Post by bennyp81 on Jun 20, 2005 7:00:31 GMT -8
Jerard
User ID: 0944964 Mar 23rd 8:46 PM
Can you teach an old dog a new trick?
I was just curious to hear what makes riding on a bus so unbearable to some, yet completely comfortable to others.
Describe features/amenities that make riding the bus enjoyable/annoying.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 23rd 8:50 PM
Annoying:
ROUGH RIDE -- lots of jerking, swerving around to get to bus stops, slamming on the brakes at traffic lights and to avoid hitting other vehicles
INFREQUENT -- even at peak periods, 20-minute waits are not uncommon
SLOW -- they get stuck in the same traffic as my car, except they make more stops and I have to wait 20 minutes for it to arrive ... why don't I just drive?
HARD TO BOARD -- no-platform boarding makes it slower, plus you have to wait in that long line to pay the fare
NO ROUTES OR SCHEDULES POSTED -- you show up at a bus stop and unless you're a bus expert, you have no idea where the buses go or when they come. Supposedly the MTA is going to fix this by the end of the year.
Enjoyable:
Getting off the bus so I can transfer to the RED LINE!
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 23rd 8:52 PM
Add NOISY (huge engine roar) and POLLUTED (big clouds of diesel fumes when it pulls up to the bus stop) to the Annoying list. They also sometimes pull a no-show, so they are NOT RELIABLE.
PaulC
User ID: 9885643 Mar 24th 12:33 AM
Man, I think Roberto sum it up on these two post. I cant honestly think about anyother complaints that I have.
Paul
Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 24th 1:22 AM
Some on this board must use Public Transportation or have friends drive them around. Most of us must use our own means of transportation to get around. The few times that I did ride (or tried to ride) a bus proved to me that the bus was not the answer for traveling in Los Angeles.
=========
Bus drivers that will not call out stops, a blind man had to ask a me where the bus was so he could get off at the correct stop.
Had an empty bus that I was waiting for refuse to let me on, then change the sign to “Not In Service. Waited an additional 20 minutes for the next bus that runs every 5 minutes, no bus came by. Then walked over a mile uphill.
Non-coordinated, running ahead of and unrealistic bus schedules.
Busses take too long to travel through Downtown or any other high density area.
Lack of late night, let alone owl bus service.
Different fares asked by drivers for the same route.
Waiting for busses at stops with no benches or shelters.
Lack of lighting at many bus stops.
Lack of concrete pads at bus stops so you have to walk through mud when boarding/debarking the bus.
Poor coordination with other transit agencies.
Different fare structure and rules between transit agencies, for example different age requirements for seniors.
Vandalism on the bus.
Lack of Park and Ride and Kiss and Ride lots and stops.
Roberto stated a lot of other problems using bus that I don’t need to repeat here.
=========
The benefit in using the bus is that I would not have to drive. Another benefit would be that if the bus could take you where you are going without a transfer, or just one transfer with a minimum wait for the next bus.
Bob
Marty
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 1:45 AM
The #1 problem is (lack of) dependability. The only time I really use the bus is to catch the Red Line to go into downtown/Union Station. Whenever I'm in a big hurry, I get really nervous that the bus won't get me there in time. Every time, I'll plan waaay ahead and it'll still be a stressful experience - either waiting at the bus stop forever, getting stuck in traffic, or having to wait for clueless people to get on that are fumbling with nickels and dimes.
The bottom line is that there is no way of gauging when you're gonna arrive somewhere and when you need to leave. In John's hokey-pokey world this might not matter, but it does to me.
One thing I would NEVER do is take a bus to the airport - you could walk out the door the day before your flight and still be a little weary about if you're gonna make your flight or not. The only time the bus makes sense is for short trips that don't require transfers on lines that have frequent service, such as Westwood Blvd with its 5 BBBuses that go to UCLA.
PForce
User ID: 0596854 Mar 24th 1:47 AM
All of the above.
Plus: the ease with which routes and time schedules can be changed, lines that suddenly disappear without warning, unpredictablility, waiting late at night for a bus and suffering the leers of passing motorists, buses that come only every half hour or more, angry bus drivers, waiting in the rain for a bus and getting splashed by inconsiderate car dirvers, the bus that inexplicably never shows up when you are waiting in the rain on a winter evening (or in the morning when you overslept and are late for work), or trying to get to an important appointment on time (maybe for a job interview?), taking someone out on a date on a bus (always a disaster and usually the end of a promising new relationship), etc., etc. The story of my life.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 24th 4:07 AM
Yeah, Bob brought up a good one ... buses that pass by EARLY. I can't tell you how many times (when I was trying to use the buses regularly), I would be showing up early to make sure not to miss my bus, only to see it pass by while I was still 1/2 a block away. I would run to the bus stop, and get there just in time to breathe in the big cloud of diesel fumes as the bus pulled away.
Since the next one wasn't until a 1/2-hour later, I would have to run to an intersection about 2 blocks away to catch another bus going to a similar area at around the same time, but since that one sometimes came early too, I would also see it pass by when I was about a 1/2 a block away. Sometimes that driver would wait for me to run up. But then that one would always get stuck in traffic, so I would miss my transfer ... and then I would have to sit there for 45 minutes or so waiting for the next one ...
