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Post by RMoses on May 9, 2016 11:59:18 GMT -8
There is not a single spot to legally drop someone off at the 4th St Terminus in SM while traveling northbound on 4th St from Pico Blvd all the way to Broadway.
4th St is the primary access point from the south as 5th St does not cross the freeway and Colorado is WB only.
How does one design a terminal with no direct access for vehicles to drop off the majority of passengers at the station? Clearly a curb-cut or equivalent should have been designed into the terminus layout. The access from 5th St will be of no benefit for over 50% of the originating riders that are dropped off.
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Post by chuckchuck on May 9, 2016 14:57:18 GMT -8
I'm not too familiar with the area but the oversight you describe doesn't surprise me. A lot of our transit stations are designed without context to their surroundings with only one dedication ingress/egress point. Hollywood/Highland, Hollywood/Vine, Wilshire/Vermont stand out as huge stations with limited access points considering the volume of passengers they handle. I suspect this station will be another example.
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Post by joshuanickel on May 9, 2016 16:14:02 GMT -8
There is not a single spot to legally drop someone off at the 4th St Terminus in SM while traveling northbound on 4th St from Pico Blvd all the way to Broadway. 4th St is the primary access point from the south as 5th St does not cross the freeway and Colorado is WB only. How does one design a terminal with no direct access for vehicles to drop off the majority of passengers at the station? Clearly a curb-cut or equivalent should have been designed into the terminus layout. The access from 5th St will be of no benefit for over 50% of the originating riders that are dropped off. When the drop off area that the city is building was first being proposed, there was discussion about a curb-cut with a future signal to allow through access off of 4th street and is even shown as a future option on the plans:  The way I understand it, the curb-cut could not be implemented at this time for a few reasons. The first reason was that Caltrans would have to give permission since any curb-cut would encroach on to the 4th street bridge structure that goes up and over the 10 freeway. You can see the bridge railing in this photo:  The second was due to the proximity to the 4th street off ramp from the freeway. Adding the curb-cut would basically be like adding another intersection and there would not be enough queue space between the 4th street off ramp, the new curb-cut, and Colorado. The way to resolve this conflict is the city's long term plan to move the off ramp to cross over the freeway and line up with Olympic Drive which would allow enough space between signalized intersections:  |
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Post by bzcat on May 10, 2016 11:12:07 GMT -8
You have to very unfamiliar with the area to want to drop off someone on 4th street. During rush hour, 4th street is no-go zone because of the freeway offramp.
If you are coming to DTSM from the south, you can take Main St or Lincoln blvd and drop off on Colorado - much better for both driver and the person getting dropped off.
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Post by RMoses on May 10, 2016 13:06:13 GMT -8
You have to very unfamiliar with the area to want to drop off someone on 4th street. During rush hour, 4th street is no-go zone because of the freeway offramp. If you are coming to DTSM from the south, you can take Main St or Lincoln blvd and drop off on Colorado - much better for both driver and the person getting dropped off. The problem is tourists, many locals in a rush and all rideshare drivers will look to drop as close as possible to 4th and Colorado. Navigation Apps will direct you to 4th St. Diverting to Lincoln Blvd from the south (when west of Lincoln) will double the distance/time; Main St is the best alternative, but again no one has highlighted this option. There is actually ample space just north of SM City Hall. Often, 4th St is backed up going north and as a result will provide opportunity to be dropped off; but vehicles exiting the freeway and others traveling north will not be expecting cars to stop between Olympic and Colorado provide ample opportunity for accidents. |
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Post by RMoses on May 10, 2016 16:42:50 GMT -8
There is not a single spot to legally drop someone off at the 4th St Terminus in SM while traveling northbound on 4th St from Pico Blvd all the way to Broadway. 4th St is the primary access point from the south as 5th St does not cross the freeway and Colorado is WB only. How does one design a terminal with no direct access for vehicles to drop off the majority of passengers at the station? Clearly a curb-cut or equivalent should have been designed into the terminus layout. The access from 5th St will be of no benefit for over 50% of the originating riders that are dropped off. When the drop off area that the city is building was first being proposed, there was discussion about a curb-cut with a future signal to allow through access off of 4th street and is even shown as a future option on the plans: The way I understand it, the curb-cut could not be implemented at this time for a few reasons. The first reason was that Caltrans would have to give permission since any curb-cut would encroach on to the 4th street bridge structure that goes up and over the 10 freeway. You can see the bridge railing in this photo: The second was due to the proximity to the 4th street off ramp from the freeway. Adding the curb-cut would basically be like adding another intersection and there would not be enough queue space between the 4th street off ramp, the new curb-cut, and Colorado. The way to resolve this conflict is the city's long term plan to move the off ramp to cross over the freeway and line up with Olympic Drive which would allow enough space between signalized intersections: Thanks for the pix, I walked the area today, the bridge abutment along with 2 drains in the vicinity and a telecommunications vault could have been the reason to punt the issue; however it still is no excuse when designing a major station in a busy area and not provide fluid drop off points. Not everyone will walk, bike or bus. |
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Post by tramfan on May 11, 2016 13:09:54 GMT -8
The interesting thing is that there's an underpass at 4th Street from the Sears parking lot to the Kiss & Ride lot North of the station. I always thought that this underpass was going to be utilized for whatever was planned North of the station; apparently not.
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Post by jamesinclair on May 12, 2016 6:52:15 GMT -8
You have to very unfamiliar with the area to want to drop off someone on 4th street. During rush hour, 4th street is no-go zone because of the freeway offramp. This is a good point. When you select the destination on Uber etc it will list the closest area as possible and the driver is expected to leave you there |
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