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Post by Gokhan on Jan 5, 2012 21:42:13 GMT -8
I am guessing this March date is for La Cienega. If this is so, any ideas when it will open to Culver City? I am guessing Culver City will open late summer.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 5, 2012 22:47:23 GMT -8
Listening to the 40:00 of the board meeting audio, there will be another new milestone for the Expo Line Monday night: The very first Expo Line train will run straight through the junction and then into the 7th/Metro Station.
Note that they have been doing noise measurements along the line and the noise is below the FEIR/S maximum limits.
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Post by bzcat on Jan 6, 2012 15:30:17 GMT -8
I am guessing this March date is for La Cienega. If this is so, any ideas when it will open to Culver City? I am guessing Culver City will open late summer. It's too bad they can't accelerate the work there so the line can open at the same time in March.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 8, 2012 11:19:29 GMT -8
I am guessing Culver City will open late summer. It's too bad they can't accelerate the work there so the line can open at the same time in March. Many of us, including me, wanted that, but there wasn't much coordination between Expo and the contractor to have this station built quickly. On top of that, Expo got into a fight with Culver City, further delaying things. Last but not least, Expo's budget problems prevented them from paying the contractor full early-finish incentives and the contractor slowed down when it happened. It looks like this station will open sometime in the summer or (more likely) fall. The concentration now should be on fixing the problems along the line so that when it opens, there won't be accidents, breakdowns, slowdowns, etc. There are still quite a few problems, such as with the train and traffic signals, being identified and solved on a daily basis. This is far more important than opening the Culver City Station.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 8, 2012 14:48:41 GMT -8
Anyone will be there to document and film the Expo Line's maiden voyage into the 7th Street/Metro Center Station tomorrow night?
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Post by carter on Jan 8, 2012 15:36:39 GMT -8
Anyone will be there to document and film the Expo Line's maiden voyage into the 7th Street/Metro Center Station tomorrow night? Remind me what time that's expected to happen? I'll be downtown for the Kings game.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 8, 2012 16:31:19 GMT -8
Anyone will be there to document and film the Expo Line's maiden voyage into the 7th Street/Metro Center Station tomorrow night? Remind me what time that's expected to happen? I'll be downtown for the Kings game. I don't know the time. We need to contact Expo/Metro to find out. It's exciting that the Expo train will be run into the 7th Street/Metro Station for the first time. This will be a big day. Prerevenue operation is now finally approaching.
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Post by rubbertoe on Jan 9, 2012 14:16:59 GMT -8
Expo train reaches 7th/Flower: thesource.metro.net/2012/01/09/expo-line-train-reaches-7thmetro-station-in-test-run/?utm_source%3Drss%26utm_medium%3Drss%26utm_campaign%3Dexpo-line-train-reaches-7thmetro-station-in-test-runPhoto is dated today, and time shows 12:25pm. The interesting thing is that while this represents a milestone in that this may be the first Expo train to make it all the way there, it technically isn't all that big of a deal. All the clearances along the way are guaranteed to be fine, since that stretch of track is already in use by identical vehicles. What I mean by not being a big deal is that once a train gets North of the junction, whether it is a Blue Line train or an Expo Line train, there is no difference in the trip from that point into the 7th/Flower station. Same tracks, and essentially the same vehicles, since they can be used interchangeably. I suppose that the arrival and departure signs would indicate that it is either a Blue or Expo train arriving, so that would be the primary difference, and the same for departing. For trains leaving, there is no difference, except that Expo trains go one way at the switch and Blue trains go the other way. I would think that if the software problem with the older trains is fixed, and the arrival/departure software works, then pre-revenue operations might be coming very soon... RT
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dane
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by dane on Jan 9, 2012 14:17:40 GMT -8
(You are quick on the trigger, Rubbertoe!!) Apparently it happened earlier today (just after midnight): story in The Source.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 9, 2012 14:59:02 GMT -8
Nice! Prerevenue operation (regular service but without passengers) is about the start! Question 1: Did they ever run a Siemens P2000 train into the 7th Street/Metro Center platforms before? Question 2: Will the two platforms be split between the Expo and Blue Lines or between the incoming and outgoing trains?