Now I just drive everywhere, and take Metro Rail only when I'm close enough to Norwalk to park there and ride. When the Gold Line opens, I'll be able to take it almost daily.
Jerard
User ID: 1655274 Mar 24th 8:15 AM
I am curious where do you all live?
Andrew S
User ID: 0269124 Mar 24th 10:04 AM
All of the above, plus in general having to wait for a bus on the hot, dirty, tiny, unsheltered little piece of sidewalk that remains after all other space has been dedicated to the free flow of vehicles.
After all, I am just an impediment to that flow of vehicles.
Jerard - Manhatan Beach
PForce
User ID: 0596854 Mar 24th 11:11 AM
I live in Venice, where the bus service is fairly decent. We have the Santa Monica Blue bus, which is a relatively good system, as bus systems go, and the MTA, which provides frequent, but uncomfortable and slow service from Santa Monica and Venice to downtown. I use all these buses a lot, not for convenience and speed, but out of sheer determination not to use my car for every dumb trip I make. I also walk a lot, often the 2-to-3 miles to Santa Monica from my house--still better than the bus anytime, unless it's raining.
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 11:22 AM
I like riding buses because they are usually relatively comfortable and spacious, smooth-riding, generally on-time and they get me where I want to go within a reasonable period of time. Also, I can enjoy the scenery and I don't have to experience the stress, fear, and guilt involved in driving a car.
Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 24th 1:01 PM
I live in Rolling Hills Estates. We just moved our office from Rosemead to Diamond Bar. I can take the Bus, but a 55 minute drive takes 3 hours plus using public transit. Plus, since I work late almost each night, I cannot get home because the 444 bus does not have night service. The last bus leaves before 7 pm from Union Station, and our office closes at 7 pm.
I know there is low ridership on the 444 and there is the LADOT 448 Commuter Express bus that looks just like the MTA busses, but the schedule is not shown on the MTA web site!
Yes John, I know I can move. But there are many reasons that prevents one from moving. I know that many residents that live on “The Hill” still would not use public transit. This could be its own thread: “Why doesn’t the UPPER CLASS use Public Transit.”
Bob
Marty
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 1:30 PM
Part of the problem w/ PV is that you're so secluded from everything and the bus ride up/down the hill takes forever, compared to a car. My parents live in RPV, and I used to take the 444 down to Del Amo when I was a kid. PV is just not designed for public transit, as you have to walk a pretty good distance up/downhill to even get to a major street such as Hawthorne. The only people that really use the bus in PV are maids and some high school students. The only hope would be to have a huge park and ride lot at Hawthorne and PCH for PV residents to drive down to and then connect w/ light rail.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 24th 3:38 PM
I live in Duarte right now. The FT 187 and 189 buses are notorious for passing by up to 15 minutes EARLY. And even when I would get there 15 minutes early, then the bus would pass by 17 or 18 minutes early, so I would still miss it. One week I missed it all 5 days in a row.
Then I would have to run a couple of blocks away to try to catch the MTA 177 to Pasadena, but even when I got it, I would still miss my 401 transfer in Pasadena ... the 177 gets stuck in some major gridlock trying to make a left turn in Pasadena at an intersection with no left-turn arrow ... the signal changes 3 or 4 times before the bus finally gets across. And then on the rare days I would get to my transfer point on time, the 401 would be 20 or 30 minutes late because it gets stuck in traffic on the 110.
I just got a message today from somebody at Foothill Transit that wants to talk to me about coordinating the 187 buses to the Gold Line when it opens. YES! Hopefully they can run a couple of later connecting buses since the Gold Line will run after midnight (the 187 stops a little bit after 11PM).
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 4:36 PM
Bob, yes, I think you are so right that many of those who live on "The Hill" (I suspect it would be the overwhelming majority) would never regularly use transit. And of course (it seems to me) this is exactly the reason why there is so very little transit there. My perception is that wherever transit ridership is very high, the service is usually very good, whereas where ridership is very low, it isn't. And this situation seems very logical to me, as I have indicated before.
I have a cousin who lives in Rancho Palos Verdes, and back when she and I used to meet for lunch once in awhile at the Marie Calendar's in that mall near Silver Spur & Hawthorne, I would take the #444 up "The Hill." I can recall waiting at least 45 minutes for it at the corner of PCH & Hawthorne, and I recall my anger about that. But I of course realized full well WHY the #444 ran up "The Hill" so infrequently, and thus it was somewhat comforting to know that the MTA was in no way to blame for the situation. And anyway, I only went up there about two or three times a year, and my partner and I lived in the South Bay then, so it wasn't so bad. Fortunately, the couple or so times a year that my cousin and I get together now, we meet in one of the shopping centers at Crenshaw & PCH, so I don't have to wait for the #444 at all! Did that mall near Silver Spur & PCH go completely out of business?
