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Post by Gokhan on Nov 4, 2014 10:43:20 GMT -8
A very sad follow-up to a pedestrian concern I sent to LADOT almost a year ago. LADOT has minimal concern on pedestrian safety...., A very sad pedestrian fatality happened in this intersection early this morning. See the attached graphic pictures of a car with a damaged windshield, clothes on the pavement over a pool of blood, and another car, which may have possibly run over the pedestrian after being hit by the first car. As a result of the accident, Venice Boulevard eastbound is closed indefinitely until the accident investigation is over. We don't know yet what caused the accident this morning or what contributed to it. However, what we certainly know is that this intersection has a very high pedestrian volume and is very complicated. It could well be that the push-button issue may have contributed to the tragedy. We will never bring that life back and I hope you understand how sad that is. You are worried about the cars being delayed by 5 or 10 seconds but the eastbound lanes are closed for many hours now because of this tragedy. You shrugged off my more than well-justified concerns completely last time. No pedestrian improvements have been done in this dangerous intersection. Why are the pedestrian lives treated so worthlessly? Isn't anyone a pedestrian after all? Who is supposed to assume responsibility in this case? Gokhan LA Westside resident and USC employee On 1/16/2014 3:28 PM, ... wrote: > Gokhan > > I spoke to the signal timing experts. > > Even though you state that there are pedestrians crossing Venice Boulevard at nearly every cycle, and we have no reason to doubt you, Venice Boulevard is a very wide street, with extremely high volumes of traffic driving on it. We cannot justify providing the time needed for pedestrians to cross Venice unless they are actually walking across the street. The time which is not provided to pedestrians (when no one pushes the push button) is made available by the signal system to one or more other direction(s) of traffic. It is regrettable that pedestrians may not remember to push the button, or may believe that others have done so, but we cannot time our signal to provide a WALK and flashing DONT WALK phase unless the button is pushed. This is a uniform condition throughout most of the City. > > Because of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), ultimately every signal in the City of Los Angeles will have Accessible Pedestrian Signal (APS) push buttons installed, to ensure that visually impaired and deaf/blind pedestrians can safely cross the street at all signalized intersections. Those push buttons will have both a tone and a vibration to assist those types of pedestrians. Therefore, push buttons should never be removed because they would have to be reinstalled in the future. > > Additionally, if the push buttons were removed, the pedestrian cycle would come up all night long and all weekend long, when the pedestrian crossings would be much less, impacting the operation of the intersection. > > We regret that we will not be able to modify the pedestrian operations at the intersection of Exposition, Robertson and Venice. > > ... > Volunteer Transportation Engineer > LADOT Western/Central District > > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Gokhan wrote: > > Dear ..., > > Thank you very much for replying to me in detail. I agree with everything you said except for the necessity of the push button in this particular case. Here is why: > > I don't know how familiar you're with the pedestrian activity at this intersection but there is a pedestrian crossing Venice Blvd virtually at every signal cycle. This very high pedestrian activity is due to the light-rail station located at this intersection. Therefore, the idea to make the pedestrian signal here on-demand push-button type is a moot issue, as there is a pedestrian waiting to cross Venice Blvd at every signal cycle. Sometimes someone forgets or ignores to push the button and sometimes someone assumes that the person waiting next to the button already pressed it, and they have to either wait for the next cycle or cross against the do-not-walk signal. Since the pedestrian demand here is really high and there are pedestrians crossing at virtually every cycle, it's highly unnecessary and inconvenient to have an on-demand push button here, as it's not really helping the vehicular traffic along Venice Blvd but only making it inconvenient for the pedestrians. It should be got rid off in the earliest possibility and definitely when the street is reconstructed. It's very important from a pedestrian safety and convenience point. > > Thanks, > > Gokhan > > > On 1/7/2014 1:27 PM, DOT Western District wrote: >> Gokhan: >> >> Thank you for taking the time to notify the City of Los Angeles Department of Transportation (and the Bureau of Street Services - which forwarded your e-mail) of your following concerns: >> >> From the LADOT Request System: Pedestrian signal across Venice Blvd isn't working properly, walk signal often skipping cycles. It could be a broken button but pedestrians shouldn't need to press a button here anyway and walk sign should come on in every cycle at this busy crosswalk. >> >> From the BoSS Request System: The pedestrian signal across Venice Boulevard at Robertson Boulevard by the Expo Line Culver City Station is not working