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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 29, 2012 11:41:21 GMT -8
I am glad you enjoyed them! Yes sir, I did! That makes sense, but unless I'm mistaken the green and blue line elevated stations all have escalators although the gold line freeway stations don't. Also, maybe it was my imagination, but La Cienega felt taller than the rest. I guess that it felt a little odd to climb that many steps without an escalator, but the reasoning makes sense. Escalator repair tends to be frequent, take a long time, and I'm sure that much money is spent on it. Edit: Maybe not all of the blue line stations have them. In fact, maybe just Rosa Parks.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 29, 2012 12:16:19 GMT -8
Don't you think that signal priority (ie lights changing at irregular intervals when trains approach) would be confusing for both drivers and pedestrians and potentially lead to more accidents? Not if it's done properly. There is signal priority at Exposition/Rodeo and it works perfectly. The only drawback is some additional delay on vehicle traffic, which is why LADOT doesn't want it. I guess that there must be some way to do it, but if they did it like Rodeo/Exposition it could take several minutes for lights to change depending on train traffic. Ok for cars because over time drivers could learn to find alternate routes, but not so great for pedestrians. And we should expect to have more pedestrians as the rail system, downtown/LA Live/convention center, etc expand.
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 29, 2012 12:31:38 GMT -8
Metro doesn't build escalators on outdoor stations. They are afraid that they will break too often because of weathering. All aerial Expo stations have two elevators and two stairs (and two emergency stairs I think). Not true, Metro has plenty of elevated stations with escalators. A few examples: Willowbrook (Rosa Parks) ( follow link for image) Aviation Chinatown
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 29, 2012 12:46:54 GMT -8
Ah, OK, but I guess for current and future projects, they don't want to build escalators because of maintenance issues.
I also noticed that at La Cienega the hole that goes through the elevated structure is much larger than the staircase. They probably thought of putting escalators next to the staircase but then they gave up. Unfortunately this large hole makes the platform very narrow at that location.
Yes, I also noticed that the La Cienega Station is an awfully high climb, not suited for those who are not fit. They would have to take the elevators, which are very nice. Nowadays the vehicular clearance requirements for the bridges are very high and they make the access for elevated stations more difficult.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 29, 2012 12:50:00 GMT -8
Not if it's done properly. There is signal priority at Exposition/Rodeo and it works perfectly. The only drawback is some additional delay on vehicle traffic, which is why LADOT doesn't want it. I guess that there must be some way to do it, but if they did it like Rodeo/Exposition it could take several minutes for lights to change depending on train traffic. Ok for cars because over time drivers could learn to find alternate routes, but not so great for pedestrians. And we should expect to have more pedestrians as the rail system, downtown/LA Live/convention center, etc expand. I think waiting areas at the median would allow pedestrians to wait when a train is coming. Also, signal priority can be made so that when a train is approaching, the ped signal doesn't go green to begin with.
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Apr 29, 2012 13:15:11 GMT -8
I rode to La Cienega/Jefferson and a on the platform now and can say that there's still a good crowd. On the train I was in, everybody had a seat. Other trains had 1 - 3 standees.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 29, 2012 13:47:53 GMT -8
I think waiting areas at the median would allow pedestrians to wait when a train is coming. Also, signal priority can be made so that when a train is approaching, the ped signal doesn't go green to begin with. Oh yeah, I understand. But with trains coming so frequently and somewhat irregularly there can be trains approaching for significant time periods. Pedestrians might wait for several minutes longer than normal depending on where the trains are. Just thinking about how difficult it would be to coordinate 12th and Pico and then extending that coordination/prioritization to the rest of the the Flower cross streets seems pretty difficult to me, but perhaps it's just me. If it were only one line it would be much easier because you know that trains are only going to arrive at certain intervals. With two lines, it gets much more complicated.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 29, 2012 13:56:35 GMT -8
I rode to La Cienega/Jefferson and a on the platform now and can say that there's still a good crowd. On the train I was in, everybody had a seat. Other trains had 1 - 3 standees. Thanks for the update and nice meeting you yesterday. With only 1-3 standees you can bet that there were quite a few empty seats. Some people - especially people that don't ride often - will prefer to stand than sit next to someone that they don't know. Or stand next to the group that they are with rather than sit somewhere else. The last train that I rode from La Cienega yesterday had a few standees in my car, but there were probably 10 empty seats scattered about, if not more. Regardless I'm convinced that this line will be very successful and will become LA's flagship light rail line with by far the most riders per mile. I may have to change my member name!
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Post by mattapoisett on Apr 29, 2012 15:06:50 GMT -8
I asked Roland Genick about the escalators back in 2007 at a station design meeting. He said they were designing the station for the installation of escalators but they were not going to install them since there wasn't any money in the project for them. They could be added at a later date. Ah, OK, but I guess for current and future projects, they don't want to build escalators because of maintenance issues. I also noticed that at La Cienega the hole that goes through the elevated structure is much larger than the staircase. They probably thought of putting escalators next to the staircase but then they gave up. Unfortunately this large hole makes the platform very narrow at that location. Yes, I also noticed that the La Cienega Station is an awfully high climb, not suited for those who are not fit. They would have to take the elevators, which are very nice. Nowadays the vehicular clearance requirements for the bridges are very high and they make the access for elevated stations more difficult.