You mentioned the #448. When my partner and I lived in Torrance, I rode it back from Downtown occasionally, getting off before it turned to go south up "The Hill." And during a period when I did some extra work once or twice a week up on "The Hill," I remember taking either the #225 or the #226 bus up there; but I would always get a ride home afterwards, which, as I recall, was because the bus had stopped running by the time of night when the work sessions concluded.
Anyway, Bob, I am quite familiar with the poor transit situation on "The Hill." Indeed, I was frequently displeased by the transit situation in the South Bay in general; however, I always realized deep down that the MTA was not to blame for the frequently long waits for some of the buses, etc. I mean, I did realize that I was living in the 'burbs, so how could I expect the situation to be any different? For as long as my partner and I chose to continue living there, I knew that I had to endure the situation. It was our choice to live in the 'burbs; the MTA didn't force us to live there.
Believe me, I rejoice every day that we finally decided to move to the City of Los Angeles!
erict
User ID: 0784604 Mar 24th 4:36 PM
I try waiting for a certain bus in El Segundo - #124 I think, and some days it comes on time- while others it can be an hour behind schedule. The stop before is where the drivers take their "change counting" break and lunch break and they really don't care much about being on time. Most work part time- and are sent to different buses on different days. I have only had a train be an hour late once (green line) when they had an elictrical problem.
Jason S.
User ID: 8499503 Mar 24th 4:37 PM
Over Crowding.
Last time I rode the bus it was >packed<
Robert
User ID: 2037954 Mar 24th 9:02 PM
John,
I know that public transportation will not improve on “The Hill” for many years, if not decades. This is your SUV paradise. I would say that many residents that live here are SNOBS. It is against their status to ride any local public transit system; they would have to ride with the lower class low life common person that uses public transit.
Those of us who would like to use public transportation finds out that it is not practical, and we still must use our SUV. I was fortunate that for many years I was able to carpool to work and not have to drive alone.
We know for public transportation to be practical today, the area it serves must be high density, which is not the case for most of the South Bay Region, and even more so on “The Hill.”
How do we solve this problem? First, we require the majority of residents to insist on good public transportation, and then we can see how the problem could be solved. But there are so many other projects that should be solved first, I will just sit here and bad mouth the bad service we have here on “The Hill.”
Bob
Jerard
User ID: 0944964 Mar 24th 9:38 PM
I live off Vermont and 42nd Street, where did Manhattan Beach Come from?
Robert
User ID: 9447203 Mar 24th 10:44 PM
Jerard
Andrew was telling you he lived in Manhattan Beach, not you. That was the reason for the dash between your name and Andrews city.
Bob
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 11:09 PM
Bob, I do not for one second believe that ANYONE is forced to own or drive an SUV. Nor is anyone forced to buy a house or mansion on "The Hill."
Thank you, though, Bob, for providing what I consider to be an extremely honest as well as totally accurate description of many of those who choose to reside on "The Hill."
It indeed is no wonder that transit is and will continue to be so very limited on "The Hill."
Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Mar 26th 4:07 AM
It's not just snobs that refuses to ride busses etc. I know plenty of Gen Xr's and Yr's that are NOT fans of public transit. That may be because of the luxury car and SUV culture that many in that age brackett 'miracuously' are a part of (I wish I was!) But many I've talked to, including my friend that I rode with from San Diego to Warner Center by rail and bus last Thanksgiving, seem to share the attitude of, "Why take a bus/trolley/train when I can drive?"
Last Christmas, I had dinner with some friends who's post college grad son from Detroit was visiting. I was telling them all about the F4E and other websites like this. I remember his surprise when I told him of LA's Red Line subway and how nice the stations are. He then told us about how he'd only been on a train once, in Chicago, and how it was interesting but it wasn't his cup of tea. Now here's the interesting part, he went on to say that he'd rather drive and everyone he knows would rather drive than take a train. Of course by that time I was shocked that someone would feel that way, but I soon found out that there are many young people who'd rather drive their SUV's with the TV screens and expensive sound systems and chrome wheels etc.
But I'm sure they'd feel different once LA's rail system is expanded to serve more people's needs and actually go where people want to go...if even for special events ie: Staple Center events, Dodger games etc.
PForce: As far as losing out on special dates because you had to take the bbbus, the one thing I liked about NYC and even San Francisco when I was younger was the fact that public transit was such an intergral part of 'city living' that it was perfectly acceptable to take the subway, BART, Muni streetcars etc on a date or to hang out with friends. But I'm sure that now, even those cities have SUV-itis with it's burgeoning affluent young people.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 26th 4:24 AM
Where do these people live? Malibu? Beverly Hills? Del Mar?
I don't know alot of 20 and 30-year olds that own luxury cars. I know those people exist, but it's hardly fair to call them typical ... they are hardly representative of the income bracket that most young people in L.A. County fall into. Therefore, I wouldn't call their values "typical" of 20 or 30-year olds because their financial situation is so different from the norm.
I would bet the house that the vast majority of luxury car owners are 40+ years of age.
Andrew S
User ID: 8492403 Mar 26th 10:35 AM
It was short for Jerard, I live in Manhattan Beach! (in reponse to your request)
mike wills
User ID: 1181464 Mar 26th 12:26 PM
Most people have listed the disadvantages of taking the bus, so I'll start with the advantages for me.
