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Post by bobdavis on Oct 17, 2008 11:02:43 GMT -8
According to an article in the LA Times, and discussion on Trainorders.com, the Disney theme park division is planning a major overhaul of Disney California Adventure, the park that some consider a "stepchild" of the original Magic Kingdom. The general "theme" of the update will actually be a "backdate", emphasizing the "Roaring Twenties" as opposed to the more contemporary design of the present park. The idea is to evoke the spirit of what Southern California was like when Walt Disney first arrived here, and the Pacific Electric was a major part of that era. A report from someone who was at the presentation said that the proposed streetcar line would be a loop around the park, and be running cars that would look like a cross between a Birney and a "Hollywood" car. This is all in the "artist's conception" phase, and what visitors will actually see "when the wheel meets the steel" may change over the next few years. I would guess that PCC's would be too new and Huntington Standards would be too old, so 3-window ends and steel bodies are the most likely style. I would also guess that the cars would be 65 to 80% of full scale, and that most likely they will be battery-powered. To use some "contemporary" terms, "Dude, I'm stoked!"
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Post by Jason Saunders on Nov 15, 2008 22:03:44 GMT -8
They should consider having the trolley traverse the sea of cars called a parking lot and pick up passengers and take them to the park.
I know I'm really daydreaming here but how about a downtown Anaheim circulator trolley that connects to D-land?
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Post by James Fujita on Nov 16, 2008 9:24:27 GMT -8
I know I'm really daydreaming here but how about a downtown Anaheim circulator trolley that connects to D-land? Disney has always had something of a weird attitude towards public transit. First of all, being a big, powerful corporation, they like being in control, and transit would, for the most part, be out of their control. Secondly, they see themselves as being in the business of magic, fantasy and illusion, and that makes them perfect suckers for things like monorails, people movers, podcars, etc. Also, Anaheim officials tend to kowtow to the 800-pound mouse living in their backyard ("Poor people? Living near our theme park? Get rid of them!" "Yessir!"). So, a trolley might not be a bad idea, assuming that it is fantastical enough for Disney, and that it shuttles people towards the park rather than away from it  |
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Post by spokker on Nov 16, 2008 17:00:45 GMT -8
Japan's take on the Disneyland Monorail: Chris's Tokyo Disney Resort Fan Site: Disney Resort Line MonorailIt's Disney enough, but it also has the capacity to handle crowds. This is what I would like to see for Resort Transit by the time the HSR station opens in Anaheim. If they want to do transit right in the Resort Area, they should not build street cars, trolleys, or rinky dink monorails. Keep that stuff in the parks. |
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Post by James Fujita on Nov 17, 2008 10:43:25 GMT -8
it's worth pointing out that Tokyo Disneyland is not fully under Disney's control, but there is a partnership between Disney and a Japanese company, as is typical of American business operations over there.
Tokyo is a transit paradise, so that influence clearly reflects in the larger scale of the monorail. Disney adapted to Japanese standards and expectations.
also, private rail transit companies are not uncommon in Japan. for all practical intents and purposes, Disney is just another rail transit operator, regulated by the same laws as other operators.
I would love to see Disney take the initiative here in California; spend their own money and build something that is practical as well as whimsical. however, local conditions are not the same as they are in Japan. speaking pragmatically and practically, it would be much harder for something like the Tokyo Disneyland monorail to be replicated here, even though I think in the long run the results would be advantageous to Disney.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Nov 17, 2008 12:01:26 GMT -8
Disney has a monorail connection to it's adjacent hotel in Anaheim. If Disney were to add a monorail connection to other hotels in the area it would reduce the competitiveness of thier hotel.
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Post by spokker on Nov 17, 2008 13:01:30 GMT -8
I don't expect Disney to build it, finance it, or operate it. The City of Anaheim will.
And I'm aware of the Tokyo Disney arrangement, in fact, I've been there and have ridden their monorail system as I stayed on property.
The point is that if they expect people to go to Disneyland on HSR, they need a good connection to the resort area, and these little shuttle buses they have now aren't going to cut it.