properly. Sometimes it will stay red for extended periods for some reason. It could be broken request buttons -- however, the pedestrians shouldn't have to press buttons to cross here to begin with and the signal should go to the walk phase in every cycle. It's making this already complicated crosswalk across Venice Blvd where many pedestrians cross for the train station even more dangerous. >> >> The Traffic Signal Electrician visited the location and confirmed that the push buttons are working properly. >> >> This intersection is very "complex" (5 legs instead of the normal 4). Venice Boulevard is a divided highway, and a pedestrian must walk approximately 110 feet in the east leg crosswalk to get across Venice, At least partially due to the light rail construction, serious vehicular congestion occurs at this intersection during many hours of the day. Venice Boulevard traffic is particularly heavy. >> >> For the above reasons, maximum time must be provided to Venice Boulevard, and the time provided for Robertson and for Exposition must be minimized to the extent possible. Therefore, it is necessary that the pedestrian phase for crossing Venice Boulevard be provided only when a pedestrian has actually pushed the push button, thereby proving that the phase is needed. The WALK phase should come up as long as the push button is pushed at least 5 seconds before the signal is set to change to green for Robertson. >> >> We regret any delays which you are experiencing! >> >> ... >> Volunteer Transportation Engineer >> LADOT Western District
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Post by bzcat on Nov 4, 2014 11:21:04 GMT -8
LADOT is pretty tone deaf when it comes to pedestrian issues. Unless there is a politician telling them to do something, they simply won't change anything that might hinder vehicle movements. I suggest you contact City Council Mike Bonin Paul Koretz or Herb Wesson's office and have them take up the issue. www.11thdistrict.com/www.herbwesson.com/cd5.lacity.org/index.htmEdit: Venice/Robertson is on the border of CD5 (Koretz) and CD10 (Wesson), not CD11 (Bonin)
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f ron
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Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Nov 4, 2014 11:21:18 GMT -8
This is awful news. It's deplorable the way so many of the streets are managed. I'm incensed by the design and execution of the Overland Crossing for the Expo Line. I've expressed concerns for the speed of the cars and the safety of pedestians. Even the SKANSKA crew members whom I speak to daily working at the intersection share my concerns. I've spoken to my local councilman and had city engineers to the scene (no show from the actual designers of the intersection) and all seem agree that it isn't what "should be done". Will that change it? That remains to be seen. I fear is that it will end just as badly on Overland as it did on Venice today for someone and it still won't be fixed.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 4, 2014 12:05:48 GMT -8
LADOT is pretty tone deaf when it comes to pedestrian issues. Unless there is a politician telling them to do something, they simply won't change anything that might hinder vehicle movements. I suggest you contact City Council Mike Bonin Paul Koretz or Herb Wesson's office and have them take up the issue. www.11thdistrict.com/www.herbwesson.com/cd5.lacity.org/index.htmEdit: Venice/Robertson is on the border of CD5 (Koretz) and CD10 (Wesson), not CD11 (Bonin) Thanks. I CC'd Koretz. The intersection of Venice/Robertson Boulevards is in Koretz's district. Wesson's district starts at National Blvd. Culver City starts about 120 ft south of Venice Blvd's south edge.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 4, 2014 12:07:31 GMT -8
This is awful news. It's deplorable the way so many of the streets are managed. I'm incensed by the design and execution of the Overland Crossing for the Expo Line. I've expressed concerns for the speed of the cars and the safety of pedestians. Even the SKANSKA crew members whom I speak to daily working at the intersection share my concerns. I've spoken to my local councilman and had city engineers to the scene (no show from the actual designers of the intersection) and all seem agree that it isn't what "should be done". Will that change it? That remains to be seen. I fear is that it will end just as badly on Overland as it did on Venice today for someone and it still won't be fixed. It's crucial to listen to pedestrians who actually use the system for such traffic-safety matters.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Nov 4, 2014 12:32:38 GMT -8
This is awful news. It's deplorable the way so many of the streets are managed. I'm incensed by the design and execution of the Overland Crossing for the Expo Line. I've expressed concerns for the speed of the cars and the safety of pedestians. Even the SKANSKA crew members whom I speak to daily working at the intersection share my concerns. I've spoken to my local councilman and had city engineers to the scene (no show from the actual designers of the intersection) and all seem agree that it isn't what "should be done". Will that change it? That remains to be seen. I fear is that it will end just as badly on Overland as it did on Venice today for someone and it still won't be fixed. It's crucial to listen to pedestrians who actually use the system for such traffic-safety matters. I was there this morning. As a pedestrian and cyclist this is quite frustrating. Venice blvd is being WIDENED to allow faster car speeds. We should be building streets for people and not cars. It took this fatility to maybe question why LADOT/Metro is widening our roads instead of pedestrianizing them (i.e. Broadway in Downtown L.A. is the best example). We shouldn't have highways IN the city. Highways are meant for high speeds in long distance travel. Hope LADOT/Metro and People Street (Mayor Garcetti's initiative) get the message after this unfortunate incident.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 4, 2014 20:12:47 GMT -8
