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Post by Gokhan on Sept 7, 2011 15:23:53 GMT -8
Start the Phase 1 prerevenue already! Well, hopefully it will start on or shortly after September 19. That's when we'll start seeing regular trains on the Expo Line.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 7, 2011 21:22:18 GMT -8
Enjoy the Expo board-meeting audio from today (September 1, 2011)! Expo board-meeting audio 2011/09/01The meeting starts with long public comments by Mr. Clint Simmons, whose complaints get more and more outrageous every month. Now, he is asking that the line should be redesigned and rebuilt. Perhaps Mr. Clint Simmons saw the movie "A letter to three wives" in 1949 when he was a young guy and he thinks the Expo Line will be as noisy. See the train passing by the house at 0:50, as well as at 4:30:
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 8, 2011 12:23:41 GMT -8
I didn't run into test trains yesterday or today. I don't know what is going on. They were doing some traffic-signal work at Buckingham. They were also playing with the relays at Farmdale, causing the various signals to operate. We'll see if they will be able to start prerevenue on September 19. We've patiently been waiting for the train operations to start for so many years! So far, it's been only local static and dynamic tests -- no trains freely running along the alignment yet. Once the prerevenue starts, we'll see freely and frequently running trains on the Expo Line.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 8, 2011 12:33:34 GMT -8
I'm just really concerned about Washington/Flower junction. Metro is STILL doing weekend closures on the Blue Line for this junction. Are there unforseen problems? Will this cause in a delay of service operations? Why are they STILL closing the Washington/Flower junction when we're just a few short months from (intended) service?
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 8, 2011 13:01:34 GMT -8
I'm just really concerned about Washington/Flower junction. Metro is STILL doing weekend closures on the Blue Line for this junction. Are there unforseen problems? Will this cause in a delay of service operations? Why are they STILL closing the Washington/Flower junction when we're just a few short months from (intended) service? Unfortunately there are still hardware and software problems and special work that has to be done at the junction. Yes, the junction could quite possibly delay the opening for several months. Prerevenue operation won't include the junction until it's finished. They may have to do a separate five-week prerevenue for the junction if the work at the junction is not completed before the prerevenue for the rest of the line is completed. It's a very critical part of the alignment, where there will be a lot of trains running in six different directions with short headways, with a lot of risk of collision between trains. So, the date of revenue operation = the date of completion of the junction work + 5 weeks prerevenue operation for the junction.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 8, 2011 13:05:08 GMT -8
I'm just really concerned about Washington/Flower junction. Metro is STILL doing weekend closures on the Blue Line for this junction. Are there unforseen problems? Will this cause in a delay of service operations? Why are they STILL closing the Washington/Flower junction when we're just a few short months from (intended) service? Unfortunately there are still hardware and software problems and special work that has to be done at the junction. Yes, the junction could quite possibly delay the opening for several months. Prerevenue operation won't include the junction until it's finished. They may have to do a separate five-week prerevenue for the junction if the work at the junction is not completed before the prerevenue for the rest of the line is completed. It's a very critical part of the alignment, where there will be a lot of trains running in six different directions with short headways, with a lot of risk of collision between trains. So, the revenue operation date = Date junction work is completed + 5 weeks prerevenue operation for the junction. So why are you saying September 19th is the target date for pre-revenue if there appears to be a lot of work at Washington/Flower? 2 pre-revenue services sound like an inefficient use of time. Of course, they can synchronize testing for like a week between 21st/Flower to Jefferson/La Cienega. But to do pre-revenue twice.....hmmmmmm
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 8, 2011 13:18:39 GMT -8
So why are you saying September 19th is the target date for pre-revenue if there appears to be a lot of work at Washington/Flower? 2 pre-revenue services sound like an inefficient use of time. Of course, they can synchronize testing for like a week between 21st/Flower to Jefferson/La Cienega. But to do pre-revenue twice.....hmmmmmm Well, Expo and Metro are saying that they want to start prevenue operation between Washington and La Cienega around September 19. Perhaps, the prerevenue across the junction doesn't have to be five weeks. In that case, the line could still open in November or December if they can finish it by then.
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Post by transituser23 on Sept 8, 2011 14:06:49 GMT -8
With regard to a possible opening by November or December of this year, are we looking at a phased opening starting with La Cienega or would it be all the way to the Culver City Station?