1) Busses mean that I don't have to own a car. I can't begin to tell you how big an advantage that is for me.
2) In L.A., the bus system is comprehensive in that if I want to go somewhere, public transit will get me there... eventually
3) Bikes on busses. I really like this relatively recent innovation, although I have only used it in an emegency situation. Still, I'm glad that it is there.
4) I can read on the bus; something that few other modes of transportation allow me to do, and that includes my preferred mode of cycling. (I currently live in Santa Barbara, and UCSB, where I go to school is less than a mile away)
5) I don't feel stranded if I arrive at a railway station, and no one is there to pick me up. I know some people who seem to think that the public transit experience should end after one gets off the train, thus causing inconvenience for other people.
6) I've been riding L.A. busses most of my life so they are very familiar.
7) They're cheap. A monthly pass is quite reasonably priced, especially when compared with petrol, parking and auto insurance.
Disadvantages
Most of my complaints have already been made:
delays, unreliability, crowding, incredibly slow travel times
I guess about the only reason that I would ever want to own a car is for grocery shopping. Any other reasons that come up for driving somewhere come up infrequently enough to justify renting a car.
However, I lie a little bit. My wife does own a car, which I cannot drive since I never learned how to drive a manual. Since she is a housewife, and I am a fulltime graduate student, she does most of the grocery shopping, and all of the driving. I am rarely a passenger since I bike most places here.
I therefore should say that I do not intend to own a car for myself anytime soon.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 26th 3:02 PM
But why should we have buses? Should we establish new bus routes to meet unmet needs?
I am pushing for letters to support the establishment of an All Day, Seven Day per week bus service between the San Fernando Valley, the Santa Clarita Valley and the Antelope Valley.
Try taking a job in Santa Clarita any time on Sunday and most of the day Saturday (get there before 9 a.m. or leave after 4 p.m.), if you live in the other two Valley's and don't drive.
When I asked the Valley Industry and Commerce Association (VICA) to write me a letter of support for this proposed bus service, I got the following reply:
"Bart, VICA has a specific process to take positions before writing letters of support. I'm sorry it will cause us to miss the March 31 deadline however we invite you to make your case, if you still want to, at the VICA Transportation Committee meeting in May.
Please contact me to agenda this item. I think people will want numbers of riders, jobs, impact on workers, etc. so please prepare accordingly.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Bonny"
Now, I am going to make a presentation to them as they have requested.
Do any of you have the time or ability to help me put together a short report on numbers of riders, jobs, impact on workers?
Please post here or send via e-mail to:
transitcoalition@earthlink.net
Bart!
Þ--Þ--Þ
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 26th 5:09 PM
Bart, it sounds as though the majority of people who live and/or work out there don't see a need for the bus service you describe. Is it a rural/small town sort of area? Most rural/small town areas don't have much bus service, as far as I know.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 26th 7:02 PM
Actually, John, I live part time in Watsonville.
A community of 42,000. Sylmar has 71,000. Who has more bus service?
Watsonville.
Þ--Þ--Þ
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 26th 8:50 PM
Hmm. I guess Watsonville also has more pride.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 27th 12:16 AM
Here is what I wrote VICA, the Valley Industry and Commerce Association:
Hi Bonny:
I would be delighted to make a presentation to your committee in May 2003. What is the date and time? How much time would I have to present? Number of reports to prepare?
Also, you can still, under your personal letter-head, write to request bus service between the San Fernando, Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley.
The need to help folks get to jobs is immense. For example, just in the 15 square miles of Sylmar, Population: 70M, we have over $1 Billion in payroll. Providing mobility and access to jobs to those who can no longer receive welfare is a major social goal. And we have over 20 miles of arterials within the northeast Valley without Transit Bus Service.
On Monday, June 23, the MTA starts a new 5 day per week bus service that connects the Sylmar Metrolink station with Cascades Business Park and the Ventura Blvd. business district. The park
has over 2,000 jobs and still will have no access by transit from the North County areas.
Large employers such as Six Flags Magic Mountain like to recruit from the huge employment pool in the northeast San Fernando Valley. Six Flags has continuing problems filling staff positions as there is no public transit on Sundays.
I have talked with employees who have had to spend the night in the bathroom at Magic Mountain, as they missed their ride home on Saturday or their junker car broke down in the parking lot. There are a lot of other Santa Clarita and San Fernando Valley employers that would benefit from All Day, Every Day transit connecting Valley-to-Valley.
The Los Angeles Times did a groundbreaking story on the unmet transportation needs from Valley-to-Valley.
So, I would be most pleased if you could come forth with your personal support, as VICA will meet after the deadline.
Sincerely yours,
Bart Reed
Þ--Þ--Þ
User ID: 0944964 Mar 23rd 8:46 PM
Can you teach an old dog a new trick?
I was just curious to hear what makes riding on a bus so unbearable to some, yet completely comfortable to others.
