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Post by carter on Oct 17, 2012 16:22:25 GMT -8
I don't know how much delay there is at the junction for the eastbound trains. There should be essentially no junction delay for CC-bound Expo trains because they don't have to wait for any other trains because no other trains cross their path in that direction. That's what causes delays for 7th Street-bound Expo Trains and all Blue Line trains -- waiting for trains to proceed through the junction that would be blocking their path.
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Post by bobdavis on Oct 18, 2012 1:24:10 GMT -8
Out here in Gold Line country, we put up with relatively slow operation in some areas for quite a while before all the kinks were worked out. We had trains "sneaking up on" stations but now they come in more like a real rapid transit system and less like a Toonerville Trolley. Schedules (East Pasadena/SMV to LAUS) are about five minutes faster than they were in the beginning. Have faith! Better timing is coming!
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 18, 2012 8:37:42 GMT -8
I don't know how much delay there is at the junction for the eastbound trains. There should be essentially no junction delay for CC-bound Expo trains because they don't have to wait for any other trains because no other trains cross their path in that direction. That's what causes delays for 7th Street-bound Expo Trains and all Blue Line trains -- waiting for trains to proceed through the junction that would be blocking their path. Correct, the only delay for the southbound Expo trains is the 5 MPH speed limit due to the faulty junction.
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Post by mattapoisett on Oct 19, 2012 9:08:54 GMT -8
Correct, the only delay for the southbound Expo trains is the 5 MPH speed limit due to the faulty junction. . And badly timed lights on the Flower corridor.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 20, 2012 7:39:09 GMT -8
Correct, the only delay for the southbound Expo trains is the 5 MPH speed limit due to the faulty junction. . And badly timed lights on the Flower corridor. North of Washington the lights are synchronized for the trains. They sometimes appear badly timed because the trains no longer arrive at regular intervals. South of Washington I don't know wtf is going on. They are synchronized for cars and I think maybe for trains, but for some reason the trains are not able to take advantage and travel slowly and stop randomly.
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Post by masonite on Nov 14, 2012 13:28:43 GMT -8
Looks like Expo is up slightly in October to 21,382. Ridership is still slowly increasing, although it might be a stretch to get to 27k by April unless some speed improvements take place. Overall Metro ridership is well over 1.5M and rail is over 360k.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 14, 2012 14:31:55 GMT -8
Looks like Expo is up slightly in October to 21,382. Ridership is still slowly increasing, although it might be a stretch to get to 27k by April unless some speed improvements take place. Overall Metro ridership is well over 1.5M and rail is over 360k. Yes, according to my observations, the ridership has been pretty steady in recent months, hard to notice the incremental changes that amount to less than a thousand new riders every month. Phase 1 opened in June, not in April (which was Phase 0.9). That's still eight months away and we may make it to 27k by then. Farmdale caused quite a bit dent in ridership by adding two extra minutes without adding any riders and LADOT's insistance on not giving signal preemption on some of the minor crossings is not helping the ridership at all. On the good side, for those like me who are riding the line daily, low ridership is, of course, a blessing. When they finish paving the Culver City parking lot, that should boost the ridership as well. Many, including me, are unwilling to leave their cars in that heavy dust storm.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Nov 14, 2012 15:17:37 GMT -8
Farmdale caused quite a bit dent in ridership by adding two extra minutes without adding any riders and LADOT's insistance on not giving signal preemption on some of the minor crossings is not helping the ridership at all. I know you keep brining up Farmdale as a dent in ridership, but it's still not terribly bad as 23rd to Pico. Last Thursday, it took 8 minutes between 23rd and Pico station. For a distance of no more than 2 minutes, its average 6 minutes to get between the 2 stops. Imagine sitting at 18th and Flower and not knowing when the train is moving. Unlike Farmdale, you know its moving, just a little slow for a bit. Flower street has significantly more complaints than Farmdale. In my train experience (as a now daily rider), Farmdale is like "eh". But 23rd to Pico, is the most frustrating segment of any Metro rail line.
