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Post by simonla on Oct 21, 2011 17:51:06 GMT -8
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 21, 2011 19:21:17 GMT -8
None of this is encouraging. Flagsmen means the signals and/or gates are not working or, at least, not certified as being working. Since they were all working fine before the rain, it shows the extent of the damage. Metro staff seems highly ambitious in claiming imminent prerevenue-operation start but there is nothing that can be done if things are not operational. They would normally announce prerevenue on a Friday and start it on a Sunday and then open the line on a Sunday four to six weeks later. No announcement today of course. My biggest worry is not that if the line will open before March or in March. My worry is that if it will open in March (not later) and, after it opens, if it will break down frequently or not. It's probably an understatement to call Expo Authority incompetent with Phase 1. They should have canceled the construction contract as soon as the contractor asked for an additional $200 million early in the project. They should have considered the technical qualifications of the contractor, which they didn't but they went by a marginal low bid. The mess they created, with the contractor, power-line relocations, CPUC, overspending, delays, shoddy work, etc., etc. is unbelievable. Let's just hope that Phase 2 goes well and sometime before early to mid-2015, we will start riding this line all the way and without problems. With Phase 1, there is nothing that can be done other than having unlimited patience. There is still a bus bridge planned for the blue line this weekend, but I'm not expecting to see any trains running between 23rd and Pico. I hope to be proven wrong. I've pretty much given up on a 2011 opening and am resigned to March. If it's earlier, great. But I won't be surprised if it's later at this point. And my biggest worry is not that it will be delayed, or even that the line will be plagued with problems after opening. My biggest worry is that Metro still does not have sufficient resources to manage the large number of projects both ongoing and upcoming and that because of that we will get similar overruns and delays for the next two decades.
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Post by macross287 on Oct 21, 2011 19:36:06 GMT -8
According to The Source's Spanish Language Equivalent "El Pasajero" Contractor testing is supposed to be ending this weekend with the line being transferred over to Metro on Monday for system familiarization and personal training. This of course is highly suspect since the testing schedule posted on the El Pasajero page is different from the one posted by BuildExpo and the fact the Source has been mute on this probably means that perhaps this info is not correct. I wonder if Metro even screens El Pasajero as much as The Source. A government agency should not be sending mixed messages regardless of the language its using to communicate with its patrons. Here is the link to the article for those who can read Spanish elpasajero.metro.net/2011/10/21/metro-concluye-fase-de-pruebas-en-la-futura-linea-expo/
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Post by macross287 on Oct 21, 2011 19:56:33 GMT -8
Wait a Minute Something is not adding up here. According to the The Expo Authority there is no train testing going on the Washington Flower Junction this Weekend. www.buildexpo.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/102111-Train-Testing-Update-ENG-and-SPAN-Pkg-.pdfYet Metro has a planned blue line bus bridge this weekend and El Pasajero is stating that Train Testing is occurring between Pico/Flower and Washington/San Pedro or Jefferson/Flower from 7am to 6pm Saturday and Sunday to test the Washington/Flower junction. Could the schedule that El Pasajero is posting be Metro's own internal testing of the line that is separate from the Construction Authority and perhaps maybe the line is in fact being transferred to Metro on Monday. Im really confused right now.
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Post by wad on Oct 22, 2011 4:34:24 GMT -8
My biggest worry is not that if the line will open before March or in March. My worry is that if it will open in March (not later) and, after it opens, if it will break down frequently or not. You know what worries me now? We're going to find out so many more defects after the line is in revenue service that the construction costs will continue to mount even after the project has finished. This is what's happening with the L.A. Community College District, as it now has to hire a new contractor to undo the damage of the shoddy contractor and redo the work that was supposed to be right in the first place.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 22, 2011 8:13:53 GMT -8
Someone needs to get out to Expo and see wth is going on! And take some pictures!
