. When the Gold Line opens, I'll be able to take it almost daily.

Jerard
User ID: 1655274 Mar 24th 8:15 AM

I am curious where do you all live?

Andrew S
User ID: 0269124 Mar 24th 10:04 AM

All of the above, plus in general having to wait for a bus on the hot, dirty, tiny, unsheltered little piece of sidewalk that remains after all other space has been dedicated to the free flow of vehicles.

After all, I am just an impediment to that flow of vehicles.

Jerard - Manhatan Beach

PForce
User ID: 0596854 Mar 24th 11:11 AM

I live in Venice, where the bus service is fairly decent. We have the Santa Monica Blue bus, which is a relatively good system, as bus systems go, and the MTA, which provides frequent, but uncomfortable and slow service from Santa Monica and Venice to downtown. I use all these buses a lot, not for convenience and speed, but out of sheer determination not to use my car for every dumb trip I make. I also walk a lot, often the 2-to-3 miles to Santa Monica from my house--still better than the bus anytime, unless it's raining.

John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 11:22 AM

I like riding buses because they are usually relatively comfortable and spacious, smooth-riding, generally on-time and they get me where I want to go within a reasonable period of time. Also, I can enjoy the scenery and I don't have to experience the stress, fear, and guilt involved in driving a car.

Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 24th 1:01 PM

I live in Rolling Hills Estates. We just moved our office from Rosemead to Diamond Bar. I can take the Bus, but a 55 minute drive takes 3 hours plus using public transit. Plus, since I work late almost each night, I cannot get home because the 444 bus does not have night service. The last bus leaves before 7 pm from Union Station, and our office closes at 7 pm.

I know there is low ridership on the 444 and there is the LADOT 448 Commuter Express bus that looks just like the MTA busses, but the schedule is not shown on the MTA web site!

Yes John, I know I can move. But there are many reasons that prevents one from moving. I know that many residents that live on “The Hill” still would not use public transit. This could be its own thread: “Why doesn’t the UPPER CLASS use Public Transit.”

Bob

Marty
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 1:30 PM

Part of the problem w/ PV is that you're so secluded from everything and the bus ride up/down the hill takes forever, compared to a car. My parents live in RPV, and I used to take the 444 down to Del Amo when I was a kid. PV is just not designed for public transit, as you have to walk a pretty good distance up/downhill to even get to a major street such as Hawthorne. The only people that really use the bus in PV are maids and some high school students. The only hope would be to have a huge park and ride lot at Hawthorne and PCH for PV residents to drive down to and then connect w/ light rail.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 24th 3:38 PM

I live in Duarte right now. The FT 187 and 189 buses are notorious for passing by up to 15 minutes EARLY. And even when I would get there 15 minutes early, then the bus would pass by 17 or 18 minutes early, so I would still miss it. One week I missed it all 5 days in a row.

Then I would have to run a couple of blocks away to try to catch the MTA 177 to Pasadena, but even when I got it, I would still miss my 401 transfer in Pasadena ... the 177 gets stuck in some major gridlock trying to make a left turn in Pasadena at an intersection with no left-turn arrow ... the signal changes 3 or 4 times before the bus finally gets across. And then on the rare days I would get to my transfer point on time, the 401 would be 20 or 30 minutes late because it gets stuck in traffic on the 110.

I just got a message today from somebody at Foothill Transit that wants to talk to me about coordinating the 187 buses to the Gold Line when it opens. YES! Hopefully they can run a couple of later connecting buses since the Gold Line will run after midnight (the 187 stops a little bit after 11PM).

John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 4:36 PM

Yes John, I know I can move. But there are many reasons that prevents
one from moving. I know that many residents that live on 'The Hill'
still would not use public transit. This could be its own thread: 'Why
doesn¹t the UPPER CLASS use Public Transit.'
Bob

Bob, yes, I think you are so right that many of those who live on "The Hill" (I suspect it would be the overwhelming majority) would never regularly use transit. And of course (it seems to me) this is exactly the reason why there is so very little transit there. My perception is that wherever transit ridership is very high, the service is usually very good, whereas where ridership is very low, it isn't. And this situation seems very logical to me, as I have indicated before.

I have a cousin who lives in Rancho Palos Verdes, and back when she and I used to meet for lunch once in awhile at the Marie Calendar's in that mall near Silver Spur & Hawthorne, I would take the #444 up "The Hill." I can recall waiting at least 45 minutes for it at the corner of PCH & Hawthorne, and I recall my anger about that. But I of course realized full well WHY the #444 ran up "The Hill" so infrequently, and thus it was somewhat comforting to know that the MTA was in no way to blame for the situation. And anyway, I only went up there about two or three times a year, and my partner and I lived in the South Bay then, so it wasn't so bad. Fortunately, the couple or so times a year that my cousin and I get together now, we meet in one of the shopping centers at Crenshaw & PCH, so I don't have to wait for the #444 at all! Did that mall near Silver Spur & PCH go completely out of business?

You mentioned the #448. When my partner and I lived in Torrance, I rode it back from Downtown occasionally, getting off before it turned to go south up "The Hill." And during a period when I did some extra work once or twice a week up on "The Hill," I remember taking either the #225 or the #226 bus up there; but I would always get a ride home afterwards, which, as I recall, was because the bus had stopped running by the time of night when the work sessions concluded.

Anyway, Bob, I am quite familiar with the poor transit situation on "The Hill." Indeed, I was frequently displeased by the transit situation in the South Bay in general; however, I always realized deep down that the MTA was not to blame for the frequently long waits for some of the buses, etc. I mean, I did realize that I was living in the 'burbs, so how could I expect the situation to be any different? For as long as my partner and I chose to continue living there, I knew that I had to endure the situation. It was our choice to live in the 'burbs; the MTA didn't force us to live there.

Believe me, I rejoice every day that we finally decided to move to the City of Los Angeles!

erict
User ID: 0784604 Mar 24th 4:36 PM

I try waiting for a certain bus in El Segundo - #124 I think, and some days it comes on time- while others it can be an hour behind schedule. The stop before is where the drivers take their "change counting" break and lunch break and they really don't care much about being on time. Most work part time- and are sent to different buses on different days. I have only had a train be an hour late once (green line) when they had an elictrical problem.

Jason S.
User ID: 8499503 Mar 24th 4:37 PM

Over Crowding.

Last time I rode the bus it was >packed<

Robert
User ID: 2037954 Mar 24th 9:02 PM

John,

I know that public transportation will not improve on “The Hill” for many years, if not decades. This is your SUV paradise. I would say that many residents that live here are SNOBS. It is against their status to ride any local public transit system; they would have to ride with the lower class low life common person that uses public transit.

Those of us who would like to use public transportation finds out that it is not practical, and we still must use our SUV. I was fortunate that for many years I was able to carpool to work and not have to drive alone.

We know for public transportation to be practical today, the area it serves must be high density, which is not the case for most of the South Bay Region, and even more so on “The Hill.”

How do we solve this problem? First, we require the majority of residents to insist on good public transportation, and then we can see how the problem could be solved. But there are so many other projects that should be solved first, I will just sit here and bad mouth the bad service we have here on “The Hill.”

Bob

Jerard
User ID: 0944964 Mar 24th 9:38 PM

I live off Vermont and 42nd Street, where did Manhattan Beach Come from?

Robert
User ID: 9447203 Mar 24th 10:44 PM

Jerard

Andrew was telling you he lived in Manhattan Beach, not you. That was the reason for the dash between your name and Andrews city.

Bob

John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 11:09 PM

Bob, I do not for one second believe that ANYONE is forced to own or drive an SUV. Nor is anyone forced to buy a house or mansion on "The Hill."

Thank you, though, Bob, for providing what I consider to be an extremely honest as well as totally accurate description of many of those who choose to reside on "The Hill."

It indeed is no wonder that transit is and will continue to be so very limited on "The Hill."