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Post by masonite on Nov 14, 2012 16:51:45 GMT -8
Farmdale caused quite a bit dent in ridership by adding two extra minutes without adding any riders and LADOT's insistance on not giving signal preemption on some of the minor crossings is not helping the ridership at all. I know you keep brining up Farmdale as a dent in ridership, but it's still not terribly bad as 23rd to Pico. Last Thursday, it took 8 minutes between 23rd and Pico station. For a distance of no more than 2 minutes, its average 6 minutes to get between the 2 stops. Imagine sitting at 18th and Flower and not knowing when the train is moving. Unlike Farmdale, you know its moving, just a little slow for a bit. Flower street has significantly more complaints than Farmdale. In my train experience (as a now daily rider), Farmdale is like "eh". But 23rd to Pico, is the most frustrating segment of any Metro rail line. I'd have to agree with that. However, the line is fairly slow all around too. The only station pair that I would call fast is between La Cienaga and La Brea. I suppose between La Cienaga and Culver City won't be too bad once Culver City is not the terminal station. On another note, last week when I rode they checked fares again and caught someone in my car again and then when I transferred to the Purple Line they were waiting at the exit at Western checking TAP cards. As soon as several people saw them waiting there they did a u-turn and headed towards the elevator, which is the only other way out at the Western Station (I wish I had followed them to see if they got away with not paying). It seems with TAP cards it is much more efficient for them to check fares with their hand held devices. This isn't really how TAP is supposed to work, but at least that is one benefit.
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Post by macross287 on Nov 14, 2012 18:41:59 GMT -8
Well if you look at the ridership numbers on the per mile basis Expo is already Metro's 2nd most productive light rail line and 3rd most over all. This is pretty huge considering the line has only been in operation for 6 months.
Here are the respective Ridership per mile numbers of Metro Rail and the Orange Line for October 2012
Red/Purple: 9,610 Blue: 4,225 Expo: 2,458 Green: 2,327 Gold: 2,153 Orange: 1,782
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Post by JerardWright on Nov 15, 2012 10:23:44 GMT -8
Well if you look at the ridership numbers on the per mile basis Expo is already Metro's 2nd most productive light rail line and 3rd most over all. This is pretty huge considering the line has only been in operation for 6 months. Here are the respective Ridership per mile numbers of Metro Rail and the Orange Line for October 2012 Red/Purple: 9,610 Blue: 4,225 Expo: 2,458Green: 2,327 Gold: 2,153 Orange: 1,782 And its only running at a 12 minute rush hour and 20 minute evening hour frequency compared to the 6 minute frequency on the Blue and Gold Lines and yet is at nearly 2500 riders per mile. The key thing as I mentioned in past with the success of this line is that ridership is moving equally well in both directions at peak time and trip distances are shorter than the Blue Line so that's more riders and capacity left over for when this line goes to Santa Monica. By then I think it will have over 4500-6000 riders/mile. which would make it be in the 67-90K ridership range.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 15, 2012 10:52:56 GMT -8
Expo trains are quite full during rush hour, with standees and a few seats here and there.
I did ride the train recently all the way to 7th/Metro and the Flower St segment didn't seem unusually slow.
You should realize that:
(1) There is a 25 MPH stretch near Adams Blvd. (2) The Washington/Flower Junction stops or slows the trains. (3) This is the end of the line and the trains need to wait for the other trains in front of them.
Other than that, the Flower St section doesn't seem to be any slower than the section between Expo Park / USC and Western Stations.
In fact, the section between Expo Park / USC and Vermont is extremely slow as well -- it sometimes takes 6 minutes for the train to cover the 0.4-mile distance between the Expo Park / USC and Vermont Stations. I bet this is the slowest section along the line.
In any case, I think we all agree that there needs to be some sort of signal preemption at the minor crossings along Exposition and Flower. There is no reason for the train to wait for one car or one pedestrian or sometimes none at all.
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Post by matthewb on Nov 16, 2012 7:05:06 GMT -8
Looks like Expo is up slightly in October to 21,382. Ridership is still slowly increasing, although it might be a stretch to get to 27k by April unless some speed improvements take place. Overall Metro ridership is well over 1.5M and rail is over 360k. There are also seasonal changes working against the line right now. Ridership is higher in the summer, and you wouldn't predict the meteoric rise of the Gold line ridership if you just looked at the first few months after the eastside extension opened. I'm quite bullish about long term growth in ridership on this line (especially if slowness issues begin to be ironed out).