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 22, 2011 9:04:57 GMT -8
Yet Metro has a planned blue line bus bridge this weekend Perhaps, they are doing some repairs at the junction, too? It's strange that Expo Authority told Curbed LA that the rain only caused minor problems which required minor tweaks, while they spent days of pulling hundreds of feet of cables. Let's hope the next big rain doesn't cause any problems. Spanish Source seems to be completely wrong. By the way, since August or so, they have been handing over the line to Metro on Monday.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 22, 2011 10:06:22 GMT -8
Moved from Westside thread for reply. This is a great table, thanks. Expo Phase 1 is still scheduled for December 2011 opening it says. We'll see what they will say this Thursday. Two weeks later and it's slipping. The current handout says Dec/Jan. Obviously the next 2 weeks will be very telling. If pre-revenue testing doesn't start by then, a December opening is no longer an option. Absent any real knowledge of what might be going on, I'd rather they proceed slowly and open when they have all problems resolved. Hopefully by March. The only thing worse than a line being way over budget and opening a year and a half late is being both of those and not working after opening. They should take their time testing and make sure that it's ready to go. If rain was a problem, let's see what happens after the next rain before finalizing a decision. Plus Farmdale and Culver City are so close that it makes sense.
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Post by masonite on Oct 22, 2011 11:06:06 GMT -8
None of this is encouraging. Flagsmen means the signals and/or gates are not working or, at least, not certified as being working. Since they were all working fine before the rain, it shows the extent of the damage. Metro staff seems highly ambitious in claiming imminent prerevenue-operation start but there is nothing that can be done if things are not operational. They would normally announce prerevenue on a Friday and start it on a Sunday and then open the line on a Sunday four to six weeks later. No announcement today of course. My biggest worry is not that if the line will open before March or in March. My worry is that if it will open in March (not later) and, after it opens, if it will break down frequently or not. It's probably an understatement to call Expo Authority incompetent with Phase 1. They should have canceled the construction contract as soon as the contractor asked for an additional $200 million early in the project. They should have considered the technical qualifications of the contractor, which they didn't but they went by a marginal low bid. The mess they created, with the contractor, power-line relocations, CPUC, overspending, delays, shoddy work, etc., etc. is unbelievable. Let's just hope that Phase 2 goes well and sometime before early to mid-2015, we will start riding this line all the way and without problems. With Phase 1, there is nothing that can be done other than having unlimited patience. There is still a bus bridge planned for the blue line this weekend, but I'm not expecting to see any trains running between 23rd and Pico. I hope to be proven wrong. I've pretty much given up on a 2011 opening and am resigned to March. If it's earlier, great. But I won't be surprised if it's later at this point. And my biggest worry is not that it will be delayed, or even that the line will be plagued with problems after opening. My biggest worry is that Metro still does not have sufficient resources to manage the large number of projects both ongoing and upcoming and that because of that we will get similar overruns and delays for the next two decades. I worry too that Metro won't be able to manage all these projects. Expo Phase 1 is a mess but that is not because of the Authority's inexperience or the fact they are managing too much. If anything it is because Rick Thorpe was a little too cocky and got too creative with the contract process. Expo Phase 2 should go much better as I really think they learned their lesson and Thorpe wants to redeem himself and doesn't want to be remembered for Phase 1. The Red Line was similar in that it was a bit of a mess in the first few stages and then the last stage to the Valley was under budget and on time. The question will be who will be the Rick Thorpe on all these other projects. On a confident note, the Eastside Gold Line went very well, except for possibly the last glitch in getting it open after it was essentially finished ahead of schedule and under budget.
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Post by jamesinclair on Oct 22, 2011 12:54:42 GMT -8
It seems like the project has gone from 4 weeks = 1 week delay to 2 weeks = 1 week delay.
Remember when we were talking about opening in time for the USC football season....this year?
No wait, remember when we were talking about opening in time for the book festival.....this year?
What Gokhan said is exactly right "By the way, since August or so, they have been handing over the line to Metro on Monday. "
It feels like its been this way for everything. Actually, Gokhan, you're ot fully right. I believe talk of handing over the line "On Monday" began in July.
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Post by bobdavis on Oct 22, 2011 18:29:12 GMT -8
This is starting to look like some San Francisco Muni projects, the sort that have people saying, "Good grief! I think the Pharoahs got their pyramids built faster than this!" At this rate, we may have the Gold Line opening to Azusa about the same time Expo gets to Santa Monica (not really, but it does seem like building railways has become a lot more complicated than when the San Diego Trolley opened 30 years ago.)