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 8, 2011 14:45:20 GMT -8
With regard to a possible opening by November or December of this year, are we looking at a phased opening starting with La Cienega or would it be all the way to the Culver City Station? They can't open the Culver City Station before January. It looks like it may be completed in late December and then it needs some testing. With usual delays it could be more like February or March for it to open. So, the shorter answer is that the prevenue operation to start soon is for a late-2011 revenue operation to La Cienega only. Even the OCS is not in place on the Culver City elevated section yet.
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Post by davebowman on Sept 8, 2011 15:57:13 GMT -8
Driving to work today Olympic and Cloverfield was bottle-necked due to work crews. Was that Expo Phase 2 connected? Should I use the Centinela on-ramp to the 10-east instead for the next 5 years?
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 8, 2011 16:09:35 GMT -8
Driving to work today Olympic and Cloverfield was bottle-necked due to work crews. Was that Expo Phase 2 connected? Should I use the Centinela on-ramp to the 10-east instead for the next 5 years? LOL Don't drive to work for the next 5 4 years, as there will be a bridge at Centinela as well. After 4 years you can start taking the Expo Line.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 8, 2011 16:11:13 GMT -8
I ride my Giant road bike twice a week! I work at the Y! Center and live in downtown LA. I pass that Bundy/Olympic area within 10 minutes on my bike coming from Y! Center!
I cannot wait for Venice/Robertson!!! I've timed it to be a 40 minute bike ride from Olympic/Cloverfield!!!
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 8, 2011 23:13:34 GMT -8
Driving to work today Olympic and Cloverfield was bottle-necked due to work crews. Was that Expo Phase 2 connected? Should I use the Centinela on-ramp to the 10-east instead for the next 5 years? Another way to check out what work is happening is to follow the following Twitter account: twitter.com/#!/EXPOinSM
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Post by wad on Sept 9, 2011 4:19:56 GMT -8
Unfortunately there are still hardware and software problems and special work that has to be done at the junction. Yes, the junction could quite possibly delay the opening for several months. More than a quarter-century of rail construction and operations, and we're still making noob mistakes?
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 9, 2011 8:15:11 GMT -8
Unfortunately there are still hardware and software problems and special work that has to be done at the junction. Yes, the junction could quite possibly delay the opening for several months. More than a quarter-century of rail construction and operations, and we're still making noob mistakes? The contractor that built the Expo Line had no rail-construction experience whatsoever, I think. That was the problem with the awarding of the Phase 1 contract. They used a 100%-value-based approach and ended up with an incompetent contractor. And the difference from the competent contractor was only $30 million. Later this contractor, who won based on "value," managed to cheat Expo $300 million, and they also turned out to be actually the least-value contractor at the end, in addition to being the least competent. Fortunately Phase 2 has avoided both problems. The contractor that was chosen is not only the most competent, having scored highest in all areas and having tons of light-rail experience, the way the contract was written makes it impossible for them to ask for more money. And the price of the Phase 2 contract is also far below that of the Phase 1 contract -- only around $600 million.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 9, 2011 12:10:40 GMT -8
Unfortunately there are still hardware and software problems and special work that has to be done at the junction. Yes, the junction could quite possibly delay the opening for several months. More than a quarter-century of rail construction and operations, and we're still making noob mistakes? Do you think if the Chatsworth crash didn't happen...we'd be in this predicament today with the Blue Line-Expo Line ATP tie-in?
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Post by simonla on Sept 11, 2011 11:16:34 GMT -8
Viewed the western end of the line on Saturday. OCS poles are indeed up all the way to Culver City; wires stop about halfway between La Cienega and CC. Area around Culver City station still a warzone. La Cienega station looks done and looks good (though wish they would do something with the vacant building on northwest corner of La Cienega and Jefferson). Benches are short enough so people won't sleep on them, thankfully. And the short bike path leading west from La Cienega is quite pleasant. Question--I was told by someone at Expo that the huge parking garage at La Cienega would at least have some retail spaces attached. Looking at the garage now, it's hard to see that being possible (wouldn't it be nice to have a coffee place near the stop so people don't have to cross Jefferson for Starbucks--the light is hella long). La Brea station similar to La Cienega condition, and Farmdale station has platforms but that's about it. Attachments:
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Sept 11, 2011 14:44:56 GMT -8
If it's like other parking structures, the retail space will be on the sidewalk side and some of the last sections to be built. Look for power and water stubs on the ceiling. If you see any, that's your proof.
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Post by darrell on Sept 12, 2011 14:40:59 GMT -8
Per Rick Thorpe this morning, opening end of 2011 or beginning of 2012?
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Post by carter on Sept 12, 2011 18:25:26 GMT -8
Jesus Christ...did you notice they had a Metrolink logo too, instead of Metro?
