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Post by marslight on May 15, 2009 22:43:04 GMT -8
New member here, with questions. Please don't laugh, okay?
The new Breda cars...are they to be used only on the eastside extension, with the Siemens cars used on the Pasadena line? If so, does this mean no through trains from Pasadena to Atlantic Boulevard? Then passengers must change trains at Union Station, which seems kind of counter-productive for "seamless" rail travel.
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Post by losangeles2319 on May 15, 2009 23:08:46 GMT -8
from what i've read and seen, both types of trains will be used on both parts of the Gold Line.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 16, 2009 10:11:31 GMT -8
New member here, with questions. Please don't laugh, okay? The new Breda cars...are they to be used only on the eastside extension, with the Siemens cars used on the Pasadena line? If so, does this mean no through trains from Pasadena to Atlantic Boulevard? Then passengers must change trains at Union Station, which seems kind of counter-productive for "seamless" rail travel. It's funny how people continuously think that the Eastside extension is a brand new line. It's an EXTENSION. It would be very dumb for LA to load/unload the same track. I'm not laughing at you mars...it's just very poor promotion on MTA's part. The Gold Line will be the first through rail line for Union Station. |
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Post by Justin Walker on May 16, 2009 10:28:52 GMT -8
The Gold Line will be the first through rail line for Union Station. ... depending on how you count the Pacific Surfliner. ;D |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 16, 2009 11:38:36 GMT -8
The Gold Line will be the first through rail line for Union Station. ... depending on how you count the Pacific Surfliner. ;D Unless I'm missing a joke...no matter how you count it, there are no run-through tracks for the Surfliner. The trains leave on the same track they came in on. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 16, 2009 12:08:25 GMT -8
New member here, with questions. Please don't laugh, okay? The new Breda cars...are they to be used only on the eastside extension, with the Siemens cars used on the Pasadena line? If so, does this mean no through trains from Pasadena to Atlantic Boulevard? Then passengers must change trains at Union Station, which seems kind of counter-productive for "seamless" rail travel. Welcome new Carson member.  As others have mentioned the trains will run through and no transfer is required. As far as where the trains will run, most of them will be for the gold line. The old P2000's (the ones they run now) will move to Expo when that opens. But the fact that the cars suck has probably thrown a monkey wrench into any plans beyond that. This months Metro meetings notes show that they are not exercising the 50-car option and are going out for bid again. |
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Post by spokker on May 16, 2009 21:09:13 GMT -8
... depending on how you count the Pacific Surfliner. ;D Unless I'm missing a joke...no matter how you count it, there are no run-through tracks for the Surfliner. The trains leave on the same track they came in on. He means that it's the only continuous service where you don't have to get off the train. In other words, Union Station is no longer a terminus for the Gold Line, like it isn't for some Surfliner trains. |
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Post by James Fujita on May 16, 2009 21:16:31 GMT -8
... depending on how you count the Pacific Surfliner. ;D Unless I'm missing a joke...no matter how you count it, there are no run-through tracks for the Surfliner. The trains leave on the same track they came in on. All jokes aside, one of the few flaws about Union Station is that it is a terminal station (as in "all trains terminate at Union Station" ), as opposed to a run-through station (which is why one of the former names for the station is "Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal"). It would be much better for all involved if southbound Surfliner and Metrolink trains could enter from the north and exit from the south. as others have pointed out, the Gold Line extension will be the first train to do this. hopefully it won't be the last. if HSR is to use Union Station, a bridge should really be built across the freeway. |
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Post by roadtrainer on May 19, 2009 18:49:26 GMT -8
Lets see I get the picture that metro ... don't like the Siemens lrv  don't like the Breda's lrv don't like the Blue line Japanese lrv Is there any pleasing Metro?  San Diego seems to be a Siemens fan big time, why doesn't Metro? |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 19, 2009 19:18:37 GMT -8
I don't think that they like Breda, but why would you think that they don't like the other two? Just because they went out for bid as they are required to do? Also, in response to a question that metrocenter asked a few years ago on the old TTC board, evidently they DO make LRV's that don't have operators cabs at each end. Here's a picture of the new Avanto LRV's that Portland is getting. Notice no operators cab on the B end. It would be nice to have something like that written into the specs for the next 50 car option.  |
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Post by metrocenter on May 20, 2009 6:59:12 GMT -8
^ Wow, your memory is better than mine!