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Post by darrell on Jan 9, 2012 16:04:49 GMT -8
Question 2: Will the two platforms be split between the Expo and Blue Lines or between the incoming and outgoing trains? That's to be determined during pre-revenue testing. Metro wants to try it both ways to determine which is better at turning trains and handling crowds of passengers.
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 9, 2012 19:42:21 GMT -8
Mark Ridley-Thomas mentioned in his remarks to the Culver City - City Council tonight that Expo will open in 60 days. Since the remarks were extemporaneous, I would take them with a huge grain of salt.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 9, 2012 22:34:45 GMT -8
Mark Ridley-Thomas mentioned in his remarks to the Culver City - City Council tonight that Expo will open in 60 days. Since the remarks were extemporaneous, I would take them with a huge grain of salt. Not only that but no one knows exactly, as the problems are being identified and solved on a daily basis.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 9, 2012 22:36:53 GMT -8
Question 2: Will the two platforms be split between the Expo and Blue Lines or between the incoming and outgoing trains? That's to be determined during pre-revenue testing. Metro wants to try it both ways to determine which is better at turning trains and handling crowds of passengers. Ideally the northbound and southbound platforms would be separate (as opposed to separate Expo and Blue platforms), as it will be when the Downtown Connector is operational.
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Post by rubbertoe on Jan 9, 2012 22:53:31 GMT -8
That's to be determined during pre-revenue testing. Metro wants to try it both ways to determine which is better at turning trains and handling crowds of passengers. Ideally the northbound and southbound platforms would be separate (as opposed to separate Expo and Blue platforms), as it will be when the Downtown Connector is operational. This seems like the right way to go. RT
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Post by jamesinclair on Jan 10, 2012 0:07:18 GMT -8
That's to be determined during pre-revenue testing. Metro wants to try it both ways to determine which is better at turning trains and handling crowds of passengers. Ideally the northbound and southbound platforms would be separate (as opposed to separate Expo and Blue platforms), as it will be when the Downtown Connector is operational. Agreed, especially for people not going very far that could take either train
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Post by joemagruder on Jan 10, 2012 6:57:43 GMT -8
If there is one platform for each line the trains would use the crossovers south of the platform. If one platform is departure and the other arrival the trains would have to go through the station and use the crossovers north of the platform. Either way there is congestion. Which pattern can handle the greatest number of trains per unit of time, especially when trains bunch up?
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2012 8:11:38 GMT -8
Which pattern can handle the greatest number of trains per unit of time, especially when trains bunch up? Once again, when the Downtown Connector is operational, the northbound and southbound trains will use separate platforms. Therefore, this is somewhat a moot discussion. Won't the Expo and Blue trains use the same sides of the platform at the Pico Station for the northbound and southbound trains? If that's the case, there is little reason for them to use the opposite platforms in the 7th Center/Metro Center Station.
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Post by carter on Jan 10, 2012 8:31:31 GMT -8
Agreed, especially for people not going very far that could take either train Right, i.e. those connecting from the Red/Purple Line to Staples Center via Expo/Blue. That said, that number of people might be so few --relative to overall ridership -- that it'd be less confusing to have trains depart on opposite tracks for everyone else who's going past Pico Station. While Gokhan is correct to point out that when the Connector opens it's all moot, that's still 5-6 years away, so it wouldn't be out of the question to have a different departure plan until then.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2012 8:47:26 GMT -8
Metro has a tendency to favor small conveniences or benefits over large, more reasonable conveniences and benefits. For example, a couple of months ago, I found out it the hard way that the 733 bus didn't have a stop near the Rimpau Terminal, which it goes by, and I should have taken the 33 bus if I wanted to transfer to the Blue Bus for the Westside. This story is similar to that for those who are going to wait at the Expo platform for the Pico Station, they will have to wait three times as long as they would with a shared Expo/Blue platform. Major inconvenience for minor, temporary benefits in passenger routing.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2012 9:31:25 GMT -8
By the way, I think separate northbound and southbound platforms would be better for crowd handling as well. Blue Line has a lot of ridership and merging the northbound and southbound platforms for it, with passengers trying to move in the opposite directions, would not be good.