Describe features/amenities that make riding the bus enjoyable/annoying.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 23rd 8:50 PM
Annoying:
ROUGH RIDE -- lots of jerking, swerving around to get to bus stops, slamming on the brakes at traffic lights and to avoid hitting other vehicles
INFREQUENT -- even at peak periods, 20-minute waits are not uncommon
SLOW -- they get stuck in the same traffic as my car, except they make more stops and I have to wait 20 minutes for it to arrive ... why don't I just drive?
HARD TO BOARD -- no-platform boarding makes it slower, plus you have to wait in that long line to pay the fare
NO ROUTES OR SCHEDULES POSTED -- you show up at a bus stop and unless you're a bus expert, you have no idea where the buses go or when they come. Supposedly the MTA is going to fix this by the end of the year.
Enjoyable:
Getting off the bus so I can transfer to the RED LINE!
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 23rd 8:52 PM
Add NOISY (huge engine roar) and POLLUTED (big clouds of diesel fumes when it pulls up to the bus stop) to the Annoying list. They also sometimes pull a no-show, so they are NOT RELIABLE.
PaulC
User ID: 9885643 Mar 24th 12:33 AM
Man, I think Roberto sum it up on these two post. I cant honestly think about anyother complaints that I have.
Paul
Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 24th 1:22 AM
Some on this board must use Public Transportation or have friends drive them around. Most of us must use our own means of transportation to get around. The few times that I did ride (or tried to ride) a bus proved to me that the bus was not the answer for traveling in Los Angeles.
=========
Bus drivers that will not call out stops, a blind man had to ask a me where the bus was so he could get off at the correct stop.
Had an empty bus that I was waiting for refuse to let me on, then change the sign to “Not In Service. Waited an additional 20 minutes for the next bus that runs every 5 minutes, no bus came by. Then walked over a mile uphill.
Non-coordinated, running ahead of and unrealistic bus schedules.
Busses take too long to travel through Downtown or any other high density area.
Lack of late night, let alone owl bus service.
Different fares asked by drivers for the same route.
Waiting for busses at stops with no benches or shelters.
Lack of lighting at many bus stops.
Lack of concrete pads at bus stops so you have to walk through mud when boarding/debarking the bus.
Poor coordination with other transit agencies.
Different fare structure and rules between transit agencies, for example different age requirements for seniors.
Vandalism on the bus.
Lack of Park and Ride and Kiss and Ride lots and stops.
Roberto stated a lot of other problems using bus that I don’t need to repeat here.
=========
The benefit in using the bus is that I would not have to drive. Another benefit would be that if the bus could take you where you are going without a transfer, or just one transfer with a minimum wait for the next bus.
Bob
Marty
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 1:45 AM
The #1 problem is (lack of) dependability. The only time I really use the bus is to catch the Red Line to go into downtown/Union Station. Whenever I'm in a big hurry, I get really nervous that the bus won't get me there in time. Every time, I'll plan waaay ahead and it'll still be a stressful experience - either waiting at the bus stop forever, getting stuck in traffic, or having to wait for clueless people to get on that are fumbling with nickels and dimes.
The bottom line is that there is no way of gauging when you're gonna arrive somewhere and when you need to leave. In John's hokey-pokey world this might not matter, but it does to me.
One thing I would NEVER do is take a bus to the airport - you could walk out the door the day before your flight and still be a little weary about if you're gonna make your flight or not. The only time the bus makes sense is for short trips that don't require transfers on lines that have frequent service, such as Westwood Blvd with its 5 BBBuses that go to UCLA.
PForce
User ID: 0596854 Mar 24th 1:47 AM
All of the above.
Plus: the ease with which routes and time schedules can be changed, lines that suddenly disappear without warning, unpredictablility, waiting late at night for a bus and suffering the leers of passing motorists, buses that come only every half hour or more, angry bus drivers, waiting in the rain for a bus and getting splashed by inconsiderate car dirvers, the bus that inexplicably never shows up when you are waiting in the rain on a winter evening (or in the morning when you overslept and are late for work), or trying to get to an important appointment on time (maybe for a job interview?), taking someone out on a date on a bus (always a disaster and usually the end of a promising new relationship), etc., etc. The story of my life.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 24th 4:07 AM
Yeah, Bob brought up a good one ... buses that pass by EARLY. I can't tell you how many times (when I was trying to use the buses regularly), I would be showing up early to make sure not to miss my bus, only to see it pass by while I was still 1/2 a block away. I would run to the bus stop, and get there just in time to breathe in the big cloud of diesel fumes as the bus pulled away.
Since the next one wasn't until a 1/2-hour later, I would have to run to an intersection about 2 blocks away to catch another bus going to a similar area at around the same time, but since that one sometimes came early too, I would also see it pass by when I was about a 1/2 a block away. Sometimes that driver would wait for me to run up. But then that one would always get stuck in traffic, so I would miss my transfer ... and then I would have to sit there for 45 minutes or so waiting for the next one ...
Now I just drive everywhere, and take Metro Rail only when I'm close enough to Norwalk to park there and ride. When the Gold Line opens, I'll be able to take it almost daily.
Jerard
User ID: 1655274 Mar 24th 8:15 AM
I am curious where do you all live?