A few more details about this morning's tragedy. The teen -- a Hamilton High student -- was probably taking the train to the school. 16-year-old hit, killed by vehicle while crossing the street in PalmsPOSTED BY COLLEEN PARK ON NOVEMBER 4, 2014 IN CRIME A 16-year-old crossing a street in Palms was struck by a vehicle and killed Tuesday. A two-car collision occurred at Venice and Robertson boulevards about 7 a.m., causing the 16-year-old’s death, Los Angeles Police Officer Jane Kim said. The victim was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead. Both drivers stopped and rendered aid. Kim said she did not know the sex of the pedestrian. No other injuries were reported. — City News Service
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f ron
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Post by f ron on Nov 5, 2014 8:41:02 GMT -8
This is awful news. It's deplorable the way so many of the streets are managed. I'm incensed by the design and execution of the Overland Crossing for the Expo Line. I've expressed concerns for the speed of the cars and the safety of pedestians. Even the SKANSKA crew members whom I speak to daily working at the intersection share my concerns. I've spoken to my local councilman and had city engineers to the scene (no show from the actual designers of the intersection) and all seem agree that it isn't what "should be done". Will that change it? That remains to be seen. I fear is that it will end just as badly on Overland as it did on Venice today for someone and it still won't be fixed. It's crucial to listen to pedestrians who actually use the system for such traffic-safety matters. Yes, well clearly they don't and the result is a six lane highway posing as a neighborhood street with blind turns emptying out onto a crosswalk rather than the original four lane road and a bridged crossing. People be damned they have cars, trucks and trains to accommodate and they need to get as many as they can through this intersection as quickly as possible. Someone is going to get hurt or worse.
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andop2
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by andop2 on Nov 5, 2014 8:56:36 GMT -8
It's crucial to listen to pedestrians who actually use the system for such traffic-safety matters. Yes, well clearly they don't and the result is a six lane highway posing as a neighborhood street with blind turns emptying out onto a crosswalk rather than the original four lane road and a bridged crossing. People be damned they have cars, trucks and trains to accommodate and they need to get as many as they can through this intersection as quickly as possible. Someone is going to get hurt or worse. The need to protect pedestrians is indeed key (the lack of crossing at Robertson on Venice south side between Expo and Del Taco is inexcusable, and jaywalkers cross there in heavy traffic anyway, creating a very dangerous situation). That being said, the facts are that Venice Blvd has always been a six lane highway (not a four lane road). In fact it is state highway 187 under jurisdiction of Caltrans, not LADOT.
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f ron
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Post by f ron on Nov 5, 2014 9:08:12 GMT -8
Yes, well clearly they don't and the result is a six lane highway posing as a neighborhood street with blind turns emptying out onto a crosswalk rather than the original four lane road and a bridged crossing. People be damned they have cars, trucks and trains to accommodate and they need to get as many as they can through this intersection as quickly as possible. Someone is going to get hurt or worse. The need to protect pedestrians is indeed key (the lack of crossing at Robertson on Venice south side between Expo and Del Taco is inexcusable, and jaywalkers cross there in heavy traffic anyway, creating a very dangerous situation). That being said, the facts are that Venice Blvd has always been a six lane highway (not a four lane road). In fact it is state highway 187 under jurisdiction of Caltrans, not LADOT. I was referring to the just-widened, and thoughtlessly designed intersection of Overland Avenue and the Expo line when I referenced the four to six lane conversion. Which is why I quoted the conversation to establish the context. Apologies if it seemed confusing.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 5, 2014 10:24:40 GMT -8
the lack of crossing at Robertson on Venice south side between Expo and Del Taco is inexcusable, and jaywalkers cross there in heavy traffic anyway, creating a very dangerous situation There is a crossing between Del Taco and Expo (across Robertson) but no crossing between Del Taco and CVS (across Venice).