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Mar 26th 4:07 AM

This is your SUV paradise. I would say that many residents that live here are SNOBS. It is against their status to ride any local public transit system;

It's not just snobs that refuses to ride busses etc. I know plenty of Gen Xr's and Yr's that are NOT fans of public transit. That may be because of the luxury car and SUV culture that many in that age brackett 'miracuously' are a part of (I wish I was!) But many I've talked to, including my friend that I rode with from San Diego to Warner Center by rail and bus last Thanksgiving, seem to share the attitude of, "Why take a bus/trolley/train when I can drive?"

Last Christmas, I had dinner with some friends who's post college grad son from Detroit was visiting. I was telling them all about the F4E and other websites like this. I remember his surprise when I told him of LA's Red Line subway and how nice the stations are. He then told us about how he'd only been on a train once, in Chicago, and how it was interesting but it wasn't his cup of tea. Now here's the interesting part, he went on to say that he'd rather drive and everyone he knows would rather drive than take a train. Of course by that time I was shocked that someone would feel that way, but I soon found out that there are many young people who'd rather drive their SUV's with the TV screens and expensive sound systems and chrome wheels etc.

But I'm sure they'd feel different once LA's rail system is expanded to serve more people's needs and actually go where people want to go...if even for special events ie: Staple Center events, Dodger games etc.

PForce: As far as losing out on special dates because you had to take the bbbus, the one thing I liked about NYC and even San Francisco when I was younger was the fact that public transit was such an intergral part of 'city living' that it was perfectly acceptable to take the subway, BART, Muni streetcars etc on a date or to hang out with friends. But I'm sure that now, even those cities have SUV-itis with it's burgeoning affluent young people.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 26th 4:24 AM

That may be because of the luxury car and SUV culture that many in that age brackett 'miracuously' are a part of

Where do these people live? Malibu? Beverly Hills? Del Mar?

I don't know alot of 20 and 30-year olds that own luxury cars. I know those people exist, but it's hardly fair to call them typical ... they are hardly representative of the income bracket that most young people in L.A. County fall into. Therefore, I wouldn't call their values "typical" of 20 or 30-year olds because their financial situation is so different from the norm.

I would bet the house that the vast majority of luxury car owners are 40+ years of age.

Andrew S
User ID: 8492403 Mar 26th 10:35 AM

I live off Vermont and 42nd Street, where did Manhattan Beach Come from?

It was short for Jerard, I live in Manhattan Beach! (in reponse to your request)

mike wills
User ID: 1181464 Mar 26th 12:26 PM

Most people have listed the disadvantages of taking the bus, so I'll start with the advantages for me.

1) Busses mean that I don't have to own a car. I can't begin to tell you how big an advantage that is for me.
2) In L.A., the bus system is comprehensive in that if I want to go somewhere, public transit will get me there... eventually
3) Bikes on busses. I really like this relatively recent innovation, although I have only used it in an emegency situation. Still, I'm glad that it is there.
4) I can read on the bus; something that few other modes of transportation allow me to do, and that includes my preferred mode of cycling. (I currently live in Santa Barbara, and UCSB, where I go to school is less than a mile away)
5) I don't feel stranded if I arrive at a railway station, and no one is there to pick me up. I know some people who seem to think that the public transit experience should end after one gets off the train, thus causing inconvenience for other people.
6) I've been riding L.A. busses most of my life so they are very familiar.
7) They're cheap. A monthly pass is quite reasonably priced, especially when compared with petrol, parking and auto insurance.

Disadvantages
Most of my complaints have already been made:
delays, unreliability, crowding, incredibly slow travel times
I guess about the only reason that I would ever want to own a car is for grocery shopping. Any other reasons that come up for driving somewhere come up infrequently enough to justify renting a car.
However, I lie a little bit. My wife does own a car, which I cannot drive since I never learned how to drive a manual. Since she is a housewife, and I am a fulltime graduate student, she does most of the grocery shopping, and all of the driving. I am rarely a passenger since I bike most places here.
I therefore should say that I do not intend to own a car for myself anytime soon.

Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 26th 3:02 PM

But why should we have buses? Should we establish new bus routes to meet unmet needs?

I am pushing for letters to support the establishment of an All Day, Seven Day per week bus service between the San Fernando Valley, the Santa Clarita Valley and the Antelope Valley.

Try taking a job in Santa Clarita any time on Sunday and most of the day Saturday (get there before 9 a.m. or leave after 4 p.m.), if you live in the other two Valley's and don't drive.

When I asked the Valley Industry and Commerce Association (VICA) to write me a letter of support for this proposed bus service, I got the following reply:

"Bart, VICA has a specific process to take positions before writing letters of support. I'm sorry it will cause us to miss the March 31 deadline however we invite you to make your case, if you still want to, at the VICA Transportation Committee meeting in May.

Please contact me to agenda this item. I think people will want numbers of riders, jobs, impact on workers, etc. so please prepare accordingly.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Bonny"

Now, I am going to make a presentation to them as they have requested.

Do any of you have the time or ability to help me put together a short report on numbers of riders, jobs, impact on workers?

Please post here or send via e-mail to:
[e-mail]

Bart!

Þ--Þ--Þ

John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 26th 5:09 PM

Bart, it sounds as though the majority of people who live and/or work out there don't see a need for the bus service you describe. Is it a rural/small town sort of area? Most rural/small town areas don't have much bus service, as far as I know.

Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 26th 7:02 PM

Actually, John, I live part time in Watsonville.

A community of 42,000. Sylmar has 71,000. Who has more bus service?

Watsonville.

Þ--Þ--Þ

John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 26th 8:50 PM

Hmm. I guess Watsonville also has more pride.

Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 27th 12:16 AM

Here is what I wrote VICA, the Valley Industry and Commerce Association:

Hi Bonny:

I would be delighted to make a presentation to your committee in May 2003. What is the date and time? How much time would I have to present? Number of reports to prepare?

Also, you can still, under your personal letter-head, write to request bus service between the San Fernando, Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley.

The need to help folks get to jobs is immense. For example, just in the 15 square miles of Sylmar, Population: 70M, we have over $1 Billion in payroll. Providing mobility and access to jobs to those who can no longer receive welfare is a major social goal. And we have over 20 miles of arterials within the northeast Valley without Transit Bus Service.

On Monday, June 23, the MTA starts a new 5 day per week bus service that connects the Sylmar Metrolink station with Cascades Business Park and the Ventura Blvd. business district. The park
has over 2,000 jobs and still will have no access by transit from the North County areas.

Large employers such as Six Flags Magic Mountain like to recruit from the huge employment pool in the northeast San Fernando Valley. Six Flags has continuing problems filling staff positions as there is no public transit on Sundays.

I have talked with employees who have had to spend the night in the bathroom at Magic Mountain, as they missed their ride home on Saturday or their junker car broke down in the parking lot. There are a lot of other Santa Clarita and San Fernando Valley employers that would benefit from All Day, Every Day transit connecting Valley-to-Valley.

The Los Angeles Times did a groundbreaking story on the unmet transportation needs from Valley-to-Valley.

So, I would be most pleased if you could come forth with your personal support, as VICA will meet after the deadline.

Sincerely yours,

Bart Reed

Þ--Þ--Þ

[bennyp81]

Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 27th 2:30 AM

Bart,

What I think the big problem is, those who are in charge don't take or care about public transportation. It they did, they would fit you in, even for a few minutes. When they start asking for facts and figures like that, they are giving you the run-around. No bus service, how can you come up with anything. Most of the group looks like they are first class NIMBYs.

Bob

John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 27th 7:19 AM

Bart,
What I think the big problem is, those who are in charge don't take or
care about public transportation. It they did, they would fit you in,
even for a few minutes. When they start asking for facts and figures
like that, they are giving you the run-around.

Why, I declare! Whatever would make you think that, Bob? Hahahahaha!

Jerard
User ID: 0492334 Mar 29th 10:52 AM

Bart, you hit the nail on the head.

Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 29th 1:00 PM

All right, I need help...
I need a letter. Short. One half page. On topic. It will make a difference.

Dear Friends:

Maria Cortez has a job at Magic Mountain. She doesn't drive. So, recently when she missed her carpool connection home, she ended up spending the night in the Bathroom at Magic Mountain. Why? There is no bus service between the San Fernando, Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley. (and no late
trains on Saturday and none on Sunday).