Andrew S
User ID: 0269124 Mar 24th 10:04 AM
All of the above, plus in general having to wait for a bus on the hot, dirty, tiny, unsheltered little piece of sidewalk that remains after all other space has been dedicated to the free flow of vehicles.
After all, I am just an impediment to that flow of vehicles.
Jerard - Manhatan Beach
PForce
User ID: 0596854 Mar 24th 11:11 AM
I live in Venice, where the bus service is fairly decent. We have the Santa Monica Blue bus, which is a relatively good system, as bus systems go, and the MTA, which provides frequent, but uncomfortable and slow service from Santa Monica and Venice to downtown. I use all these buses a lot, not for convenience and speed, but out of sheer determination not to use my car for every dumb trip I make. I also walk a lot, often the 2-to-3 miles to Santa Monica from my house--still better than the bus anytime, unless it's raining.
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 11:22 AM
I like riding buses because they are usually relatively comfortable and spacious, smooth-riding, generally on-time and they get me where I want to go within a reasonable period of time. Also, I can enjoy the scenery and I don't have to experience the stress, fear, and guilt involved in driving a car.
Robert
User ID: 8290473 Mar 24th 1:01 PM
I live in Rolling Hills Estates. We just moved our office from Rosemead to Diamond Bar. I can take the Bus, but a 55 minute drive takes 3 hours plus using public transit. Plus, since I work late almost each night, I cannot get home because the 444 bus does not have night service. The last bus leaves before 7 pm from Union Station, and our office closes at 7 pm.
I know there is low ridership on the 444 and there is the LADOT 448 Commuter Express bus that looks just like the MTA busses, but the schedule is not shown on the MTA web site!
Yes John, I know I can move. But there are many reasons that prevents one from moving. I know that many residents that live on “The Hill” still would not use public transit. This could be its own thread: “Why doesn’t the UPPER CLASS use Public Transit.”
Bob
Marty
User ID: 0798784 Mar 24th 1:30 PM
Part of the problem w/ PV is that you're so secluded from everything and the bus ride up/down the hill takes forever, compared to a car. My parents live in RPV, and I used to take the 444 down to Del Amo when I was a kid. PV is just not designed for public transit, as you have to walk a pretty good distance up/downhill to even get to a major street such as Hawthorne. The only people that really use the bus in PV are maids and some high school students. The only hope would be to have a huge park and ride lot at Hawthorne and PCH for PV residents to drive down to and then connect w/ light rail.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 24th 3:38 PM
I live in Duarte right now. The FT 187 and 189 buses are notorious for passing by up to 15 minutes EARLY. And even when I would get there 15 minutes early, then the bus would pass by 17 or 18 minutes early, so I would still miss it. One week I missed it all 5 days in a row.
Then I would have to run a couple of blocks away to try to catch the MTA 177 to Pasadena, but even when I got it, I would still miss my 401 transfer in Pasadena ... the 177 gets stuck in some major gridlock trying to make a left turn in Pasadena at an intersection with no left-turn arrow ... the signal changes 3 or 4 times before the bus finally gets across. And then on the rare days I would get to my transfer point on time, the 401 would be 20 or 30 minutes late because it gets stuck in traffic on the 110.
I just got a message today from somebody at Foothill Transit that wants to talk to me about coordinating the 187 buses to the Gold Line when it opens. YES! Hopefully they can run a couple of later connecting buses since the Gold Line will run after midnight (the 187 stops a little bit after 11PM).
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 4:36 PM
Yes John, I know I can move. But there are many reasons that prevents
one from moving. I know that many residents that live on 'The Hill'
still would not use public transit. This could be its own thread: 'Why
doesn¹t the UPPER CLASS use Public Transit.'
Bob
one from moving. I know that many residents that live on 'The Hill'
still would not use public transit. This could be its own thread: 'Why
doesn¹t the UPPER CLASS use Public Transit.'
Bob
Bob, yes, I think you are so right that many of those who live on "The Hill" (I suspect it would be the overwhelming majority) would never regularly use transit. And of course (it seems to me) this is exactly the reason why there is so very little transit there. My perception is that wherever transit ridership is very high, the service is usually very good, whereas where ridership is very low, it isn't. And this situation seems very logical to me, as I have indicated before.
I have a cousin who lives in Rancho Palos Verdes, and back when she and I used to meet for lunch once in awhile at the Marie Calendar's in that mall near Silver Spur & Hawthorne, I would take the #444 up "The Hill." I can recall waiting at least 45 minutes for it at the corner of PCH & Hawthorne, and I recall my anger about that. But I of course realized full well WHY the #444 ran up "The Hill" so infrequently, and thus it was somewhat comforting to know that the MTA was in no way to blame for the situation. And anyway, I only went up there about two or three times a year, and my partner and I lived in the South Bay then, so it wasn't so bad. Fortunately, the couple or so times a year that my cousin and I get together now, we meet in one of the shopping centers at Crenshaw & PCH, so I don't have to wait for the #444 at all! Did that mall near Silver Spur & PCH go completely out of business?