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Post by RMoses on Nov 5, 2014 11:30:33 GMT -8
A few more details about this morning's tragedy. The teen -- a Hamilton High student -- was probably taking the train to the school. 16-year-old hit, killed by vehicle while crossing the street in PalmsPOSTED BY COLLEEN PARK ON NOVEMBER 4, 2014 IN CRIME A 16-year-old crossing a street in Palms was struck by a vehicle and killed Tuesday. A two-car collision occurred at Venice and Robertson boulevards about 7 a.m., causing the 16-year-old’s death, Los Angeles Police Officer Jane Kim said. The victim was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead. Both drivers stopped and rendered aid. Kim said she did not know the sex of the pedestrian. No other injuries were reported. — City News Service Was the 16 yo jaywalking or hit in a marked crosswalk with right of way?
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 5, 2014 11:59:40 GMT -8
How the car culture in America created the concept of "jaywalking": Jaywalking: How the car industry outlawed crossing the roadBy Aidan Lewis BBC News, WashingtonThe idea of being fined for crossing the road at the wrong place can bemuse foreign visitors to the US, where the origins of so-called jaywalking lie in a propaganda campaign by the motor industry in the 1920s.The California Vehicle Code states: "No pedestrian shall start crossing in direction of a flashing or steady "DON'T WALK" or upraised hand symbol." It also forbids crossing between controlled intersections, or "jaywalking". Late last year, police began a concerted effort to enforce the rules in central Los Angeles. Pedestrians had been "impeding traffic and causing too many accidents and deaths", one traffic police official said. Fines range from $190-$250 (£115-£152). Then in New York officials responded to several pedestrian deaths last month by issuing a flurry of tickets for jaywalking. The campaign quickly ran into controversy when an 84-year-old Chinese immigrant who had been stopped for jaywalking suffered a gash to his head during an altercation with the police. Enforcement of anti-jaywalking laws in the US is sporadic, often only triggered by repeated complaints from drivers about pedestrian behaviour in a particular place. But jaywalking remains illegal across the country, and has been for many decades. The first known reference to it dates to December 1913, says Peter Norton, a history professor at the University of Virginia and author of Fighting Traffic - The Dawn of the Motor Age in the American City. That month a department store in Syracuse hired a Santa Claus who stood on the street with a megaphone, bellowing at people who didn't cross properly and calling them jaywalkers. Countries where jaywalkers are fined: US, Australia, Canada, China, Germany, Philippines, Singapore "I don't know how this got to Syracuse, but in mid-western slang a jay was a person from the country who was an empty-headed chatterbox, like a bluejay," he says. The word was first used to describe "someone from the countryside who goes to the city and is so dazzled by the lights and the show windows that they keep stopping and getting in the way of other pedestrians". The use of jaywalking as a term of ridicule against pedestrians crossing roads took off in the 1920s. A key moment, says Norton, was a petition signed by 42,000 people in Cincinnati in 1923 to limit the speed of cars mechanically to 25mph (40kph). Though the petition failed, an alarmed auto industry scrambled to shift the blame for pedestrian casualties from drivers to walkers. Local car firms got boy scouts to hand out cards to pedestrians explaining jaywalking. "These kids would be posted on sidewalks and when they saw someone starting to jaywalk they'd hand them one of these cards," says Norton. "It would tell them that it was dangerous and old fashioned and that it's a new era and we can't cross streets that way." Image of a card handed to pedestrians in Hartford, Connecticut, in 1921. Reproduced in Street Rivals: Jaywalking and the invention of the Motor Age by Peter Norton, Technology and Culture, Volume 48, Number 2, April 2007.Clowns were commonly used in parades or pageants to portray jaywalkers as a throwback to rural, ignorant, pre-motor age ways. Another ruse was to provide local newspapers with a free service. Reporters would submit a few facts about local traffic accidents to Detroit, and the auto industry's safety committee would send back a full report on the situation in their city. "The newspaper coverage quite suddenly changes, so that in 1923 they're all blaming the drivers, and by late 1924 they're all blaming jaywalking," Norton says. Soon, he adds, car lobby groups also started taking over