Thinking about it now, I'm not sure this would provide any advantage other than allowing more space for passengers.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 20, 2009 7:26:25 GMT -8
Yeah, more space for passengers is the main benefit, but I would expect that they would also be cheaper.
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Post by roadtrainer on May 20, 2009 9:46:57 GMT -8
I don't think that they like Breda, but why would you think that they don't like the other two? I got that from gleaming over the past stories that you guys wrote over the past year or so. and i would like to know if Metro is going to get 50 more Siemens or the 100 Breda's, what is up with that? Is it true or just story on this web-site.  Any way thanks for your endeavors in reporting the facts! |
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Post by JerardWright on May 20, 2009 13:23:57 GMT -8
Yeah, more space for passengers is the main benefit, but I would expect that they would also be cheaper. That's a possibility. In Portland their maximum train length is 2 cars so every square inch of space will count. Our vehicles are approaching that limit in some years so it maybe a good short-term gap for capacity, given those busy LRT lines run no shorter than 2 car LRV's and those single ended vehicles can be trained together back-to-back to form a "Married pair" of sorts. Add that with a revised interior layout could increase capacity by 25% without having to build a grade separation. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 20, 2009 16:22:30 GMT -8
roadtrainer, one of the meeting notes from this month indicates that they'd like to accept the original 50-car Breda order (IIRC it actually said 45 or some other lessor number) and go out for bid for the next 50-car order. We'll see if the board approves that, but every indication is that they don't want anymore Breda LRV's than necessary. Remember they tried to make that move a couple of months ago when Snoble was still there, but when Breda made that bogus promise to build a factory here, AV interceded and got the board to delay action for a few weeks.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 21, 2009 19:01:01 GMT -8
I really hope that this doesn't happen. Jobs or not, these cars are not performing up to standard. L.A. officials weigh exclusive deal with Italian rail firmA redevelopment agency vote today could set the stage for AnsaldoBreda to build a manufacturing plant in downtown L.A.'s future green corridor. By Maeve Reston May 21, 2009 Los Angeles redevelopment officials are drawing closer to an agreement with an Italian rail car company that hopes to build a manufacturing plant on a prized city site east of downtown. The company, AnsaldoBreda, is angling for a $300-million contract with the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority to build 100 light-rail cars, some of which would be used for the expansion of Metro's Gold and Expo lines. The company proposed the Los Angeles-based plant and a corporate headquarters earlier this year, when it learned that MTA staff had criticized the firm's performance on a previous 50-car contract. By creating up to 650 full-time jobs in Los Angeles, AnsaldoBreda hopes to improve its odds of securing the new contract. The city's Community Redevelopment Agency board, whose members are appointed by Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, is slated to vote today to authorize an exclusive agreement that would set the stage for AnsaldoBreda to build on a parcel near 15th Street and Santa Fe Avenue in the city's industrial core. The mayor hopes the city-owned site could serve as southern anchor for a green corridor that would attract clean technology companies to Los Angeles. As the city struggles with 12% unemployment, approval from the redevelopment board could increase pressure on members of the MTA board to agree to the 100-car deal with AnsaldoBreda as early as next week's meeting. In March, the MTA's former chief executive, Roger Snoble, advised the board to seek bids from other rail companies for the 100 cars, because AnsaldoBreda's cars had arrived late and 5,000 to 6,000 pounds overweight, he said. With the backing of the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor, Villaraigosa, the MTA board chairman and a board ally successfully brokered a two-month reprieve to give the MTA's incoming chief executive time to review the rail company's performance. AnsaldoBreda officials have said MTA's problems with the initial 50 cars stem from changes requested by the agency. Officials at the Community Redevelopment Agency have stressed that an agreement with AnsaldoBreda hinges entirely on the MTA's decision. The exclusive agreement under discussion sets out a 50-year lease with AnsaldoBreda for 14 acres of the 20-acre site -- allowing the city to pursue additional tenants. Redevelopment officials are also seeking a series of guarantees from AnsaldoBreda to ensure that the company follows through with its promise to build an environmentally friendly plant on the site, a formerly contaminated parcel that the city purchased from the state in 2008 for $14 million. AnsaldoBreda, which would be eligible for sizable state and federal tax breaks in that industrial zone, would agree to pay $906,000 in rent annually to the city, and would make a nonrefundable rent payment of $15.1 million up front, allowing officials to pay off the loan they got to purchase the property. City officials said the company could face $35 million in penalties if it did not complete the project. maeve.reston@latimes.com |
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Post by Gokhan on May 22, 2009 7:36:04 GMT -8
Italian rail company moves ahead in L.A.