The public health nurse visited pregnant Claudia Nunez at her trailer in Newhall. She urged Nunez to see a doctor immediately at UCLA/Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar. Nunez did not get the medical care, because there is no Valley-to-Valley Bus Service to get her home.

Frank Judd is an assistant manager at Burger King in Valencia. He can't work Sunday at all and he has to leave BK by 5 p.m. the other 6 days to catch the last train back to Los Angeles. BK needs him to work nights and Sundays. He can't. Why? No bus service.

Now, can you help? I simply need a letter from each of you requesting S.F. Valley-to-Santa Clarita Valley-to-Antelope Valley bus service. Just crank them out. Pass this campaign on to your friends. The letters need to be sent this weekend or Monday at the latest.

SAMPLE LETTER:

MTA Article 8 Hearing Record
One Gateway Plaza
Los Angeles, CA 90012-2952

Attn: Susan Richan

Dear Ms. Richan,

I am a resident of the north San Fernando Valley who regularly visits my mom in Santa Clarita via public transportation. Because my mother cannot drive on her own due to medical reasons, opportunities to visit her are significantly smaller.

I strongly urge the MTA to allocate funds, as stipulated in Article 8 of the Transportation Development Act of 1971, for better bus services
between in the region. Increased days and times of service are strongly needed to meet the demands of people not able to utilize private
transportation on their own.

I am confident the MTA will determine better bus services a good use for transportation funds.

Sincerely,

David Phelps
Granada Hills, CA

END OF SAMPLE LETTER

Every summer Magic Mountain has thousands of jobs that aren't filled by the needy youth of the Northeast Valley because there is no Valley-to-Valley Bus Service.

Hortencia Mendez needed to get to the Child Welfare Court in Lancaster before 8 a.m. She couldn't get there from her home in Pacoima and lost her kids. Why? No Valley-to-Valley bus service.

Please help.

Some background:
www.mta.net/press/2003/03_March/mta_030.htm

Þ--Þ--Þ

Numan Parada
User ID: 2170744 Mar 29th 2:07 PM

Done!

Jerard
User ID: 0492334 Apr 1st 7:27 PM

Maybe all MTA needs to do is make ALL bus routes "Rapid Buses"?

Meaning on gridlocked streets have the routes run on dedicated lanes, having low-floor buses operate routes with busier loads, and have signage that is informative and easy to read/understand and simpler routes and destinations within the city.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Apr 1st 7:57 PM

Meaning on gridlocked streets have the routes run on dedicated lanes

Just try to take away traffic lanes on any major gridlocked street and see what the local residents and business have to say about that ...

You might be able to get away with it once in awhile for a huge project like a new LRT line ... but for a bus, enthusiasm for street narrowing would be underwhelming if not downright hostile.

Jerard
User ID: 0492334 Apr 2nd 9:34 AM

The whole Metro Bus System is a BIG continuous Project if you really think about it.

And what kind of business feed off of Rush Hour grid lock? more than likely businesses drop off during rush hour because No one wants to get out of their cars or off the roads UNLESS they know they can move quicker via Public Transit.

I know If I am stuck in Rush Hour Traffic and I continually see buses moving freely with very little delay and jams then I might consider taking the route, because it may make my trip easier and less stressful.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Apr 3rd 1:24 AM

I know If I am stuck in Rush Hour Traffic and I continually see buses moving freely with very little delay and jams then I might consider taking the route, because it may make my trip easier and less stressful.

Jerard, although that sounds good in theory, many people, such as myself, usually have more than one destination when driving. There are the usual errands one runs after work: the dry cleaners, market, shoe shop etc. Then there are those that are a little more social who meet friends for drinks, or weekly religeous studies, or trips to the library or even night classes. Places where taken a bus every day may not be as convenient. I remember when I lived in Riverside Co. and worked in Pomona, I learned every nook and cranny between Pomona and San Bernadino just to keep from having to deal with the jammed I-10.

So, if the MTA could do like the MTDB here does, which is to ask people to consider taking mass transit one day per week, that could do wonders to help with traffic congestion and P.R. for the Metro system!

cj

Marty
User ID: 0798784 Apr 3rd 1:41 AM

If the MTA asked people in LA to take the bus one day/week, people here would laugh. I think the view that most people here have of buses is that they clog up traffic and that they're dirty and filled with scummy people. Honestly I had the same view before I started riding the Big Blue Bus to UCLA - and I'm a little more courteous to bus drivers on the road but my view of buses hasn't changed much. (I drive now since I'm farther away and don't want to transfer buses to get there.)

Buses are still horrible to get stuck behind, especially on smaller streets such as Beverly or 3rd. Every time they stop they almost cause an accident from cars rear-ending each other or cars pulling out from behind them into the next lane. They're still somewhat dirty and musty inside, and quite honestly, there are some STRANGE people on the bus although I occaisonally find them entertaining.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Apr 3rd 2:28 AM

Well like you Marty, now that I drive, I don't jump for joy at the prospect of having to take a bus. The Trolley, yes. The bus no. However, I didn't say the 'bus', I said 'mass transit' which could include Metro Rail and MetroLink trains, and the bus. hahaha. Okay, I get your point. But, for the rail system to work in L.A., people ARE going to HAVE to accept the idea that to get from point A to point B, they're going to have to take a bus at some point or else the Metro Rail system WILL be a failure especially considering L.A.'s tendacy to build rail lines that avoid places of interests or connecting points ie: The Green Line, Red Lines/Hollywood Bowl, NoHo and Warner Center etc.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Apr 3rd 2:59 AM

A bus is OK for a short connection of around 3 miles or less. But the way the system is today, with the local bus being the only option for trips of 25 miles within the County, precious few auto owners are going to put themselves through that misery. If I won't even do it (and I go well out of my way to use the system sometimes), I know nobody else with options is going to do that.

As the rail network expands and the required bus connections get shorter, ridership will increase. That said, the trips with highest ridership will always be the ones that don't require a bus connection.

PS -- The Red Line goes to NoHo. And is Warner Center really a "place of interest" in L.A.? Sherman Oaks, maybe, but Warner Center? ...

I admit I've never been to Warner Center. I always thought it was just a business district where some people work. Is there some big tourist attraction or bustling nightlife district there I'm missing? Please enlighten this Eastsider, so I can maybe check it out on Saturday evening (it's a pretty far trek way out there from my neck of the woods).

And not to be repetitive, but the reason the Red Line does not go beyond North Hollywood is the fault of the NIMBYs that live in the Valley.

Ken Alpern
User ID: 0923684 Apr 3rd 5:48 AM

The Red Line goes to NoHo. And is Warner Center really a "place of interest" in L.A.? Sherman Oaks, maybe, but Warner Center? ...

I admit I've never been to Warner Center. I always thought it was just a business district where some people work. Is there some big tourist attraction or bustling nightlife district there I'm missing? Please enlighten this Eastsider. And not to be repetitive, but the reason the Red Line does not go beyond North Hollywood is the fault of the NIMBYs that live in the Valley.

Ditto for this Westsider--a second to every word that Roberto just said with regards to Valley NIMBY's and the Warner Center. I personally couldn't give a rip about the Warner Center, and would enjoy the Chandler Corridor being used for a rail line for freeway mitigation instead.

A question for those who might know--does the Robbins Bill prevent northward above-ground rail expansion, or just westward rail expansion?

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Apr 3rd 6:10 AM

Hey, I don't know if Art and James will go for this, but since we can't do our Old-Pasadena-on-the-Gold-Line trip for their birthdays ... how 'bout taking them out for a wild night at WARNER CENTER via Rapid Bus?

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Apr 3rd 6:25 AM

Okay Sr. Roberto....Don't wear it out! ;o)

You know that point I was making. I just figured that along with the Green Line NOT making it to LAX, the South Coast Plaza, or the Norwalk MetroLink station and the Red Line NOT having a stop at the Hollywood Bowl, points that you guys in Los Angeles have pointed out time and time again. Along with the apparent focus on Warner Center re: the Red Line extention vs. the Valley Busway, I figured there was some sort of point of interest that I missed on my Rapid Bus excursion over the Thanksgiving Weekend last year. SORRY I WAS WRONG!