school safety education, stressing that "streets are for cars and children need to stay out of them". Anti-jaywalking laws were adopted in many cities in the late 1920s, and became the norm by the 1930s. Breakdown of all trips made in the US:Driving: 83% Walking: 10.4% Other (includes cycling): 4.2% Public transport: 1.9% Source: National Household Travel Survey, 2009In the decades that followed, the cultural ascendancy of the car was secured as the auto industry promoted "America's love affair with the automobile". Car makers portrayed them as the ultimate expression of personal freedom, an essential element of the "American dream". Meanwhile, an overriding goal of city planners and engineers became allowing traffic to circulate unhindered. "For years, pedestrians were essentially written out of the equation when it came to designing streets," says Tom Vanderbilt, author of Traffic - Why We Drive the Way We Do. "They didn't even appear in early computer models, and when they did, it was largely for their role as 'impedance' - blocking vehicle traffic." This made US cities unusually hostile to walkers, says Vanderbilt. Jaywalking became an "often misunderstood umbrella term", covering many situations in which the pedestrian should in fact have the right of way. Some countries have followed the lead of the US and imposed anti-jaywalking measures. Police in China began a fresh push to stop jaywalking last year, fining offenders and in Shanghai, making them read out traffic regulations aloud. People cross the road in Beijing, May 2013. Beijing was one Chinese city where police began fining jaywalkers last year.Elsewhere, in Cairo say, or Calcutta, a lack of rules, enforcement and pedestrian infrastructure mean that the only way to cross the road is often by launching oneself into the oncoming traffic. The UK is among those countries where jaywalking is not an offence. But the rate of pedestrian deaths is half that of the US, at 0.736 per 100,000 inhabitants in 2011 compared to 1.422 per 100,000 in America. Even in Singapore, where repeated jaywalking offences can lead to a $1,000 fine or a six month jail term, rules are routinely flouted. There has been resistance in the US too. Newspaper reports from the 1920s show that many were irritated by the cards handed out by boy scouts, says Peter Norton. In New York, an earlier effort to crack down on jaywalking under former mayor Rudy Giuliani met with opposition from police officers who said they had better things to do. And in Los Angeles, the setting for The Pedestrian, Ray Bradbury's dystopian science-fiction short story from 1951, walkers and cyclists have recently become more common downtown. When the LAPD advertised the anti-jaywalking campaign on its Facebook page, responses accused the police of seeking an easy source of revenue by fining people with the means to pay, and of wasting their time. "I love how I see people getting jaywalking tickets everyday at the corner of 5th and Broadway by our loft, and yet I can't walk to my car without getting offered… any variety of hardcore narcotics," wrote one woman in a message that ended "#priorities". Advocates for walking say drivers are most often to blame for pedestrian deaths and injuries, and that there is no evidence to prove that anti-jaywalking campaigns are effective. That rings true for John Moffat, a former commander of Seattle's traffic police. Seattle was known for being especially strict on jaywalking, and Moffat calculated that some 500,000 tickets had been issued there between the 1930s and the 1980s. But he oversaw a change of policy in 1988 after a study in the city showed that the most vulnerable pedestrians were the elderly, children and drunks - not jaywalkers. "Are they the ones ending up in the morgue or in hospital?" he says. "The answer is no, and the reason is that most of them are pretty fleet of foot and agile." Some think that the success of several projects to make US cities more walkable is a sign of hope for pedestrians. But there is little experimentation with more radical projects such as shared space, which aims to reduce traffic speed by removing the distinction between streets and pavements. And fines for jaywalking look set to continue, says Ray Thomas, a lawyer in Portland, Oregon, who specialises in pedestrian and bicycle law. "People in law-enforcement tend to identify with a motorist's perspective", he says. Wherever there's a push to protect the rights of pedestrians, officials feel they also need to enforce limits on them. "It's their version of being fair," he says. "The difference is that no jaywalking pedestrian ever ran down and killed a driver, and by sheer survival strategy most pedestrians don't jaywalk in front of cars."