It's a big technical challenge to turn/couple/uncouple the Expo/Blue trains in this premature stage of the system, with lacking maintenance facilities and lacking Downtown connector. I guess they will have to operate three-car Expo trains despite the possible lack of ridership in the early years of the line.
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Post by simonla on Jan 10, 2012 11:15:21 GMT -8
So the LATimes is reporting pre-revenue has begun, though The Source doesn't mention that nor has Metro put out a press release. Curious.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 10, 2012 12:08:36 GMT -8
If there is one platform for each line the trains would use the crossovers south of the platform. If one platform is departure and the other arrival the trains would have to go through the station and use the crossovers north of the platform. Either way there is congestion. Which pattern can handle the greatest number of trains per unit of time, especially when trains bunch up? In the past Metro both tested and operated at high frequency using the crossover north of the platforms. So everyone unloads on the Hope/Flower side (Platform 1) and everyone boards on the Figueroa side (Platform 2). They operated that way when they were running 15-20 tph during the LA Marathon a few years ago. They also said in a memo a few years ago that they did testing at about that same frequency in anticipation of Expo service. It may have been the same thing for all I know because according to the memo and also from what I saw during the marathon, the bunching gets pretty bad. I don't think that they have any problems turning the trains at the station, but the bunching happens on the Flower street running portion. And this was with just the blue line running (half the trains being turned at Imperial/Rosa Parks). It will be worse with Expo trains running. But it's what they'll have to deal with. I think that I mentioned earlier somewhere that one option would be to add a minute or two to the blue line timetable and do the same for Expo so that they can usually "meet" where they are supposed to. Other than that it will probably be very hectic even with Expo only running 5 tph at rush hour for phase 1. I haven't ridden the blue line much lately, but the last time I road at rush hour I noticed that they were no longer unloading on Platform 1 and were instead unloading and loading on Platform 2. When did that change?
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 10, 2012 12:17:46 GMT -8
So the LATimes is reporting pre-revenue has begun, though The Source doesn't mention that nor has Metro put out a press release. Curious. The LA Times sometimes has photos of Metrolink trains when they're reporting on Metro rail. Point is - trust the Source. They actually work with Metro. Even the LA Times, is heresay on this. Until The Source says "Pre-revenue operations has started", then I'll believe it.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 10, 2012 14:20:52 GMT -8
Two platforms at Pico station is a must. With Expo, Farmers Field, and other new attractions opening in Downtown all the time, the station is going to become hazardous with only one crowded platform to accommodate riders for both directions.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 10, 2012 14:23:37 GMT -8
So the LATimes is reporting pre-revenue has begun, though The Source doesn't mention that nor has Metro put out a press release. Curious. The LA Times sometimes has photos of Metrolink trains when they're reporting on Metro rail. Point is - trust the Source. They actually work with Metro. Even the LA Times, is heresay on this. Until The Source says "Pre-revenue operations has started", then I'll believe it. I agree. But for what it's worth, here is the L.A. Times story. Expo Line could be ready for rail passengers in early April January 9, 2012 | 4:34 pm Metro officials Monday said they have entered the final phase of testing along the first segment of the Expo Line, a signal that the train could open to the public by early April.
The final testing phase, called pre-revenue service, generally takes about three months and simulates actual service but without passengers.
It includes training some 100 operators and supervisors along the full segment from the 7th Street/Metro Center stop downtown to the La Cienega/Jefferson stop 7.9 miles away at the eastern edge of Culver City.