You mentioned the #448. When my partner and I lived in Torrance, I rode it back from Downtown occasionally, getting off before it turned to go south up "The Hill." And during a period when I did some extra work once or twice a week up on "The Hill," I remember taking either the #225 or the #226 bus up there; but I would always get a ride home afterwards, which, as I recall, was because the bus had stopped running by the time of night when the work sessions concluded.
Anyway, Bob, I am quite familiar with the poor transit situation on "The Hill." Indeed, I was frequently displeased by the transit situation in the South Bay in general; however, I always realized deep down that the MTA was not to blame for the frequently long waits for some of the buses, etc. I mean, I did realize that I was living in the 'burbs, so how could I expect the situation to be any different? For as long as my partner and I chose to continue living there, I knew that I had to endure the situation. It was our choice to live in the 'burbs; the MTA didn't force us to live there.
Believe me, I rejoice every day that we finally decided to move to the City of Los Angeles!
erict
User ID: 0784604 Mar 24th 4:36 PM
I try waiting for a certain bus in El Segundo - #124 I think, and some days it comes on time- while others it can be an hour behind schedule. The stop before is where the drivers take their "change counting" break and lunch break and they really don't care much about being on time. Most work part time- and are sent to different buses on different days. I have only had a train be an hour late once (green line) when they had an elictrical problem.
Jason S.
User ID: 8499503 Mar 24th 4:37 PM
Over Crowding.
Last time I rode the bus it was >packed<
Robert
User ID: 2037954 Mar 24th 9:02 PM
John,
I know that public transportation will not improve on “The Hill” for many years, if not decades. This is your SUV paradise. I would say that many residents that live here are SNOBS. It is against their status to ride any local public transit system; they would have to ride with the lower class low life common person that uses public transit.
Those of us who would like to use public transportation finds out that it is not practical, and we still must use our SUV. I was fortunate that for many years I was able to carpool to work and not have to drive alone.
We know for public transportation to be practical today, the area it serves must be high density, which is not the case for most of the South Bay Region, and even more so on “The Hill.”
How do we solve this problem? First, we require the majority of residents to insist on good public transportation, and then we can see how the problem could be solved. But there are so many other projects that should be solved first, I will just sit here and bad mouth the bad service we have here on “The Hill.”
Bob
Jerard
User ID: 0944964 Mar 24th 9:38 PM
I live off Vermont and 42nd Street, where did Manhattan Beach Come from?
Robert
User ID: 9447203 Mar 24th 10:44 PM
Jerard
Andrew was telling you he lived in Manhattan Beach, not you. That was the reason for the dash between your name and Andrews city.
Bob
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 24th 11:09 PM
Bob, I do not for one second believe that ANYONE is forced to own or drive an SUV. Nor is anyone forced to buy a house or mansion on "The Hill."
Thank you, though, Bob, for providing what I consider to be an extremely honest as well as totally accurate description of many of those who choose to reside on "The Hill."
It indeed is no wonder that transit is and will continue to be so very limited on "The Hill."
Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Mar 26th 4:07 AM
This is your SUV paradise. I would say that many residents that live here are SNOBS. It is against their status to ride any local public transit system;
It's not just snobs that refuses to ride busses etc. I know plenty of Gen Xr's and Yr's that are NOT fans of public transit. That may be because of the luxury car and SUV culture that many in that age brackett 'miracuously' are a part of (I wish I was!) But many I've talked to, including my friend that I rode with from San Diego to Warner Center by rail and bus last Thanksgiving, seem to share the attitude of, "Why take a bus/trolley/train when I can drive?"
Last Christmas, I had dinner with some friends who's post college grad son from Detroit was visiting. I was telling them all about the F4E and other websites like this. I remember his surprise when I told him of LA's Red Line subway and how nice the stations are. He then told us about how he'd only been on a train once, in Chicago, and how it was interesting but it wasn't his cup of tea. Now here's the interesting part, he went on to say that he'd rather drive and everyone he knows would rather drive than take a train. Of course by that time I was shocked that someone would feel that way, but I soon found out that there are many young people who'd rather drive their SUV's with the TV screens and expensive sound systems and chrome wheels etc.
But I'm sure they'd feel different once LA's rail system is expanded to serve more people's needs and actually go where people want to go...if even for special events ie: Staple Center events, Dodger games etc.
PForce: As far as losing out on special dates because you had to take the bbbus, the one thing I liked about NYC and even San Francisco when I was younger was the fact that public transit was such an intergral part of 'city living' that it was perfectly acceptable to take the subway, BART, Muni streetcars etc on a date or to hang out with friends. But I'm sure that now, even those cities have SUV-itis with it's burgeoning affluent young people.
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Mar 26th 4:24 AM
That may be because of the luxury car and SUV culture that many in that age brackett 'miracuously' are a part of
Where do these people live? Malibu? Beverly Hills? Del Mar?
I don't know alot of 20 and 30-year olds that own luxury cars. I know those people exist, but it's hardly fair to call them typical ... they are hardly representative of the income bracket that most young people in L.A. County fall into. Therefore, I wouldn't call their values "typical" of 20 or 30-year olds because their financial situation is so different from the norm.