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Post by RMoses on Nov 5, 2014 15:20:58 GMT -8
A few more details about this morning's tragedy. The teen -- a Hamilton High student -- was probably taking the train to the school. 16-year-old hit, killed by vehicle while crossing the street in PalmsPOSTED BY COLLEEN PARK ON NOVEMBER 4, 2014 IN CRIME A 16-year-old crossing a street in Palms was struck by a vehicle and killed Tuesday. A two-car collision occurred at Venice and Robertson boulevards about 7 a.m., causing the 16-year-old’s death, Los Angeles Police Officer Jane Kim said. The victim was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead. Both drivers stopped and rendered aid. Kim said she did not know the sex of the pedestrian. No other injuries were reported. — City News Service Was the 16 yo jaywalking or hit in a marked crosswalk with right of way? KTLA reports that LAPD detectives stated the teen crossed against a red light and no charges filed. They also stated there was some confusion with timing of the crossing signal, but did not provide any footage.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 5, 2014 15:36:48 GMT -8
KTLA reports that LAPD detectives stated the teen crossed against a red light and no charges filed. They also stated there was some confusion with timing of the crossing signal, but did not provide any footage. On Venice Blvd, westbound traffic gets a red light first and then the eastbound traffic gets a red light after 15 - 20 seconds. So, perhaps the teen, crossing northbound, saw the westbound traffic stopped and jumped into the road without realizing that people were driving 35 - 55 MPH (speed limit is 35 MPH but people drive fast) on the eastbound lanes. Also, the K-rails behind which the pedestrians are waiting are placed right next to the traffic lane without a safety margin. My complaint regarding the push button may have contributed to it. Sometimes people forget to push it and they never get a green. Perhaps that's what happened in this case and the kid was getting frustrated. There is really no reason at this intersection to require a button to be pushed by the pedestrians. I heard rumors that the two cars may have collided and then hit the teen but I didn't see any damage on them other then the windshield on the first one; so, my guess is the yellow Fiat hit the teen and threw it in front of the old Buick, which seems to have horrifically run over him. Drive slow, especially in construction zones, watch for pedestrians etc., and don't use phones, eat / drink / put makeup etc. when you are driving. This tragedy could still be avoided if the drivers were paying more attention to the road and driving more defensively. Also, it's a shame that Skanska hasn't put a strict 25 MPH speed limit during the Venice Blvd reconstruction. Among Skanska's ignorance of safety, LADOT's ignorance of pedestrians, and drivers who take things granted, a life was very sadly lost.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 5, 2014 15:48:44 GMT -8
It's now confirmed that the eastbound yellow Fiat in the middle lane hit the teen first, threw him 100 ft onto the path of the eastbound old Buick in the left lane, which then ran over and killed him.
Causes of the accident:
(1) Teen being confused by the westbound traffic stopping and crossing against the red light. (2) Drivers driving too fast and not paying enough attention to the road. (3) Skanska failing to implement a standard 25 MPH speed limit in a construction zone. (4) Completely unnecessary pedestrian push button that may have been forgot to be pushed and frustrated the pedestrians with the green not being available.