7:29 AM | May 22, 2009The Community Redevelopment Agency board unanimously agreed Thursday to begin negotiating exclusively with an Italian rail company that has drawn up plans to build a rail car factory on a city-owned parcel east of downtown. The CRA board's approval was just a first step for the rail company, AnsaldoBreda, which is lobbying the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority for a $300-million deal to build 100 additional light-rail cars for several Metro lines, including the Gold Line and Expo Line extensions. The company is already under contract to build 50 cars for the agency, but the MTA staff had recommended opening the bidding for the new contract to other rail companies because the AnsaldoBreda cars were late and overweight, MTA officials said. The company has blamed the problems on last-minute MTA requests. The tentative agreement approved by the CRA board Thursday set the terms for the rail company to lease a prized parcel of city land -- a deal that would be executed only if the MTA board agrees, as early as next Thursday, to let AnsaldoBreda build the 100 cars. AnsaldoBreda officials said they would build an energy-efficient "green" building on 14 acres of city land near the intersection of 15th Street and Washington Boulevard in the city's old industrial core. The company would pay $906,000 in rent annually -- with reappraisals at various points over the 50-year lease -- and make a rent payment of $15 million upfront to help the CRA pay off its loan on the property. -- Maeve Reston
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Post by darrell on May 27, 2009 11:18:05 GMT -8
Here is my first experiment with a new high-definition video camera and the Pasadena Gold Line yesterday, of the Chinatown aerial structure, uploaded to YouTube in high-definition. Click on the HD button for high quality. Better is to click the video frame or go to this YouTube link where you can go to full-screen view. |
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Post by darrell on May 27, 2009 11:28:52 GMT -8
The first one was converted to 720 x 480 MPEG-4 format, then uploaded. Much better (although four times as large to upload) is this one on Marmion Way in Highland Park, uploaded in native Canon .mts format.
Click in the YouTube video frame (twice), then the HD button, finally the full-screen button. Looks nice! Ok, this is how I'll upload everything.
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Post by darrell on May 27, 2009 12:20:23 GMT -8
Here's the Chinatown aerial again in HD. As before, click in the YouTube video frame (twice), then the HD button, finally the full-screen button.
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Post by darrell on May 27, 2009 13:08:24 GMT -8
And here's the the Gold Line crossing Indiana Avenue in South Pasadena in HD. Again, click in the YouTube video frame (twice), then the HD button, finally the full-screen button.