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Post by jamesinclair on Nov 16, 2012 23:14:52 GMT -8
And its only running at a 12 minute rush hour and 20 minute evening hour frequency compared to the 6 minute frequency on the Blue and Gold Lines and yet is at nearly 2500 riders per mile. The key thing as I mentioned in past with the success of this line is that ridership is moving equally well in both directions at peak time and trip distances are shorter than the Blue Line so that's more riders and capacity left over for when this line goes to Santa Monica. By then I think it will have over 4500-6000 riders/mile. which would make it be in the 67-90K ridership range. Does metro have stated standards for when they improve headways? IE: Once ridership exceeds x per hour, increase from 12 to 10 minutes peak, 20 to 15 off peak. Once ridership exceeds y per hour, increase from 10 to 8, and from 15 to 12. Etc? 20 is abysmal.
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Post by matthewb on Nov 17, 2012 11:10:11 GMT -8
And its only running at a 12 minute rush hour and 20 minute evening hour frequency compared to the 6 minute frequency on the Blue and Gold Lines and yet is at nearly 2500 riders per mile. The key thing as I mentioned in past with the success of this line is that ridership is moving equally well in both directions at peak time and trip distances are shorter than the Blue Line so that's more riders and capacity left over for when this line goes to Santa Monica. By then I think it will have over 4500-6000 riders/mile. which would make it be in the 67-90K ridership range. Does metro have stated standards for when they improve headways? IE: Once ridership exceeds x per hour, increase from 12 to 10 minutes peak, 20 to 15 off peak. Once ridership exceeds y per hour, increase from 10 to 8, and from 15 to 12. Etc? 20 is abysmal. Does this have anything to do with a shortage of rail cars? Not the 20 minutes off peak, but the 12 min peak. Also, I think there are some restrictions on what kinds of frequencies they can support due to shared track with the Blue line.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 19, 2012 9:41:47 GMT -8
Ridership is slightly up in November 2012 to 22,066. Still a long way from the 27k goal for June 2013.
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Post by mbbernstein on Dec 19, 2012 17:51:36 GMT -8
Ridership is slightly up in November 2012 to 22,066. Still a long way from the 27k goal for June 2013. True, but considering that ridership is swimming upstream against the current of the typical winter lull, I actually take it as a positive that it is continuing to increase at all.
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Post by macross287 on Jan 15, 2013 17:56:45 GMT -8
Expo got a jolt in ridership for December to 23,190 boardings. As it stands now the line is 4,000 away from reaching the 27,000 weekday boardings projected for the year 2020.
Here are the Boardings Per Mile numbers to see how the line is performing against the other Light Rail Lines
Blue: 4,169 Expo: 2,666 Green: 2,301 Gold: 2,147
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 16, 2013 13:05:02 GMT -8
Expo got a jolt in ridership for December to 23,190 boardings. As it stands now the line is 4,000 away from reaching the 27,000 weekday boardings projected for the year 2020. Here are the Boardings Per Mile numbers to see how the line is performing against the other Light Rail Lines Blue: 4,169 Expo: 2,666 Green: 2,301 Gold: 2,147 23,193 to be exact. Overall light-rail ridership is now 203,226, only about 28,000 behind Boston. LA may surpass Boston and become No. 1 in light-rail by the end of 2013. Expo Phase 2 should add another 40k, Crenshaw Line should add another 20k, Foothill perhaps 20k, and the connector perhaps 40k. We're therefore looking at around 350,000 when these all open, which should push the rail ridership to above 500,000 -- not too bad. The subway extension could bring it to around 600,000. Expo January ridership seems strong by the way. Once the Culver City lot is paved, it should boost the ridership quite a bit. Too bad that they messed up the Sepulveda parking structure and built only a couple of levels. They should have built at least as large as the La Cienega structure there. Incidentally, the levels B1 and B2 of La Cienega are becoming pay parking in the mornings. However, no one really parks on the two basement levels, as there are no security cameras and a lot of thefts and break-ins.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 1, 2013 10:59:55 GMT -8
From my observations, January ridership seemed very strong. I expect at least 25k, perhaps as high as 27k.
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Post by masonite on Feb 1, 2013 11:19:00 GMT -8
From my observations, January ridership seemed very strong. I expect at least 25k, perhaps as high as 27k. That would be good news. Hopefully, the Culver City parking lot repaving will add a few riders and then maybe they can actually put a freaking sign on the freeway. Looks like we will be right about 27k after a year of operations. Not bad for a slow 8.5 mile line.