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Post by usmc1401 on Nov 6, 2014 10:47:41 GMT -8
Last night 11/5/2014 on TV Ch 5 or 11 had a story on this teens death. The mother with supporting video shows that the walk sign is not in sync with the turning auto traffic. In short cars are given the green to turn when people are still crossing the street.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 6, 2014 11:17:08 GMT -8
Last night 11/5/2014 on TV Ch 5 or 11 had a story on this teens death. The mother with supporting video shows that the walk sign is not in sync with the turning auto traffic. In short cars are given the green to turn when people are still crossing the street. I don't know if this was the cause of this accident. They are talking about the southbound Robertson traffic starting to make a left turn onto eastbound Venice while the pedestrian light across Venice is still flashing. Yes, this is a safety issue but the pedestrian in this case may have got hit by the eastbound traffic on Venice. However, perhaps he got hit by the cars making a left turn. LAPD hasn't released any details. In that case, signals and drivers would both be to blame. Story on KTLA today: ktla.com/2014/11/05/family-of-teen-pedestrian-fatally-struck-in-palms-blames-traffic-light-malfunction-for-crash/This intersection has multiple issues for pedestrians. There were hardly any pedestrians before the train station opened and the train station brought tens of thousands of pedestrians a day. Nevertheless, LADOT has made no pedestrian enhancements. They also ignored my concerns I sent them early this year. In addition, they haven't reduced the speed limit during the construction. Unfortunately, this was murder in the making. LAPD is putting 100% of the blame on the teen because it appears that the teen crossed against a red. They think too simple and don't investigate the other factors. It's not clear what made the teen cross the street with cars coming. Could it have to do the with the push-button issue or some other signal issue? The drivers were probably speeding and distracted as well. I still don't understand how the second car coming from way behind couldn't avoid the teen lying on the ground or trying to get up but ran him over. He/she was more than likely speeding, and/or, distracted, and/or not fit to drive. They will hopefully at least do something now and improve the pedestrian safety and convenience. I am glad that the NAACP has got involved. Victims in such accidents are much more likely to be ignored because of their color.
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Post by RMoses on Nov 6, 2014 11:30:12 GMT -8
Last night 11/5/2014 on TV Ch 5 or 11 had a story on this teens death. The mother with supporting video shows that the walk sign is not in sync with the turning auto traffic. In short cars are given the green to turn when people are still crossing the street. No fault exists unless there is a green signal arrow coming from Exposition to turn left on Venice while simultaneously showing the walk signal, vehicles never have right of way to make a left turn on a green light with pedestrians present.
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 6, 2014 13:36:45 GMT -8
Last night 11/5/2014 on TV Ch 5 or 11 had a story on this teens death. The mother with supporting video shows that the walk sign is not in sync with the turning auto traffic. In short cars are given the green to turn when people are still crossing the street. No fault exists unless there is a green signal arrow coming from Exposition to turn left on Venice while simultaneously showing the walk signal, vehicles never have right of way to make a left turn on a green light with pedestrians present. Channel 5 has just reported that because of the news coverage, LADOT has said they will adjust the signal timing so that no cars can turn until the walk cycle is finished.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Nov 6, 2014 14:50:20 GMT -8
No fault exists unless there is a green signal arrow coming from Exposition to turn left on Venice while simultaneously showing the walk signal, vehicles never have right of way to make a left turn on a green light with pedestrians present. Channel 5 has just reported that because of the news coverage, LADOT has said they will adjust the signal timing so that no cars can turn until the walk cycle is finished. This is how things work in Los Angeles— At least one person has to die for pedestrians to adequately be protected from speeding drivers. LADOT and CalTrans have no foresight, no creativity, and no credibility for the stewardship of safe or equitable streets. This is why sidewalks are in bad shape, this is why 2 million people ride buses in a county where there's hardly any bus lanes created in the 50 years after the demise of the original rail system, this is why when tasked with a mandate for bike lanes LADOT builds them in Wilmington miles away from the urban core and to this day there isn't a single north-south bike lane in central Los Angeles (other than near USC), this is why a speeding tow truck could go 60 miles an hour and crash into a Metro bus killing one last year and another accident happened in the same place weeks later before LADOT rammed through changes to the street, and this is why a madman could drive his speeding car down the Venice boardwalk killing one before the city dusted off plans to install bollards. Ciclavia is nice (and quarterly), but what for the people who are trying to live their lives using streets that the people with power uncompromisingly yield to the will of speeding and parking cars on?
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 6, 2014 23:16:28 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 7, 2014 15:10:33 GMT -8
Here are two videos taken yesterday evening, the first from the southeastern corner on which the teen got struck and run over and the second from the opposite (northwestern) corner. It looks like it's a 2-minute cycle at the Venice/Robertson intersection. Most intersections have an 80-second cycle. Note, at the beginning the of the first video, the speeding cars running the red light. Photo and video albumFrom the amount of the stopping distance between the two cars that hit and ran over the teen, I am pretty sure that the driver of the second car, which ran over the teen, was speeding and/or distracted.