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2009 14:30:35 GMT -8
Great HD videos Darrell! It's as if I was there. What's the camera model number? The Breda cars look nicer than the Siemens cars. Their specs say that they are designed for 65 MPH operation and 75 MPH maximum speed. So many people are against them but they might actually be better than the other LRVs used in LA. They don't seem to be that heavy, 80,000 lb instead of 75,000 lb not that much difference. What do they mean they are not compatible with other LRVs? Do they link Siemens LRVs with the Nippon Sharyo LRVs? Note that the gates down time was less than 30 s, less than a red cycle. The woman and dog also managed not to get hit by the train. Breda also appeared quiter than the Siemens. |
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Post by darrell on May 27, 2009 15:37:52 GMT -8
It's the new Canon HF200, that was on sale at Samy's Camera for $600. I'm still learning how to use it, and really like it so far.
I believe these Breda cars can operate on the other lines but can't be coupled into a pair with one of L.A.'s other cars. They do look really nice in this setting!
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 27, 2009 17:50:05 GMT -8
5,000 pounds heavier (and I think even that is in dispute) is significant when you consider that it will cost a little more to move the cars each time they start and that brakes will have to be changed out more frequently. But I think that the biggest issue is that they are close to maxing out the system design. They can barely run 3-car trains as it is, now those 3-car trains will be 15,000 pounds (at least) heavier. In other news, Leahy has officially recommended that Metro NOT exercise the two 50 car options and go out for bid. Chief urges MTA to decline Italian firm's $300 million contract options9:55 AM | May 27, 2009 In a blow to an Italian rail-car manufacturer that had tantalized Los Angeles city officials with a proposal to build a plant in downtown Los Angeles, the new MTA chief is recommending the agency dispense with the company’s contract options for 100 additional cars and seek competitive bids for the $300-million job. The 13-member board may still approve AnsaldoBreda contract options at its meeting Thursday, but the recommendation sets up a potential confrontation between incoming Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chief Executive Officer Arthur T. Leahy and the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor. The federation became one of the strongest backers of AnsaldoBreda after the rail company pledged to build a manufacturing plant and hire union laborers — a proposal intended to give the company leverage in persuading the MTA board to approve the potential 100-car contract. Dozens of union workers attended the March MTA board meeting urging members to approve AnsaldoBreda’s contract options, despite concerns of MTA staff -- and the former CEO — about problems with the 50 cars the Italian company is building under its current contract. Those cars, which cost the agency $2.9 million each, failed to meet a number of requirements specified in the MTA contract: They are incompatible with other passenger cars in the MTA fleet, 5,000 to 6,000 pounds heavier than ordered and the 50th car would arrive three years late, according to MTA officials. AnsaldoBreda officials have blamed the delays on changes ordered by MTA and dispute the agency’s weight calculations. At the last meeting, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who is chairman of the MTA board, and one of his MTA appointees, Richard Katz, brokered a two-month delay on the decision, giving the new CEO and board members more time to vet complaints about AnsaldoBreda's performance. Over the course of the two-month extension, MTA staff was to ensure that AnsaldoBreda met its contractual obligations on weight, compatibility and delivery schedule under the current contract. In a brief memo to board members, Leahy said that although AnsaldoBreda had made a “concerted effort” to respond to concerns, their actions “fall short of meeting the requirements.” After reviewing the company’s plans and an MTA staff study of them, Leahy added he could “find little reason for recommending exercise of the options.” The board will debate at its Thursday meeting whether to exercise AnsaldoBreda’s options. -- Maeve Reston |
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2009 21:02:12 GMT -8
It's the new Canon HF200, that was on sale at Samy's Camera for $600. I'm still learning how to use it, and really like it so far. I believe these Breda cars can operate on the other lines but can't be coupled into a pair with one of L.A.'s other cars. They do look really nice in this setting! MPEG-4/AVCHD has become the standard for HD video. It achieves great compression. On top of that, Canon has one of the best optics, and flash memory is the best storage option. We use camcorders in the lab for frame-by-frame real-time-analysis of motion. It turns out that for that purpose the only format that works is MiniDV, which, unlike all other formats, doesn't compress different frames together but only does compression within the frame. But for general video, AVCHD is the best since it offers great compression. Breda cars certainly look better than all other makes. |