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Post by Justin Walker on Nov 17, 2008 16:35:03 GMT -8
I don't expect Disney to build it, finance it, or operate it. The City of Anaheim will. Why would the City of Anaheim have any role in the operation of an attraction that's entirely within the park? |
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Post by spokker on Nov 17, 2008 20:13:18 GMT -8
I don't expect Disney to build it, finance it, or operate it. The City of Anaheim will. Why would the City of Anaheim have any role in the operation of an attraction that's entirely within the park? Sorry, I didn't make it clear. My fault. I was talking about the planned rail connection, if any, from Anaheim Station to the resort area. |
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Post by James Fujita on Nov 18, 2008 15:46:42 GMT -8
but it's hard to tell how this would all play out, politically-speaking.
consider how hard it has been for the City of Los Angeles to get a decent connection to the Red Line at Universal Studios. consider that Disney opposed Orange County's light rail line.
it would certainly be in Anaheim's interests to get people from the high-speed rail station to the resort area, and it would be in Disney's best interests to get more people to their mouse house.
but there would have to be cooperation between the two organizations. does Anaheim have the money to go it alone? does Disney say no to city trains on their property? does Anaheim ask Disney for help? will Anaheim taxpayers want a rail line that goes from HSR to Disney? etc. etc. etc.
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Post by spokker on Jan 7, 2010 13:02:45 GMT -8
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Jan 7, 2010 20:08:27 GMT -8
Too bad an addition of a rail line in Orange County had to take the form of a recreational ride rather than something functional.
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Post by spokker on Jan 7, 2010 22:48:38 GMT -8
Fat Disney fans will pay the $170 to see it (annual pass) but God forbid any of their tax dollars go into bus or rail transit in Orange County.
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Post by spokker on Jan 11, 2010 18:13:08 GMT -8
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 12, 2010 15:17:28 GMT -8
One thing that you can always count on is for Disney to go all out when it comes to maintaining the proper aura of fantasy. I mean, just look at those construction signs, just absolutely perfect and with the right fonts for the era. much more realistic and believable than, sadly, in my own hometown of San Pedro, where the Red Car signs are much less creative. I hope this means they will strive for accuracy when the actual trolleys are built.
It's annoying to think that Disney will do all this inside the park, but not lift a finger outside their grounds, but they are a corporation, not a government entity, and that is their perogative.
at the very least, this might introduce millions for the first time to the Pacific Electric, or at least give them their first up close look.
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Post by spokker on Jan 12, 2010 16:55:38 GMT -8
To be fair, Disney has a lot more money than the San Pedro people. As far as this project goes, it's part of a larger renovation of California Adventure, dubbed by fans as DCA 2.0. The Red Cars are part of a larger enhancement of two "lands," The Hollywood Backlot and the Entrance Plaza. The Hollywood Backlot is currently themed as modern day Hollywood with a few attractions based on going "backstage" at a Muppet Show or an animation studio, for example. After the redo, the land will be renamed to Hollywoodland, I believe, and be based on the 1930s-40s era. The Entrance Plaza is currently themed as a tacky postcard with a out of scale Golden Gate Bridge and a nice but ultimately out of place mural. After the remake this land will be known as Buena Vista Street and be based on 1920s Los Angeles. Here's what it's supposed to look like: lh5.ggpht.com/ChrisMCarpenter/SPzef_9tenI/AAAAAAAAFWs/o5bpGwp27yE/s576/DSC_0023.JPGwww.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/DSC_5137-back-half-web.jpgThe monorail will still travel over Buena Vista Street, but since the monorail is retro it seems less out of place, as if Ray Bradbury's plan for an LA full of monorails came to fruition. |
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 8, 2010 23:47:10 GMT -8
It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out. One "goof" (so to speak) on the poster is that it shows a PE "Hollywood" car with dual trolley poles (what one would see on a trolleybus/trackless trolley like San Francisco Muni runs). Also, if they're trying for a 1920's look, the car should be a darker shade of red with no decorative striping. They did pick a proper number, 715. That car is long gone, but PE 716 and 717 are preserved at Orange Empire, and 717 has just been repainted in the pre-1938 color scheme. I realize that A) the post-1940 paint job is familiar to folks who have seen "Who Framed Roger Rabbit", and B) most likely, only PE fans would know all the "exterior decoration" history.
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Post by James Fujita on Feb 9, 2010 11:44:09 GMT -8
Are we certain that Disney will be aiming for the '20s, rather than the '30s or '40s? Because I'm fairly certain that if the general public is familiar with the Pacific Electric at all, they are probably familiar with the trolleys they saw in "Roger Rabbit". Certainly, the yellow striping makes for a more interesting looking trolley, if nothing else  The '30s theme has a precedent, at Disney's Hollywood Studios in Orlando, which apparently has a few Red Car references.... |
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