So, with that being said, and since I just found out that the Burbank Airport is only 3 miles from the NoHo station then why hasn't more been said about extending the Red Line...above ground(?) to Burbank Airport?

Again, sorry if I made a faux paux...after all, I don't live in L.A. like you all do. I just go by what you say.

cj

Robert
User ID: 9934403 Apr 3rd 1:29 PM

Cliff,

I also think that the Red Line should have had a Hollywood Bowl station. But for the huge cost of building the station, and since Hollywood Bowl use is seasonal, I could see why it was not constructed.

The distance is about 3 miles as the crow flies between North Hollywood and the Terminals at the Burbank Airport, but driving there is about 3.6 to 4 miles.

For the Green Line cannot go to the South Coast Plaza. The Plaza is in Orange County and will be covered by the Center Line, remember the tunnel there.

When the Green Line was designed, the Metrolink was not even an idea, let alone the Norwalk Station. Also, the technology of the Green Line changed from a fully automated driverless train to be compatible with the Blue Line. Then LAWA said the FAA would not allow the line to pass close to the runways. Another large factor was that the Cold War with Russia changed while the Green Line was being built and changed the economy.

I’m wondering if with the proposed I-5 improvements, way below the Radar both the MTA and Caltrans are planning to extend the I-105 east the 1.5 miles to close the gap, which also could bring the Green Line east. I don’t know if this if even in the works, but to me it would be logical to do this.

Today, the main thrust is to get the Green Line to and through LAX. With the proposed master plan at LAX getting close to being adopted, the future of the Green Line north is in the hands of LAWA’s board, that wants complete control over everything.

Bob

Jerard
User ID: 1014104 Apr 3rd 2:57 PM

"THE CHARM OF DENSITY, THE COST OF DISTANCE"

Jerard, although that sounds good in theory, many people, such as myself, usually have more than one destination when driving. There are the usual errands one runs after work: the dry cleaners, market, shoe shop etc.

I know people make many errands b4 getting home.
But maybe the locations to run these errands should be done closer, in order to avoid long traffic or so one can get exercise out of their cars and walk around.

What good is Public Transit in trying to move the masses if the Masses don't want to move themselves away from the Suburbs.

And I know that people will go to parties and do social activities but the majority of the time they Carpool together in order to get there, at least that is what me and my friends do in Chicago, though the L trains run. And I do many of my errands (when I am in LA back from school via Bus-Walking-Rail, one reason is of where I live, Im still in the city with access to many locations within an Hour via Public Transit though I don't have a car)
Its all about a balance of these things together.

Also what you mentioned actually strengthens more of my arguement. If business are located within some form of public transit with good serivce or within WALKING distance of Residential Neighborhoods then maybe that option of needing to drive won't be so bad.

They're still somewhat dirty and musty inside, and quite honestly, there are some STRANGE people on the bus although I occaisonally find them entertaining.

Just like the Chicago System most of the L trains/buses aren't the cleanest and most freshest smelling but it gets you there and most times you still have to transfer to a bus to get to an attraction. And people, people will be people where ever you go. I encourage you to look inside your cars once an while when it is a little cluttered and junky and then think about the bus.

Finally, all the PR in the world will not help the cause if the system itself(I will admit is not straigh-forward and easy to understand and to get around in) If a person finds the ride easy to deal with and moderately comfortable and able to make to the destinations realatively quickly then the riders will be all the PR Public transit will need. I think the only thing MTA needs to do is to put additional information into the Yellow pages, with routes, destination info and frequency so residents can have a resource at hand to use as a rule of thumb to make trips to run errands.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Apr 3rd 6:43 PM

And I know that people will go to parties and do social activities but the majority of the time they Carpool together in order to get there, at least that is what me and my friends do in Chicago

This is generally NOT the case in L.A., from my experience. Because there's so much traffic, and it's so hard to get around, people generally pick the place to meet ("let's all meet at such-and-such bar on the Sunset Strip at 8PM"). That means 5 or 10 cars are going to have to be driven to and parked at the destination.

Since some people are coming from different parts of the County, either from home or work, in gridlocked L.A. there's not always enough time to all meet at one person's house first, especially if you want to eat dinner at a reasonable hour. Just look at the traffic jams in entertainment zones ... very few cars have more than one or two people in them.

PForce
User ID: 0596854 Apr 3rd 7:43 PM

Dirty busses, obnoxious passengers: after hours of carrying hundreds (if not thousands) of people of all ages, sizes, different neighborhoods, different occupations, (and especially on the longer lines) busses will look unkempt with the occaisional newspaper that gets scattered, and the occaisional potato chip bag that gets dropped. Still, I find that most bus passengers are civil, polite, and accomodating (we're all in this mess together), and not the unruly crowd described in a previous post.

What I try to avoid are the busses that are full of high schoolers just getting out of class. This can be an unpleasant experience, especially at the back of the bus where the young punks hang out. Otherwise, I find fellow bus riders unobtrusive and considerate.

Crowded buses, regardless of the other inconveniences, make the trip unpleasant. Buses tend to swerve and brake suddenly when the driver is trying to fight heavy traffic. Under these circumstances, hanging on is difficult, especially if you are carrying shopping bags or a big brief case, with the passengers bumping into each other or trying to squeeze through the aisle to get to a seat or to exit the bus.

If we travel through a very poor neighborhood (in any city in the world) we will occaisionally encounter unpleasant behavior on the part of some people--drunks, angry and arrogant teenagers, arguing spouses, etc. It's part of life in those deprived societies, be they in particular neighborhoods, or entire countries. It's an inevitable part of life in societies with disfunctional or skewed economies and harsh living conditions (Watch your wallet).

However, there is a big difference in the same situation when we ride in a subway, with its usually wider aisles, longer carraiges, smooth rides, and lack of traffic jams and frequent traffic lights. In a light-rail car or subway, the trip is quicker and you are not stuck with the same crowd for very long. In any case, if you do encounter an obnoxious person that you want to get away from, you move to a different car, or get off and take the next train. Not so easy to do on a bus.

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Apr 3rd 7:50 PM

If we travel through a very poor neighborhood (in any city in the world) we will occaisionally encounter unpleasant behavior on the part of some people--drunks, angry and arrogant teenagers, arguing spouses, etc. It's part of life in those deprived societies, be they in particular neighborhoods, or entire countries. It's an inevitable part of life in societies with disfunctional or skewed economies and harsh living conditions (Watch your wallet).

Hey, this is not limited to "poor neighborhoods". My two most vivid memories of obnoxious drunks/bums on L.A. buses were not in underprivileged zones. One was on a bus going down the Sunset Strip, and the other was on the Wilshire Rapid Bus near Rodeo Drive, where the driver actually had to stop the bus and call the police until they took that guy away. He was getting violent.

Art G
User ID: 9454293 Apr 3rd 7:57 PM

Ive been riding the 76 daily for the past 2 weeks and Ive counted being passed by a overcrowded bus 6 times. This is ridiculuous, and service is much improved from when I was a teen(6-7 years). Why hasnt the MTA recommended an upgrade to rapid?

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Apr 4th 3:09 AM

Let's use that anger both to get residents to push LRT on that corridor, and also as proof to the MTA and any doubters that an LRT line in that direction would be jam-packed (which I have no doubt it would be). Not only would you get all that massive bus ridership, but frustrated I-10 commuters would convert en masse to rail, saving them 1 hour or more every DAY on a round-trip commute.

Even though Rapid would be nice, I doubt it would change much ... Rapids also skip stops when they are full (which means you would still get passed by), and they would get jammed in the gridlock on Valley, which means the jammed buses would take forever to get through the area (just like today). Buswise, hopefully some of the new buses they are purchasing and removing from less popular routes will be diverted onto lines 76, 78, and 70. This may relieve overcrowding, but not shorten the commute (in fact, with more buses on Valley Blvd, traffic may actually move slower).

Other than that ... 450-person capacity LRT with 6-minute headways would solve the problem! And a wide-open ROW is already there just begging for tracks ...