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Post by masonite on Nov 7, 2014 15:24:41 GMT -8
Here are two videos taken yesterday evening, the first from the southeastern corner on which the teen got struck and run over and the second from the opposite (northwestern) corner. It looks like it's a 2-minute cycle at the Venice/Robertson intersection. Most intersections have an 80-second cycle. Note, at the beginning the of the first video, the speeding cars running the red light. Photo and video albumFrom the amount of the stopping distance between the two cars that hit and ran over the teen, I am pretty sure that the driver of the second car, which ran over the teen, was speeding and/or distracted. One of Expo's big problems is that many of its stations are in terrible pedestrian zones. Stations like Culver City, La Cienaga, La Brea, and even Crenshaw. Phase II is even worse in most cases. Venice, Olympic, La Cienega, Crenshaw, La Brea are streets really built for the car with Venice and Crenshaw being two of the worst despite having been streetcar streets back in the day.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 7, 2014 15:32:24 GMT -8
Venice, Olympic, La Cienega, Crenshaw, La Brea are streets really built for the car with Venice and Crenshaw being two of the worst despite having been streetcar streets back in the day. Entire LA was rebuilt for cars after the Pacific Electric and Los Angeles Railways were dismantled. Venice Blvd, on which the teen was run over, was a light-rail right-of-way, not a state highway. So, in that sense, there is no place to put transit, but that will change slowly, despite the resistance from LADOT, public, etc. I would also like to see Venice Blvd becoming light-rail again one day.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Nov 7, 2014 15:53:31 GMT -8
One of Expo's big problems is that many of its stations are in terrible pedestrian zones. Stations like Culver City, La Cienaga, La Brea, and even Crenshaw. Phase II is even worse in most cases. Venice, Olympic, La Cienega, Crenshaw, La Brea are streets really built for the car with Venice and Crenshaw being two of the worst despite having been streetcar streets back in the day. Amen! Phase 2 is a disgrace in terms of what it's done for pedestrian street safety to my neighborhood.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Nov 7, 2014 22:53:31 GMT -8
One of Expo's big problems is that many of its stations are in terrible pedestrian zones. Stations like Culver City, La Cienaga, La Brea, and even Crenshaw. Phase II is even worse in most cases. Venice, Olympic, La Cienega, Crenshaw, La Brea are streets really built for the car with Venice and Crenshaw being two of the worst despite having been streetcar streets back in the day. Amen! Phase 2 is a disgrace in terms of what it's done for pedestrian street safety to my neighborhood. You mean like cutting down all the trees to improve sight lines so it is "safer" to speed through residential neighborhoods?
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Nov 7, 2014 23:22:55 GMT -8
Amen! Phase 2 is a disgrace in terms of what it's done for pedestrian street safety to my neighborhood. You mean like cutting down all the trees to improve sight lines so it is "safer" to speed through residential neighborhoods? Cutting down trees is just a boneheaded decision. Widening the streets from four lanes to six is where the reckless speeds begin. The greatest threat to pedestrian safety is at the intersection of Overland and Northvale road. The crosswalk there has been reset and is no longer visible to cars making the turn. The turn has been softened and now it can be made at a higher speed than before. Not only is the painted crosswalk unseeable by cars but due to the placement of the crossing gates, OSC poles and green fencing it's impossible to sight pedestrians as the intersection approaches. It's sadly only a matter of time before someone is hurt or worse. The intersection works exactly as it was designed to do, get as many cars as quickly as possible through it before the gates come down. Unfortunately pedestrians weren't a consideration in the design. Only cars and trains.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 6, 2015 10:51:13 GMT -8
Things have got a lot worse for the pedestrians since the completion of the Venice Boulevard widening. The crossing distance for the pedestrians is now huge. On top of that, many cars are now running red lights every time with the two left turns put for from westbound Venice to northbound Robertson Boulevards. This is a backward step for pedestrians and public transit.
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Post by TransportationZ on Jan 12, 2015 9:59:10 GMT -8
When it comes to Caltrans and LADOT especially, everything is 2nd to the Automobile. There could be 10,000 pedestrians, and buses full of hundreds of people crossing a street 10 times an hour and LADOT would still give priority to the automobile.
From Gokhan's emails, it's quite clear that they will do anything to not delay car traffic, even if it means giving up optimal safety conditions.
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