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Post by TransportationZ on Feb 2, 2013 14:29:51 GMT -8
From my observations, January ridership seemed very strong. I expect at least 25k, perhaps as high as 27k. That would be good news. Hopefully, the Culver City parking lot repaving will add a few riders and then maybe they can actually put a freaking sign on the freeway. Looks like we will be right about 27k after a year of operations. Not bad for a slow 8.5 mile line. It's slow in parts, but then again, so is NYC local train yet NYC ridership is still rising. If the service is good and it goes where people want to go, then it will do well. Again, instead of "E for Expo Line" it should be "E for Event Line" because especially after phase 2 opens, this what essentially this line will be. Ridership is good because not only does it hit those events and attractions, but even with it's speed it's allot more convenient and cheaper than trying to find and pay for parking.
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Post by roadtrainer on Feb 3, 2013 7:51:05 GMT -8
:)Who does the counting? Is it turn-style (tap machines) or are their counters sitting on the train daily? Sincerely the Roadtrainer
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Post by masonite on Feb 4, 2013 11:52:03 GMT -8
That would be good news. Hopefully, the Culver City parking lot repaving will add a few riders and then maybe they can actually put a freaking sign on the freeway. Looks like we will be right about 27k after a year of operations. Not bad for a slow 8.5 mile line. It's slow in parts, but then again, so is NYC local train yet NYC ridership is still rising. If the service is good and it goes where people want to go, then it will do well. Again, instead of "E for Expo Line" it should be "E for Event Line" because especially after phase 2 opens, this what essentially this line will be. Ridership is good because not only does it hit those events and attractions, but even with it's speed it's allot more convenient and cheaper than trying to find and pay for parking. It definately has good density and destinations along the line. I just think the ridership would be much higher if it were faster. You'd have a lot more people commuting from the Westside to their jobs Downtown if this were the case.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Feb 8, 2013 17:19:38 GMT -8
Hey look, a before and after study of rider behavior in areas served by the Expo line. Complete with assigned pedometer readings, car odometer readings and travel logs. Over 200 families were part of the study!
Who knew?
Warning: This is a very long presentation and a bit mind numbing, but some may find it interesting...
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Post by masonite on Feb 13, 2013 12:43:58 GMT -8
From my observations, January ridership seemed very strong. I expect at least 25k, perhaps as high as 27k. Looks like we clocked in at 24,175 for Jan. as ridership numbers are just up.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 13, 2013 13:02:56 GMT -8
From my observations, January ridership seemed very strong. I expect at least 25k, perhaps as high as 27k. Looks like we clocked in at 24,175 for Jan. as ridership numbers are just up. OK, it's not as strong as I expected from my observations, but it's still continuing the 1k per month increase, which probably means we will hit the estimated 2025 ridership of 27k in April, only about nine months, instead of thirteen years, after the full Phase 1 opening.
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Post by jamesinclair on Feb 13, 2013 22:56:17 GMT -8
Looks like we clocked in at 24,175 for Jan. as ridership numbers are just up. OK, it's not as strong as I expected from my observations, but it's still continuing the 1k per month increase, which probably means we will hit the estimated 2025 ridership of 27k in April, only about nine months, instead of thirteen years, after the full Phase 1 opening. Was that estimate 2025 or year 1 as you mention above?
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 14, 2013 0:56:11 GMT -8
OK, it's not as strong as I expected from my observations, but it's still continuing the 1k per month increase, which probably means we will hit the estimated 2025 ridership of 27k in April, only about nine months, instead of thirteen years, after the full Phase 1 opening. Was that estimate 2025 or year 1 as you mention above? After rechecking it, 27k ridership is actually for 2020, not 2025. Expo fact sheet January 2013
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Post by matthewb on Feb 14, 2013 7:08:14 GMT -8
Is it about time to remind the "Reason Foundation" clowns what idiots they are? I guess to be on the safe side we could wait until it actually hits 27K riders seven years ahead of projections and then post a rebuttal, but perhaps a little nudge is warranted with the data we already have. A reminder to those who missed their totally flawed "report" reason.com/blog/2012/06/21/la-expo-line-opens-two-more-rail-station
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