I would bet the house that the vast majority of luxury car owners are 40+ years of age.
Andrew S
User ID: 8492403 Mar 26th 10:35 AM
I live off Vermont and 42nd Street, where did Manhattan Beach Come from?
It was short for Jerard, I live in Manhattan Beach! (in reponse to your request)
mike wills
User ID: 1181464 Mar 26th 12:26 PM
Most people have listed the disadvantages of taking the bus, so I'll start with the advantages for me.
1) Busses mean that I don't have to own a car. I can't begin to tell you how big an advantage that is for me.
2) In L.A., the bus system is comprehensive in that if I want to go somewhere, public transit will get me there... eventually
3) Bikes on busses. I really like this relatively recent innovation, although I have only used it in an emegency situation. Still, I'm glad that it is there.
4) I can read on the bus; something that few other modes of transportation allow me to do, and that includes my preferred mode of cycling. (I currently live in Santa Barbara, and UCSB, where I go to school is less than a mile away)
5) I don't feel stranded if I arrive at a railway station, and no one is there to pick me up. I know some people who seem to think that the public transit experience should end after one gets off the train, thus causing inconvenience for other people.
6) I've been riding L.A. busses most of my life so they are very familiar.
7) They're cheap. A monthly pass is quite reasonably priced, especially when compared with petrol, parking and auto insurance.
Disadvantages
Most of my complaints have already been made:
delays, unreliability, crowding, incredibly slow travel times
I guess about the only reason that I would ever want to own a car is for grocery shopping. Any other reasons that come up for driving somewhere come up infrequently enough to justify renting a car.
However, I lie a little bit. My wife does own a car, which I cannot drive since I never learned how to drive a manual. Since she is a housewife, and I am a fulltime graduate student, she does most of the grocery shopping, and all of the driving. I am rarely a passenger since I bike most places here.
I therefore should say that I do not intend to own a car for myself anytime soon.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 26th 3:02 PM
But why should we have buses? Should we establish new bus routes to meet unmet needs?
I am pushing for letters to support the establishment of an All Day, Seven Day per week bus service between the San Fernando Valley, the Santa Clarita Valley and the Antelope Valley.
Try taking a job in Santa Clarita any time on Sunday and most of the day Saturday (get there before 9 a.m. or leave after 4 p.m.), if you live in the other two Valley's and don't drive.
When I asked the Valley Industry and Commerce Association (VICA) to write me a letter of support for this proposed bus service, I got the following reply:
"Bart, VICA has a specific process to take positions before writing letters of support. I'm sorry it will cause us to miss the March 31 deadline however we invite you to make your case, if you still want to, at the VICA Transportation Committee meeting in May.
Please contact me to agenda this item. I think people will want numbers of riders, jobs, impact on workers, etc. so please prepare accordingly.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Bonny"
Now, I am going to make a presentation to them as they have requested.
Do any of you have the time or ability to help me put together a short report on numbers of riders, jobs, impact on workers?
Please post here or send via e-mail to:
transitcoalition@earthlink.net
Bart!
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John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 26th 5:09 PM
Bart, it sounds as though the majority of people who live and/or work out there don't see a need for the bus service you describe. Is it a rural/small town sort of area? Most rural/small town areas don't have much bus service, as far as I know.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 26th 7:02 PM
Actually, John, I live part time in Watsonville.
A community of 42,000. Sylmar has 71,000. Who has more bus service?
Watsonville.
Þ--Þ--Þ
John
User ID: 9510053 Mar 26th 8:50 PM
Hmm. I guess Watsonville also has more pride.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Mar 27th 12:16 AM
Here is what I wrote VICA, the Valley Industry and Commerce Association:
Hi Bonny:
I would be delighted to make a presentation to your committee in May 2003. What is the date and time? How much time would I have to present? Number of reports to prepare?
Also, you can still, under your personal letter-head, write to request bus service between the San Fernando, Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley.
The need to help folks get to jobs is immense. For example, just in the 15 square miles of Sylmar, Population: 70M, we have over $1 Billion in payroll. Providing mobility and access to jobs to those who can no longer receive welfare is a major social goal. And we have over 20 miles of arterials within the northeast Valley without Transit Bus Service.
On Monday, June 23, the MTA starts a new 5 day per week bus service that connects the Sylmar Metrolink station with Cascades Business Park and the Ventura Blvd. business district. The park
has over 2,000 jobs and still will have no access by transit from the North County areas.
Large employers such as Six Flags Magic Mountain like to recruit from the huge employment pool in the northeast San Fernando Valley. Six Flags has continuing problems filling staff positions as there is no public transit on Sundays.
I have talked with employees who have had to spend the night in the bathroom at Magic Mountain, as they missed their ride home on Saturday or their junker car broke down in the parking lot. There are a lot of other Santa Clarita and San Fernando Valley employers that would benefit from All Day, Every Day transit connecting Valley-to-Valley.
The Los Angeles Times did a groundbreaking story on the unmet transportation needs from Valley-to-Valley.
So, I would be most pleased if you could come forth with your personal support, as VICA will meet after the deadline.
Sincerely yours,
Bart Reed
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