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Post by masonite on Oct 22, 2011 19:43:29 GMT -8
This is starting to look like some San Francisco Muni projects, the sort that have people saying, "Good grief! I think the Pharoahs got their pyramids built faster than this!" At this rate, we may have the Gold Line opening to Azusa about the same time Expo gets to Santa Monica (not really, but it does seem like building railways has become a lot more complicated than when the San Diego Trolley opened 30 years ago.) Unfortunately, the Gold Line is in the same boat as it is already pushed back to 2016 at the earliest. Hopefully, we can get a project under budget and on time again. Maybe the Expo Phase 2 if we are lucky. I see Crenshaw probably being late, but wonder if the Regional Connector and the Westside Extension can go smoothly.
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Post by jamesinclair on Oct 22, 2011 20:39:05 GMT -8
Werent all the crosswalks supposed to be red/textured.
What happened to that....?
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Post by Philip on Oct 23, 2011 10:40:01 GMT -8
In addition to all the problems mentioned above, it still also doesn't help that Los Angeles, by and large, is still ignorant towards public transit as a whole. I think if more people knew what was going on and were invested in these projects like those us here and on TTC, there would be a much higher demand both on Metro and the contractor not to screw this up. Instead, people stick to their cars and remain mystified about why Los Angeles doesn't have a real mass transit system. *sigh*
Getting back to the Expo Line, it is really unfortunate that the delays seem to be mounting by the day, but I'm still excited about the prospect of riding the line in the next few months. L.A. has gone decades without rail in this part of town. A few more months of waiting will not hurt.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 23, 2011 14:49:35 GMT -8
I drove around Expo earlier this afternoon around 1pm and I didn't see any testing. I saw single car sitting at Grand station on track 2 facing north. The operator had the door open and was just waiting. There was an electrician or maybe some other type of technician at an open panel next to track 2 just north of 23rd. He appeared to be working through some issue and was in contact with someone by radio. I didn't see anyone else though. My guess is that it has something to do with either the rain or software as has been posted here.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Oct 23, 2011 15:37:38 GMT -8
There were engineers working on a utility box somewhere between Western and La Brea over an hour ago (Denker?)
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 23, 2011 16:41:13 GMT -8
There were engineers working on a utility box somewhere between Western and La Brea over an hour ago (Denker?) Could you see if they had a laptop? That would indicate a software problem. The guy that I saw didn't have a computer that I could see. Of course not having a computer doesn't mean that it wasn't a software problem. I think that they were testing something and probably software related.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Oct 23, 2011 17:12:22 GMT -8
Could you see if they had a laptop? That would indicate a software problem. The guy that I saw didn't have a computer that I could see. Of course not having a computer doesn't mean that it wasn't a software problem. I think that they were testing something and probably software related. As long as I see people working on the Expo Line, then I know progress is being made. If I saw nobody today, on a Sunday afternoon, then I would have been more concerned.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 24, 2011 14:31:52 GMT -8
I just drove on Flower St. There were several Expo Line trains south of Washington and north of 23rd St, including a Nippon - Sharyo. They were all standing, except one of them was slowly moving across the tracks at the crossover south of Washington. There were orange-vested staff waiting at every rail crossing. I don't know if they were flagsmen or safety ambassadors.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 24, 2011 17:17:53 GMT -8
I just drove on Flower St. There were several Expo Line trains south of Washington and north of 23rd St, including a Nippon - Sharyo. They were all standing, except one of them was slowly moving across the tracks at the crossover south of Washington. There were orange-vested staff waiting at every rail crossing. I don't know if they were flagsmen or safety ambassadors. That reminds me. I should have read the train testing notice prior to driving expo this past weekend. They were only testing after 6pm and were not scheduled to test the blue line junction. Not sure why that required that the blue line be shut down all weekend between Washington and 7th/metro. They weren't doing any work on the blue line portion at all.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Oct 25, 2011 8:02:34 GMT -8