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Jun 24th 3:26 AM

From Pasadena Star-News
Tuesday, June 24, 2003

MTA seeks bright colors, vitality in bus fleet

Recognizing that image matters in Los Angeles, MTA officials want a bus makeover - bright, orange California-poppy-colored paint, with metallic silver trim to bring "personality and vitality' to its bus fleet.

Under a proposal going before the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board Thursday, the system's 2,400 buses would get the new colors when they become due for repainting under existing schedules, or as new buses are ordered.

"We should know, here in Southern California, image is an important thing. I want it to be like, (the) bus, it's kind of cool,' Maya Emsden, the MTA's deputy executive officer for creative services, said Monday.

"That is absolutely the message that has gone out to all of us ... This is about changing the way we do business.'

The fresh paint would be one of the more catchy components of a yearlong overhaul of the agency's image, part of CEO Roger Snoble's strategy to get the word out that the MTA is working to improve public transit.

The agency boosted its advertising budget tenfold this past fiscal year to $4.5 million to get out more information about bus and train services.

Officials hope the orange paint on regular buses and red paint on Metro Rapid buses will give riders a clearer picture of the two types of routes. Bus stop signs will soon follow suit. New services, like freeway express, could take on bright blue with silver trim.

"We think it will make a difference the way people react to the fleet,' Snoble said last week during an MTA committee meeting where the new color scheme was unveiled.

The MTA plans to start painting buses in the coming months, with as many as 160 buses painted by year's end. The entire fleet would be ready within three years.

Longtime MTA watchdog John Walsh said new paint does little toward getting better bus service.

"The No. 1 complaint you hear on the buses is not that you don't like the paint job. It's that they're dirty and they don't come often enough,' said Walsh, who regularly takes the bus to work. "Clean it more often - if they want to lighten, brighten it up.'

But transit advocate Bart Reed said cleaning up MTA's image will go a long way toward improving bus service.

"The idea is a terrific ... positive idea that I never believed in my lifetime (the agency) would have done,' said Reed, a bus rider and member of the MTA's San Fernando Valley Service Sector Council.

"There's a lot of people who are reticent to ride buses. If you get something that looks like quality, people will be less reticent to participate.'

The agency also wants to revamp its "M' Metro logo that is supposed to be like a brand name for all its services - Metro buses, rail, the subway, the freeway service patrol - but is recognizable by just half those polled.

MTA officials said buses also would get new interior designs, and MTA trains would either get the silver paint or keep a stainless steel look.

"Our buses, that's a pretty big physical presence on the streets in the county of Los Angeles. That's a big visual impact,' said Emsden.

"It's not just a new color scheme, not just showing we care, but (that we) really care what kind of environment our customers are in."

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jun 24th 4:03 AM

See, this is why I find it hard to believe that we're in such a 'severe' budget crunch. I've heard more ideas to waste money 'since' the budget crunch than before!

I've seen Los Angeles city busses from the original MTA green busses with the white roofs, to the current (and attractive) white MTA busses with the yellow stripe along the sides. But the MOST attractive, in my humble opinion, was the white RTD busses with the brown and orange stripe along it's side. Back in the '80s when L.A. was attempting to jump on the light-rail and subway bandwagon, they would show artist consepts of trains with the RTD color scheme and I couldn't wait to see it in real life.

Well now that the RTD is defunct and the MTA has been revised, I was pretty pleased with the busses and LRT trains being on par with it's current color scheme. Now the MTA is talking about spending money to change it again? I don't think changing the paint on a bus is going to make someone leave the car at home, walk x# of blocks to the local bus stop, and stand 10-20 minutes to wait for a bus. And if they do, then the MTA IS BADDER THAN I THOUGHT!!!

[bennyp81]

Marty
User ID: 0798784 Jun 24th 12:08 PM

Cliff - I think the MTA was going to paint all of the buses over the next few years anyway. Instead of painting them white w/ an orange stripe, they'll paint them orange w/ grey. I like the idea - the Culver City buses look waaaaaay better in solid Green than they did in white w/ a green stripe.

Bert G
User ID: 8841313 Jun 24th 12:33 PM

The MTA is responding to the phenomenon of the Rapid Bus. I have been with people who don't ride transit, who point out the Rapid Bus (There is a layover a block away from me), and ask me what it is, where does it go, etc. MTA is hoping that similar a strong graphic identity for their fleet will spark interest. I happen to agree.

Plus, there is a great advantage to being able to see, in the distance as a bus approaches, which color it is. This helps to identify which bus is coming!

PaulC
User ID: 0206274 Jun 25th 12:38 AM

Once again, the Rapid buses live up to the nick name I give them: "The Rapid Joke". I got off the Metro and caught the wilshire rapid bus, and it took me an hour to get to Santa Monica Pier. We were constantly getting stuck in traffic and slowed down by traffic lights. Now I like the whole paint scheme. I honestly think its going to be a cool thing, but buses don't compare to a Metro. Man if the red line went all the way to the Pier, it probably would have taken half the time to get there, if that.

Paul

Bert G
User ID: 8841313 Jun 25th 1:09 AM

Yeah, the Rapid isn't as Rapid as it could be. But I think it is a step in the right direction. When the full 26 line Rapid system is up and running I think people will use it widely.

But rush hours will always be a problem in this town. In a car, or a bus, traffic sucks!

One day, maybe, a subway to the beach.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jun 26th 2:08 AM

...but buses don't compare to a Metro.

Tonight I had to take a bus here in San Diego. I'd put my precious car in the shop to get a new starter and had planned to go to worship this evening since I had the night off...soooo, I decided to take a bus. I really had to muster the up the will to go on the bus, but I'd promised someone I'd be there tonight, so I walked the two blocks to the bus stop and stood, and stood, and stood. Cars whizzed by, trucks whizzed by, men on bicycles whizzed by and still no bus. Although it brought back memories of days gone by, I HATED IT!!! I was embarrassed standing there waiting and I simultaneously hoped no one would drive by and see me, and at the same time I was hoping someone would see me and stop and give me a ride.

FINALLY the bus came. It was a low floor bus, split-level bus, very similar in style to the Metro Rapid buses up there. Surprisingly, the two mile trip took only 21 minutes with a 5 minute walk after debarking. If I'd driven it still would've taken about twenty minutes without any walking, so it was a nice surprise....once it showed up.

But even with the surprisingly quick arrival to my destination, I remember thinking, "A bus is NO COMPARISON to a train. No way, No how, Not even!

Bobby
User ID: 9223993 Jun 26th 10:49 PM

I hate the stinky people that always seem to be next to you. Like Elaine said on Seinfeld, "How hard is it to put on deodorant. It's just two swipes a day!" when she was riding the subway. I hate sitting in the back of the Santa Monica bus because they are rarely air conditioned and every time the bus stops, all the diesel exhaust rushes into the back like water from a broken dam. It's hot, stinky, and unhealthy in the back. What a winning combination.

Bobby
User ID: 9223993 Jun 26th 10:54 PM

To those curious to where I live:
Off Venice and Crenshaw. Served by the 210 down Crenshaw ( I have walked from Wilshire to Venice and made it before the 210) and the 33 and 550 down Venice. Also I live about a 15 minute walk to Pico and Rimpau station (10 minute walk, if I take the shortcut which is now fenced off due to filming)
They had New York City MTA busses parked around the bus station. Very weird to see them all the way out here. I don't know if they're still there.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jun 27th 4:02 AM

Bobby, are there high/mid-rise buildings around the film site?

cj

Bobby
User ID: 9223993 Jun 27th 12:55 PM

Cj
No, there's not really any buildings around the film site. There's a big abandonded department store and a huge parking lot. Besides the NYC MTA busses there was also a car that said, "Pawtucket Rhode Island Taxi Cab"
This morning I saw a NYC bus being driven down Pico.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jun 28th 4:55 AM

But the MOST attractive, in my humble opinion, was the white RTD busses with the brown and orange stripe along it's side

(I should've added)-...and with brown tinted windows. THOSE were some beautiful buses!