Officials have not yet set an opening date and said the final testing phase could run shorter or longer.
Technical problems previously held up the testing, specifically at the junction where the Expo Line shares tracks with the Blue Line. The issue was that signals from the track were not reaching rail operators along that part of the line.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2012 15:06:23 GMT -8
If there is one platform for each line the trains would use the crossovers south of the platform. If one platform is departure and the other arrival the trains would have to go through the station and use the crossovers north of the platform. Either way there is congestion. Which pattern can handle the greatest number of trains per unit of time, especially when trains bunch up? In the past Metro both tested and operated at high frequency using the crossover north of the platforms. So everyone unloads on the Hope/Flower side (Platform 1) and everyone boards on the Figueroa side (Platform 2). They operated that way when they were running 15-20 tph during the LA Marathon a few years ago. They also said in a memo a few years ago that they did testing at about that same frequency in anticipation of Expo service. It may have been the same thing for all I know because according to the memo and also from what I saw during the marathon, the bunching gets pretty bad. I don't think that they have any problems turning the trains at the station, but the bunching happens on the Flower street running portion. And this was with just the blue line running (half the trains being turned at Imperial/Rosa Parks). It will be worse with Expo trains running. But it's what they'll have to deal with. I think that I mentioned earlier somewhere that one option would be to add a minute or two to the blue line timetable and do the same for Expo so that they can usually "meet" where they are supposed to. Other than that it will probably be very hectic even with Expo only running 5 tph at rush hour for phase 1. I haven't ridden the blue line much lately, but the last time I road at rush hour I noticed that they were no longer unloading on Platform 1 and were instead unloading and loading on Platform 2. When did that change? Thanks for the info. Regarding bunching, it will happen regardless of which platform do you use for what at 7th/Flower. The only sure way to prevent it would be to build four tracks, but that's not happening.
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dane
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by dane on Jan 10, 2012 15:07:01 GMT -8
New optomistic posters on the Gold Line last night...
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2012 15:12:38 GMT -8
The LA Times sometimes has photos of Metrolink trains when they're reporting on Metro rail. Point is - trust the Source. They actually work with Metro. Even the LA Times, is heresay on this. Until The Source says "Pre-revenue operations has started", then I'll believe it. I agree. But for what it's worth, here is the L.A. Times story. Expo Line could be ready for rail passengers in early April January 9, 2012 | 4:34 pm Metro officials Monday said they have entered the final phase of testing along the first segment of the Expo Line, a signal that the train could open to the public by early April.
The final testing phase, called pre-revenue service, generally takes about three months and simulates actual service but without passengers.
It includes training some 100 operators and supervisors along the full segment from the 7th Street/Metro Center stop downtown to the La Cienega/Jefferson stop 7.9 miles away at the eastern edge of Culver City.
Officials have not yet set an opening date and said the final testing phase could run shorter or longer.
Technical problems previously held up the testing, specifically at the junction where the Expo Line shares tracks with the Blue Line. The issue was that signals from the track were not reaching rail operators along that part of the line.I can confidently say that the information in this article is false. For one thing Metro has not entered the prerevenue operation yet. What do they mean by last phase is probably the last phase of the system-integration testing (Phase 2), where now they are testing the junction and the shared track with the Blue Line. Once this last phase of Phase 2 is completed, Phase 3 -- prerevenue operation -- will begin. You can count on Metro that they will issue a news release in advance before that happens. The rest of the information in the article is also spotty. Prerevenue operation doesn't have to take three months -- it could be as short as about a month. The information given about the technical problem is also not completely accurate -- the signals only weren't picked up by the Nippon - Sharyo trains; the Siemens trains were fine.
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 10, 2012 15:15:08 GMT -8
New optomistic posters on the Gold Line last night... Oh my God, when you ride the Expo Line, there will be vicious-dinosaur attacks and ambushes by sword-yielding Trojan warriors on the way?
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