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2009 21:11:53 GMT -8
5,000 pounds heavier (and I think even that is in dispute) is significant when you consider that it will cost a little more to move the cars each time they start and that brakes will have to be changed out more frequently. But I think that the biggest issue is that they are close to maxing out the system design. They can barely run 3-car trains as it is, now those 3-car trains will be 15,000 pounds (at least) heavier. In other news, Leahy has officially recommended that Metro NOT exercise the two 50 car options and go out for bid. What I'm worried is that they will end up with something worse than the Breda at the end. Saying 5000 lb heavier doesn't mean much to me. You need to compare the efficiency of the trains, that is MPkWh (miles per kWh). How much drop 5000 lb causes in MPkWh efficiency? These trains are already pretty heavy to begin with. Also, some motors are more efficient than others. If the weight is so important, then should they go ahead and make these trains out of thinner steel? Wouldn't this be unsafe? Could it be because Breda trains are heavier because they have a stronger construction, bigger motors, and more features? So, I need much more evidence before someone can convince me on this issue. Saying Breda is bad doesn't mean much. I've also heard that the other major manufacturer Siemens doesn't deal with MTA anymore after the way they were treated by MTA in the past. So, MTA might eventually end up with the lousy monorail company Bombardier, whose cars everyone will hate. Besides, no other company has offered building a factory in LA, which will create a lot of jobs, make the supply of spare parts easier, and encourage building more light-rail in Southern California. |
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Post by spokker on May 27, 2009 21:13:59 GMT -8
So, I need much more evidence before someone can convince me on this issue. Saying Breda is bad doesn't mean much. The number of transit agencies that are coming out and saying Breda is junk means a lot. I can't even believe that they could be considering Breda after all this awful word of mouth. |
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Post by Gokhan on May 28, 2009 6:39:10 GMT -8
And here's the the Gold Line crossing Indiana Avenue in South Pasadena in HD. I've noticed in the video that the Breda train is fairly noisy, not that different from heavy rail like Metrolink. Have you noticed it too, Darrell, or is that just the HD sound of the new camera? How does the noise compare to other light-rail like Siemens and Sharyo and heavyy rail like Metrolink? The HVAC noise (probably due to high-speed ventilation fans creating turbulence) inside the train mentioned by other posters also sounds pretty annoying. Let us know the outcome if anyone goes to the board meeting today. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 28, 2009 11:16:53 GMT -8
Have you not ridden the trains to know what they sound like? I'd say that the Breda's are at least as quite as the other LRV's when they are moving. Maybe even a little more quite. They also have the quieter "buzzer" sounding horns instead of the more blaring style horns on the blue line trains (which partially defeats the purpose of sounding the horn).
I'm not sure if it's HVAC or just A/C noise. Either way it could be just the fan like you say, but it also sounds like the compressor itself is just louder. I tried to gauge it once when I rode a trains from the gold to the red to the blue. On a decibel scale it's probably not that much louder than the other lrv's, but in an enclosed space the difference is enough to notice. Some might not find it distracting, but I do. Alaso, while it's louder than the other lrv's it sounds very similar to the A/C noise on the Breda subway cars. However, the subway cars being in a tunnel are already ouder than the LRV's so I think that you just don't notice it as much. At least I never did until I intentionally checked.
It'll be interesting to hear what the noise level inside the lrv's are inside the regional connector tunnel. The blue line noise level is pretty high in the current short segment. Loud enough that lots of people stop talking to each other because they'd have to raise their voice. Hopefully the entire underground segment won't be like that, although I don't know why it wouldn't be.
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Post by Gokhan on May 28, 2009 12:02:12 GMT -8
^^
I've never seen or ridden a Breda train yet. My main question was for the noise outside the trains, not inside the train, which will effect the people who live around the line. Of course, for a scientific comparison, a decibel meter is needed and the test must be conducted at the same distance and similar or same surroundings.
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