Well, I got my car out of the shop today and she runs like a DREAM! I took two buses along El Cajon Blvd. to get her and to my surprise, I timed them just right. Again, feeling a little 'superior' to the other riders, I commented to the first bus driver(who would turn after a few blocks) if he'd be able to catch up with the bus in front of us, because I was on my way to get my car out of the shop and I was in a hurry and couldn't wait (I said with a BIG grin). He just pretty much stared straight ahead without a wince. So I sulked in my seat until I had to change buses. I didn't get the one in front of us, but one appeared behind us as I waited for the light to cross the street. What a great day to ride the bus! (Ooh I sound like a John...Tee-Hee)

Also, I went to a friend house for dinner tonight in suburban Santee and crossed the intersection of Mission Gorge Rd. and Cuyamaca Blvd's near where the Santee Trolley terminates. They've almost completed building all the shops and stores in the shopping center where the Trolley terminates...right in the middle! Where the Trolley enters the shopping plaza, is a new Olive Garden and under construction right next to it is another restuarant. The idea of putting the Trolley station in the middle of the mall, is a good one in theory; but it's very difficult to find the entrance to the parking lot, and from what I've seen, it's not very pedestrian friendly, as there are large shopping plazas on both sides of Cuyamaca Blvd and the Trolley is waayyy in the middle of the one furthest away.

Reporting live from San Diego for the Transit Coalition, I'm Cliffj...

Back to you board members!

PaulC
User ID: 9140763 Jul 6th 4:31 AM

I was taking the 217 back to the Hollywood and Highland station from the Grove tonight. When I and other riders were boarding the bus, the bus driver told this gay couple: "no f***ing flamers on my bus" and drove away and didn’t let them on. I was like f***ing bastard. I and other riders were like: "hey what the hell". But he didn’t care and drove on. I was thinking about it the whole ride home on the Metro, and I thought to myself that it wouldn’t have happened on the Metro. Because the driver would have been able to see everyone or get out of the cab and say something.

Paul

Cliffj
User ID: 9649143 Jul 6th 6:05 AM

When I and other riders were boarding the bus, the bus driver told this gay couple: "no f***ing flamers on my bus" and drove away and didn’t let them on.

Were they doing anything inappropiate to warrent such a vehement response from the driver?

Cliffj
User ID: 9649143 Jul 6th 6:09 AM

(Sorry)
i.e.: groping one another etc? If not, did you report HIM for inappropriate behavior or discrimination?

Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Jul 6th 7:39 AM

Paul,

Next time make sure to get the driver's number printed in large letters on his sleeve and report him to the MTA.

I'm making it a point to always be ready to get the numbers now. I'm sick of terrible bus service, with drivers treating people badly, stopping at Der Wienerschnitzel for lunch with a busload of passengers watching, waiting for people to run to the bus from a block away only to slam the door in their face and laugh before driving away, starting the route 10 minutes late because they're gambling with other drivers, etc.

The reason they are so bold in their actions is because they know that nobody is going to report them ... and that even if somebody wanted to, they probably wouldn't know HOW to report them.

These buses aren't free, we deserve better.

Robert
User ID: 9934403 Jul 6th 11:18 AM

I may be wrong, if you can't get the bus drivers number, get the NUMBER ON THE BUS (THE FOUR OR FIVE DIGIT NUMBER) and the time, should be able to trace the driver back.

Bob

Bobby
User ID: 9223993 Jul 6th 2:03 PM

One time a bus diver yelled at some kid for paying $1.35. She was like, "Doesn't your mom buy you tokens?!"
I suppose a good mom would instead of making her kid pay $1.35

PaulC
User ID: 9140763 Jul 6th 3:27 PM

I dont think that they were doing anything inappropriate. All they were doing was embacing each other like any good couple would. You beter believe I got his badge and bus number Roberto. Because I will be calling on monday to complain. Its amazing how much of an assh*** bus driver can be.

Paul

Art G
User ID: 9454293 Jul 6th 3:48 PM

Even if they were doing something inappropriate, it doesnt justify that language or treatment. I I was drinking a corona or mowing my lawn I wouldnt think it would excuse someone calling me a wetback. I would agree with Roberto that many drivers act this way because no one trips on them. When I was 15 me and my buddies went on a bus trip to hollywood via a bus on sunset blvd, I forgot the #. A highshool buddy began smoking when a gay man told him to put it out. He threw a huge tantrum when my pal ignored him, and we responded. This was one of my most shameful moments, as I laughed at my friend punking these 2 gay men with violence and slurs. The busdrive pulled over at a stop and laughed as my pals continued tormenting these 2 men, who then got off the bus form our harassment minus a boombox my friend had thrown on the floor and broke. Although I laughed it off at the time I felt extremely bad , which is why I didnt join in. Even though the man threw a huge fitthat wasnt necessary, the slurs and abuse he recieved was uncalled for. Interstingly enough, on the way back on the same line, I had forgot to ask for transfer when I paid. About a minute after we got on I realized I forgot and asked the driver for a transfer. He ignored me at first until the bus stopped at the end of the line around city hall. I begged him to pull off the piece of paper, which I had payed for to begin with. He still refused and I showed him my empty wallet and told him I really needed the transfer, all quite politely while he yelled at me like a child. He eventually blew up at me screaming about us stupid mexicans, I was quite scared by being yelled at by a 300 pound 6 foot 5 bald man. Well, me and my pals began to get a little ballsy and began talking smack right back at him till a police car showed up. Of course we were all cuffed and placed on the road face down. The officer settled it and even ended up telling the driver to just give me a transfer after I expleined my side, and the driver still refused. The officer ended up being real cool and gave me the fare I needed, but ill never forget that jerk.

John
User ID: 9510053 Jul 6th 8:46 PM

I think there certainly are some rude bus drivers. It makes eminent sense that there would be, given that the MTA has to reflect, to a certain degree, the society of which it is a part.

However, I must say that I feel sympathetic to many of the drivers, in view of the rude, crude, and somewhat scary behavior I have seen directed at them by some bus passengers. (Unfortunately, the buses are not free from the presence of rude, crude, and scary passengers, although I've seen MORE passengers of this type in recent years on the cramped little Blue and Green Line trains.)

Just this afternoon, I felt sorry for the driver of the #217 bus I was riding home from Farmers Market/the Grove. At one of the bus stops, he pulled over and opened the front door. When no one showed any signs of wanting to disembark, he closed the door and started to continue driving. Well, lo and behold! Two young females who were sitting about three seats in front of me said, "Whoa!" and at THAT point stood up and started moving forward! The driver replied, "Well." I sensed that he felt the same way I did: If the two had wanted that stop, why weren't they standing---or at least showing signs of getting ready to stand---before the door closed? When they FINALLY reached the front door, one of them turned and said something to the driver, which, by the expression on her face and the behavior displayed by the two after disembarking, I took to be disparaging towards the driver. As the bus finally pulled away, the two looked up at the driver from the sidewalk, laughing and sneering!

As I said, I felt sorry for the driver, as he had at no point done ANYTHING wrong! Yet he had been subjected, it seemed, to insulting behavior on the part of the two inconsiderate, unappreciative passengers!

And of course this is merely one relatively minor example of the abuse to which drivers are subjected. I admire their fortitude and seemingly limitless amount of patience! Yes, there are definitely exceptions, but most MTA drivers seem to be pretty decent, strong people!

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jul 7th 2:20 AM

The officer ended up being real cool and gave me the fare I needed, but ill never forget that jerk.

Well Art, I hope that just as you'll never forget that 'jerk', you will always remember the kindness of the police officer and teach your young son to ALWAY respect the law of the land and the officers that are paid to uphold that law.

Peace,
:-)

Cj

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jul 7th 2:26 AM

PS~ You know, one of the advantages of paragraphs is, you can proof read you spelling errors i.e.~

The busdrive pulled over at a stop.... Even though the man threw a huge fitthat wasnt necessary....recieved was uncalled for. Interstingly enough, on the way back on the same line, I had forgot to ask for transfer when I paid.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jul 7th 2:31 AM

PS~ You know, one of the advantages of paragraphs is, you can proof read you spelling errors i.e.~

See, even I, the Great Cliffj, is not immuned from the spelling error bee.