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 12, 2011 18:36:25 GMT -8
Well, if the junction is completed in a week, the line will open in six weeks from now, as the prerevenue operation lasts for five weeks. That puts the opening day in early November, which is roughly the end of 2011.
That said, I don't expect them to open the line before November 13.
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Post by ieko on Sept 12, 2011 20:56:14 GMT -8
I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but I haven't heard one person at metro mention anything earlier than January. In fact, the consensus appears to be March because they don't wish to open during the college football season. This sentiment has been going on for a few months now.
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Post by jamesinclair on Sept 12, 2011 23:41:40 GMT -8
I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but I haven't heard one person at metro mention anything earlier than January. In fact, the consensus appears to be March because they don't wish to open during the college football season. This sentiment has been going on for a few months now. That appears to be the "fire everyone, they're all incompetent fools" sentiment.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 13, 2011 8:14:45 GMT -8
I Have a Problem with EXPO Saying thay Need More Time for Testing They Had this Testing schedule and did No Testing on any of the 3-days See Below Testing of train control system and gated crossings between Flower Street/21st Street and Jefferson Boulevard/La Cienega Boulevard:
Wednesday, September 7, 2011 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.
Thursday, September 8, 2011 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.
Friday, September 9, 2011 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.We're not in the trenches..Metro is. I'm sure there's reasons for this, because they're losing the revenue potential everday this puppy is not ready. Let's not get all Tea Party crazy here.....leave it to the engineers to finish up. We all have the same goal, but we're only bloggers, they're the engineers. We don't truly the understand the details of testing. We can only comment on message boards.
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Post by rajacobs on Sept 13, 2011 9:51:16 GMT -8
A published train testing schedule is required to advise the public prior to test initiation. It defines a window when testing is authorized to occur based upon when the Expo contractor anticipates work on the line.
But the schedule does not obligate the contractor to perform work. We all can imagine factors that would delay or inhibit work, factors that could not have been anticipated when the schedule was published.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 13, 2011 10:37:28 GMT -8
I agree also with you expolinefan. I was upset at the Facebook page, specifically, when they would say "late summer" then "fall 2011"...now, "we're waiting for an announcement". But, with rajajacobs said..he's right. It's a notice of advisement but not a guarantee.
Like, when I go to work each day I tell my boss I will achieve "x, y, z"....well, sometimes I can only do partially "x" because of unforseen problems. Though this is a large public works project, s*** happens. But, in the end, everybody gets "x, y, and z" done. It'll be finished. Just let's not get looney and crazy like today's politics and create unforseen anger and fear....
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 13, 2011 11:09:01 GMT -8
Still no train testing today. Perhaps they are done with the testing and are preparing for the Metro prerevenue operation that is supposed to start next week according to what they told at the last board meeting.
Very little work is taking place along the line now. I only saw work at the aerial-station plazas.
Culver City Station is now basically complete except for the plaza, parking, and OCS.
What worries me is the Farmdale Station. There is a lot of work left there and how are they going to work on it while the line is running? It's not going to be easy. If they decide to finish it before they open the line, it won't be before March.
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Post by mattapoisett on Sept 13, 2011 18:35:44 GMT -8
Still no train testing today. I was lucky enough to see a three car train pull into La Cienega at 1-ish today. I am wondering when the gates and tvms wil be installed since I havent seen any of them put in yet.
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Post by jamesinclair on Sept 14, 2011 0:42:17 GMT -8
because they're losing the revenue potential everday this puppy is not ready. Well actually, no. if metro was focused on financials, and ONLY financials, then they would delay testing as long as possible. They will lose more money every day the line is operating because the fares don't cover costs. So one week of not doing anything = one week of not paying x amount of employees to drive y amount of trains and accumulate z amount of maintenance expenses. A truly cynical poster would wonder if the rumored delays to March 2012 are because they don't want the operating costs (losses) to be in this financial year. Again, if metro was concerned about money, and only about money, they would cut 90% of their service. But obviously, thats not the case, as transit is a public good that brings many external benefits to society.
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Post by rajacobs on Sept 14, 2011 4:14:06 GMT -8
That's an amazing analysis, James, the implication of which is that when a non-profit generating public project is over budget (and probably behind schedule) then an argument exists to delay it further in order to save operating expense in the initial fiscal period and thereby "recoup" the budgetary overage.
By avoiding the operating loss in the initial fiscal period (by not staring up the line) the extra project expense (budgetary overage) potentially can be "absorbed" by the budget without as noticeable a budgetary shortfall.
Thanks for the education!
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