Check this out! Please be advised there may be an increased frequency of trains running on the Expo Line tracks from this point forward. WHAT:Up to four (4) trains may be running on the Expo Line tracks WHERE: Between 23rd St. (at Flower St.) and Western Ave. (at Exposition Blvd.) TIME: Trains may be running on the tracks as frequently as every 10-12 minutes from approximately 6:00 AM to 11:00 PM. Remember, safety begins with you. Thank you for your attention. Please forward this message to staff and constituents and feel free to print and post copies at your location. Sincerely, Stacy S. Yamato Senior Community Relations Officer Transit Education Programs Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (Metro) One Gateway Plaza Mail Stop 99-13-1 Los Angeles, CA 90012-2952 Phone: 213.922.4055 Fax: 213.922.8868 yamatos@metro.net www.metro.net/ridesafelySource: www.universityparkfamily.com/profiles/blogs/expo-line-picks-up-speed-up-to-four-tains-on-the-tacks-at-once
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 25, 2011 8:15:17 GMT -8
^ Thanks for that LAofAnaheim. And now for the pessimist's view (bold added by me). "Please be advised there may be an increased frequency of trains running on the Expo Line tracks from this point forward." So it seems like they're keeping their options open (they also may not be increasing frequency of trains.) "WHERE: Between 23rd St. (at Flower St.) and Western Ave. (at Exposition Blvd.)" So, they will not be increasing frequency of trains beyond Western. IOW, no pre-revenue testing to Crenshaw and beyond.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Oct 25, 2011 8:31:04 GMT -8
^ Thanks for that LAofAnaheim. And now for the pessimist's view (bold added by me). "Please be advised there may be an increased frequency of trains running on the Expo Line tracks from this point forward." So it seems like they're keeping their options open (they also may not be increasing frequency of trains.) "WHERE: Between 23rd St. (at Flower St.) and Western Ave. (at Exposition Blvd.)" So, they will not be increasing frequency of trains beyond Western. IOW, no pre-revenue testing to Crenshaw and beyond. Optimistic view "WHERE: Between 23rd St. (at Flower St.) and Western Ave. (at Exposition Blvd.)" Sounds like everything west of Crensahw is working fine! ;D
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 25, 2011 9:22:38 GMT -8
OK, first of all, this is not prerevenue operation.
Prerevenue operation would have to:
(1) start and end at 7th/Metro Center (not at 23rd) and (2) run with regular headways -- every six minutes in each direction during peak hours -- or every three minutes at a given point on the average (not every 12 minutes).
In my opinion this is pessimistic, showing that the signals and gates are still not working in the private-right-of-way (which is ATP-equipped) section. It's sad that they were working before and they all of a sudden broke down after the rain.
But, on the other hand, it's nice to see that Metro is ambitious with their testing. This is in sharp contrast to how the contractor has been working on this line.
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Post by macross287 on Oct 25, 2011 9:37:08 GMT -8
I thought I heard that expo was supposed to run at 12 minute rush hour headway's with 3 car sets for phase 1 since there are not enough rail cars for more frequent service and to keep frequencies even with the blue line which is supposed to be running at 6 minute headway's when expo opens.
If that's the case this is a positive development even if its not pre-revenue service
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 25, 2011 10:29:46 GMT -8
Well we had a fine mist this morning, hopefully nothing else dissolved.
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Post by rubbertoe on Oct 25, 2011 10:34:32 GMT -8
Well we had a fine mist this morning, hopefully nothing else dissolved. You mean like the Wicked Witch of the Westside
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 25, 2011 10:45:33 GMT -8
The reason they are running more frequent trains now could simply be because they can only run back and forth between 23rd and Western -- not that they've really planned it. After all, they have been running four trains for a long time, except for 2-1/2-times the distance when things used to work until the rain. So, as a result, the headways are 2-1/2-times shorter now because of the shorter distance. LOL
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Post by jamesinclair on Oct 25, 2011 11:44:14 GMT -8
Do they ever test the maximum headways a line can support, like 90 seconds? Or does not get tested but simply implemented as needed?
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 25, 2011 12:06:15 GMT -8
Great video. One needs popcorn while watching it.
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