(smile)

Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Jul 8th 7:04 AM

Marshall Law:

Art G. warning on new policy: Maximum of 4 to 5 lines per sentence. Then carriage return.

If you don't, we will store your posts until we get around to fixing them.

I hope you take this to heart.

Þ--Þ--Þ

PaulC
User ID: 1042384 Jul 20th 2:14 AM

Today I had another horrible experience on the bus. It was 8:46 pm and me and my girl friend had just gotten off the 92 south at 1st and Magnolia in Burbank to connect to the 164 going west down victory. Yet as soon as we got to the bus door, the bus driver closed it and drove away. Man I was pissed. Here we were going to pick up her car from the auto body shop and I was giving her the good word on why she should use PT more, but all that this bus driver did was reinforce her idea that taking PT was bad and that she was glad to have a car.
So after an hour wait for the 164 we made it down victory to the auto repair shop. She even commented the she liked the metros a lot better then the bus, because it comes more frequently and its a lot faster. Man how does MTA plan to get car driving people like my girl out of their cars, when they have people like this driving and time tables as such. Makes my job of pushing PT harder.

Paul

John
User ID: 9510053 Jul 20th 9:01 AM

Paul, it sounds to me like you and your girlfriend happened to be in an area that does not strongly support transit, given that you had to wait an hour for that next bus to arrive! I remember when my partner and I used to live in the South Bay and would sometimes take the #130 bus on Artesia. It, too, passed by only once an hour. I used to get angry at the RTD for such things, but I have come to realize that I was mistaken to feel even the slightest degree of anger at them.

The MTA runs lots of buses on routes that are heavily traveled. This is the way it should be. If a given area does not provide many riders for the buses, then the number of buses running through it should be correspondingly few.

PaulC
User ID: 1042384 Jul 20th 1:58 PM

If this were the case John, I would like yourself have a little more understanding. But the route we were traveling is heavely used and the bus stop that I was at was packed. Also when the bus arrived, it too was packed. So I'm thinking MTA droped the ball on this one.

Paul

John
User ID: 9510053 Jul 20th 6:09 PM

But if it's a heavily-traveled route, Paul, then I wonder why you had to wait an hour for the bus to show up. In any case, I see no way to place any blame on the MTA for what happened, since it seems to me that they only do what the majority of Angelenos want them to do.

Robert
User ID: 2037954 Jul 20th 10:35 PM

John,

You just don't get it...

Yet as soon as we got to the bus door, the bus driver closed it and drove away.

Having a door slammed in your face when you are at the stop waiting.

Bob

Bobby
User ID: 9223993 Jul 20th 10:57 PM

One time I saw some guy running for the bus and I have been in that situation before, so I honked my car at it, and I even drove my car sideways in front of it so it couldn't leave the poor guy. The bus driver still went out of his way to leave him. I couldn't believe it.

John
User ID: 9510053 Jul 20th 11:31 PM

Imagine how slow the buses would be if they waited for all the people who try to come runnin' up late, for some unknown reason expecting the bus drivers to wait for them! It's bad enough that so many passengers won't even stand up to exit before the bus reaches their stop, thus making the bus driver and all the other passengers wait---needlessly---for them to FINALLY decide to begin the exiting process!

I fully support the decision of any driver NOT to wait for a person runnin' up to try and catch the bus after the driver has begun trying to leave the stop. The drivers who refuse to wait for such people are, in my opinion, doing the other passengers a great favor!

mike wills
User ID: 3479954 Jul 21st 1:43 AM

I doubt very many bus riders would agree with you on this one, John. I know I don't and I've been riding L.A. busses for 25 years, and have been in that situation on my fare share of times. You have been riding the busses for a long time too. Are you seriously telling us that you've never at some point run late, or that your bus has come early?
If you had bothered to read Paul's story properly (instead of saying something rather obnoxious) you would have noted that it was hardly his fault that he had to run to catch the bus. He was transferring from one bus to another, and as soon as he got off one bus he had to run for the other.

In the defense of some drivers, sometimes they genuinely do not know that there is some one running to catch the bus. From what Paul said, I doubt that that was the case in this instance, and the driver should have waited for him. Like it or not, courtesy is supposed to be part of the job description of an MTA operator (unlike some passengers that I could think of, eh, John?)

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jul 21st 3:58 AM

Now, who could that be? OH, it must be J...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oops I mean...Tee hee!

Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1718124 Jul 21st 6:07 AM

A good idea in these circumstances is to do what is done in Phoenix. Valley Metro, which services an area where triple-digit temperatures are the norm with infrequent service, supposedly has a strobe light drivers can turn on to indicate connecting buses to wait. This ought to be done more, especially in areas like the Valley.

Ken Alpern
User ID: 9335603 Jul 21st 7:10 AM

Like it or not, courtesy is supposed to be part of the job description of an MTA operator (unlike some passengers that I could think of)

I'm not sure that I would simply call it courtesy, Mike--I would call it basic human compassion, which we need a lot more of.

To me, driving the bus away from a person running up to the bus is inhuman--the equivalent of road rage--and I'll warrant the majority of those already in the bus are rooting for the runner and maybe even yelling at the bus driver to wait should he/she not see that runner.

John
User ID: 9510053 Jul 21st 7:51 AM

You have been riding the busses for a long time too. Are you seriously
telling us that you've never at some point run late, or that your bus
has come early?

Of course I'm not saying either one of those things. Many times, I have just missed a bus. In fact, this happened yesterday morning. But in such cases, I just say, "Oh, well!" and resign myself to waiting for the next bus, which really is no biggie, given the frequency with which the buses tend to pass in Hollywood, on Olympic Bl., etc.

But then I suppose I'm just not as selfish in the pejorative sense as some passengers are. I would never expect a bus driver and a busload of passengers to wait just for me if I'm not already at the bus stop.

Roger R.
User ID: 0972444 Jul 21st 4:46 PM

To me, driving the bus away from a person running up to the bus is inhuman--the equivalent of road rage

I'm with you, Ken. I never understood such behavior, and it is hardly unique to LA. For those of you who know NYC, it's not uncommon for a conductor on a local subway train to close the doors as the cross-platform express is pulling in (or visa versa) and then hold them closed while people fume outside. They do this all the time.

I heard a story once of a guy who got so mad he slapped the conductor, who was stupid enough to leave his head out the window, as the express train took off. Just desserts!

The Long Island Railroad used to do something like that. The commuter stations are so busy that it takes quite a while to crowd down the stairs from the platform. So if a friend of a driver were on board, the train would pull in and line up the front door for the stair. The off-duty friend would key the door open and get off ahead of everyone. Then the train would pull the rest of the way into the station and the doors would all open. In other words, the driver would delay a 1,000 people so one person could jump the line.

Drivers/conductors should be FIRED, on the spot, for such nonsense: same for those who see a transfer bus pull in and take off.

That said, most of the time I've found LA's subway drivers to be nice enough to wait a sec if they see someone bolting down the stairs. The bus drivers it's a crap shoot.

Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jul 22nd 5:07 AM

supposedly has a strobe light drivers can turn on to indicate connecting buses to wait. This ought to be done more, especially in areas like the Valley.

San Diego needs that light REAL BADLY on it's buses! I've seen that happen so many times, as San Diego is not laid out in a grid pattern and one often does have to transfer buses to get from point A to point B.

How could I send this idea to the MTD? Where did you find the original article Chris?

[bennyp81]

Robert
User ID: 9962683 Jul 29th 2:49 AM

MTA Trip Planer for a Saturday Schedule:

Starting at UNION STATION, LOS ANGELES
TOTAL COST: $1.35
Estimated Travel Time: 42 Minutes
Go to Gateway Plaza Rdwy & Bus Bay 7
Take Metro Rapid 745 North ("NO RECD FOR THIS LINE") at 3:39 p.m.
Pay $1.35
Get off at FGUEROA ST between 117H ST and HRBR FRWY at 4:21 p.m.
Ending at GREEN LINE, HARBOR FRWY STATION, LOS ANGELES
==================
Last Saturday, July 26, 2003 I thought I would take a little break from the Gold Line Celebration at Union Station. Since I have not rode any Rapid Bus, I thought I would take the Broadway Rapid Bus from Union Station to the Harbor Freeway Green Line Station and back. I got the 745 schedule to see when the bus would leave, only info on the schedule was the bus runs every 15 minutes. Don't even know the travel time, only the time the line takes in the early morning (37 minutes) and the evening (39 minutes). I went up to Bus Bay 7 and waited about 12 minutes for the bus to arrive,

I was the last (6th) person on, paid my fare and took a seat, which was very narrow with absolutely no leg room, seat and leg room, even less than light rail. OK, the MTA and for that matter, any bus company wants to maximize the capacity for any transit vehicle. With this in mind, I got as comfortable as possible, then at 3:38 p.m. we pulled out about 15 feet to a STOP sign with a couple of jerks. I remembered how a bus driver friend of mine from the old Inglewood City Lines showed me how to stop a bus without jerking the passengers.

I was on my way, the bus was vibrating so much that my glasses fell off, and our driver still knew how to keep jerking the bus while we were traveling. I was wondering what store I would stop at on the way home to get some Prep-H pads. As we traveled south on Broadway, the stops were not being called out. All the seats were taken by 4th street, and kept getting more packed as we continued south.

I checked the standing passengers at the front of the bus to see if anyone was staring at me, but they were more interested in holding on tight to the posts to keep from falling.

We finally got to Manchester, it took long enough, and several got off, but more had to get on. The driver waited for a group of passengers transferring from the Florence Rapid Bus, I was wrong with the street name, one rider was putting his bike on the bike rack, while all this was happening with the front of the bus packed, the driver was yelling for the passengers to step to the back of the bus not using the P.A. system. No one was moving, while the driver continued to ask the standees to move to the rear. The guy sitting next to me, in a low voice said: "get this f***ing bus moving!".

Although, I planned on taking the bus both ways, with this miserable ride, I decided to ride the rails back to Union Station. The bus finally got to Figueroa under the I-105 bus stop at 4:24 p.m. after a 46-minute bus ride from the time I boarded the Rapid Bus, I rushed off the bus.

The entrance to the Green Line station was about 1/8 of a mile across the parking lot, bought my ticket, then took the escalator up to the station platform. The noise from the freeway was very loud. About 10 minutes later, the Green Line Light Rail train arrived, I walked to a seat using wider aisles and sat on a slightly wider seat than on the Rapid Bus.

At the Rosa Parks station, had a five minute wait, some people were talking about the gold line, I joined in and they were very positive about the Gold Line. Another five minute wait at the 7th Metro station for the Red Line. The seats were even wider yet with wider aisles.

The Red Line arrived at Union Station 49 minutes after I boarded the Green Line train, this time included the time to make two transfers. The train ride back was smooth, not jerky, but best of all, comfortable.

Bob

G Johnson
User ID: 0714654 Jul 29th 9:28 PM

The bus ride is anything but smooth, while trains are very smooth. Bus arrival/waiting times are unpredictable, while trains are predictable.

You can really plan a trip on public transportation if you rely on train connections. Good luck if it's a bus connection you're relying on.

John
User ID: 9510053 Jul 29th 11:07 PM

Thank goodness traveling by bus is so relatively easy, comfortable, and enjoyable here in Los Angeles!

Way to go, MTA!

Art G
User ID: 9454293 Jul 30th 12:46 PM

I have the same experience as Robert many times.

Yesterday, I took my little boy on his frst gold line trip(I had only caught a weekend trip before work on my own). I opted to take the 76 because IM SO SICK OF CARS!!! As usual, I had to hold him on my lap, which is usually not fun, but he is getting his molars so he was tylenol-led out. The bus ride was quite jerky and we had to wait a while for trains on valley/eastern(which always seems to happen).

The 4 mile ride took around 40 minutes, and we arrived at the chinatown station. The wait at the station was short, but scary considering I had a daredevil 1 year old who constantly booked it towards the edge of the platform.

We got on the trian and my son was immediately reenergized. He insisted on wiggling off my lap to flirt with other gold line riders, the gold line was packed around 2 pm. by the way. Although he fell over a couple times when the train slowed down, he generally managed to hold his balance when the train slowed or accellerated. This alone is a monument to how smooth the gold line ride is, for he is a 1 year old still learning the fine art of balance. He loved the view out the windows, and the kind friendliness of the other passengers, which is frequently lacked on the bus.

I ended up changing his daiper at the Highland park station benches, because he was a little ripe. He then tested his running skills around the station till another train came by.

My point is I am amazed by the comfortability and quickness of the train compared to the bus. The same distance was reached in 15 minutes by rail, which had taken me 40 minutes by bus.

I was also delighted to sitting next to a mexicano man sleeping on his way home from work. His banda music was blasting on his headphones which led my son to start dancing to everyones delight.

My memorable ride sent my mind racing. I cant wait for the day me and my wife can jump on our eastside gold line train(which we plan to buy a home near real soon), and ride up to pasadena or hollywood or downtown, without any concern for parking gas or TRAFFIC! When it's our personal time out, we can drink freely with no concern for sobering up to drive. And I really cant wait to take my anxious teenage son on the train to show him all the options he has when he and his friends are bored-Downtown, pasa,hollywood, and hopefully soon santa monica.

Frank
User ID: 2087514 Jul 30th 1:04 PM

In general, bus seats are terrible, especially on long rides. A case in point is Foothill Line 480 which I have ridden from LA to Pomona several times. They use transit buses and not surburban (all forward facing seat) buses, and the ride can seem longer than it is. Same with the new low-floor buses in Orange County. The seats are hard and the buses rattle and bump along even though they are essentially brand new.

Frank

PaulC
User ID: 0206274 Jul 30th 3:58 PM

Hey Art, where did you catch the 76 from? if El Monte Station, why didnt you take an express bus to union station?

Paul

Art G
User ID: 9454293 Jul 30th 7:13 PM

I catch the 76 at valley and New ave, in the eastern end of Alhambra, which is a couple hundred feet from my apt. But I also have the option of the 487 bus which actually stops right in front of my building. But I dont like paying 2 something for a busride, no matter what.

Robert
User ID: 2037954 Jul 30th 9:16 PM

John,

We know that you are full of it. You are not helping yourself or others by being the way you are. Except for you, most post tell of the problems we have riding busses. Some posters state and most likely with the facts that are correct, that most bus riders don't have cars.

The fact that you with your little deformed mind says how great busses and the MTA are, then why do we see the problems with Public Transportation in our region and having the LACDPW set up a bus line in Whittier that the MTA missed? Just because you say something is true and make up your own definitions of words does not make it so!

John, the only person you are hurting is yourself. The fact that you want to smell like the French and drink their wine makes no never minds to us. In a couple of years when the Consent Decree expires, you may lose a lot of the service you are now enjoying today.

Maybe John, the comfort you have today on the bus is because you have the padding required to absorb the shocks from the rough bus ride. Maybe the medication you take kills the pain ones feels from the rough bus ride. Just maybe John, your standards are so low that you don't care how rough the rough bus ride is.

Everyone, except you John, on this board wants to make transportation better in the Los Angeles region, even Diane. Some of us uses Public Transportation very little to those that must rely on Public Transportation exclusively. We all have different ideas of how to plan routes and set priorities, but all of us have one common GOAL, that is to IMPROVE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION in the Los Angeles Region, not just do nothing for public transportation like we have done in the past.

John, you and the BRU are the only ones that support the Local Bus approach for total public transportation, while the rest of us sees an integrated system, that uses busses and rail for an efficient systems. Cars and SUVs are also an important part of our transportation structure today, even though we would all like to rely less on the use of Cars and SUVs and use public transportation.

"But then I suppose I'm just not as selfish in the pejorative sense as some passengers are."

I don't know how you can make the above statement John, your post show that you are the most selfish, uncaring and parasite poster on this board.

John, you must be involved in order to keep the good transportation you now say you have, otherwise, you may be left out in the cold waiting for that hourly bus to arrive.

Bob