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Post by davebowman on Apr 29, 2012 15:22:20 GMT -8
As a USC employee it was great to see the Expo Line open yesterday and USC finally be connected to the Metro rail system. I had assumed the frequent stops on Flower between Expo Park/USC station and 7th St./Metro Center were due to the opening day timetable, but if it will be like this during normal operation it will be very frustrating.
I thought the vintage SM Airline photos and text embedded into the sidewalk tiles at Expo Park/USC station were a nice touch. Do other stations have this?
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 29, 2012 16:40:23 GMT -8
I thought the vintage SM Airline photos and text embedded into the sidewalk tiles at Expo Park/USC station were a nice touch. Do other stations have this? I think that they all have them. This is a good one to post whenever there are problems that shut the line down. Just in fun of course.
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Post by carter on Apr 29, 2012 17:17:46 GMT -8
As a USC employee it was great to see the Expo Line open yesterday and USC finally be connected to the Metro rail system. I had assumed the frequent stops on Flower between Expo Park/USC station and 7th St./Metro Center were due to the opening day timetable, but if it will be like this during normal operation it will be very frustrating. The timetable puts that trip at 10 minutes. www.metro.net/riding_metro/bus_overview/images/806.pdf
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Apr 29, 2012 18:24:59 GMT -8
1080i HD video of the first public run of the Metro Expo Line on 28 April 2012 @ 4:54am out of 7th Street/Metro Center in Downtown L.A. (Video is in 3D, which can be turned off.)
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 29, 2012 20:30:04 GMT -8
Thanks for the video Tony. Also, according to the Wave there were "up to 44,000 boardings" yesterday.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Apr 29, 2012 21:45:03 GMT -8
The 44,000 sounds about right. It was easy boarding on the Expo Line on Saturday outside of 7th street or La Cienega, but unlike the Gold Line Eastside Extension which left people stranded at stations and a near 2 hour wait at Union Station, Expo was smooth flowing. I was even allowed to ride with my bike! I chilled out at 23rd St station for 30 min and there were some trains in which only 10 people boarded. Outside of 7th street, USC/Expo and La Cienega, stations were light.
Anyways, good opening for the Expo Line. Metro was way too overstaffed (fear of the Gold Line Eastside Extension repeat of frustrated waits I'm sure). Can't wait to see how ridership is during the week. I'll be riding my bike from 26th/Santa Monica to La Cienega tomorrow night after work so I'll see what the night crowd looks like.
With the Kings, Clippers and Lakers in the playoffs, hopefully we see a lot of Westsiders take advantage of Expo Line to Staples Center!
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Apr 30, 2012 5:20:59 GMT -8
1080i HD video of the first public run of the Metro Expo Line on 28 April 2012 @ 4:54am out of 7th Street/Metro Center in Downtown L.A. (Video is in 3D, which can be turned off.) 2D only version for those (particularly mobile users) who can't disable 3D or want a sharper HD video www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlHrN1cu9MBTW, over the past weekend, I find the outbound Expo Line runs to be spot on with the 27 - 28 minute run time, but some inbound trips took almost 40 minutes! I'd be curious with the normal operation starting today if the Expo Line can run without delays.
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Post by bzcat on Apr 30, 2012 8:59:41 GMT -8
As a USC employee it was great to see the Expo Line open yesterday and USC finally be connected to the Metro rail system. I had assumed the frequent stops on Flower between Expo Park/USC station and 7th St./Metro Center were due to the opening day timetable, but if it will be like this during normal operation it will be very frustrating. The timetable puts that trip at 10 minutes. www.metro.net/riding_metro/bus_overview/images/806.pdfI rode the line twice over the weekend. Both time, the actual travel time between Expo Park and Metro Center were over 20 minutes.
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Post by carter on Apr 30, 2012 11:19:36 GMT -8
I rode the line twice over the weekend. Both time, the actual travel time between Expo Park and Metro Center were over 20 minutes. Let's see how things go over the next week with normal service under way. I can't imagine Metro publishing timetables saying 10 if they didn't think they could do it in 10 minutes. Certainly, 20 minutes would be way off.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 30, 2012 12:06:19 GMT -8
I rode the line on the first revenue day today from La Cienega to work. The parking structure was only about 25% full. The ridership was very light, about 20 people in a car. This puts the initial Expo ridership at around 7,000. The trip from La Cienega to Vermont took 12 minutes and 23 seconds -- 2 minutes faster than the schedule!It was a very pleasant experience, except for the toddler who got on the train with his mother and toddler sister and had a very loud tantrum all along, crying "I don't want it (to ride the train)!" Already a NIMBY at that age. It kinda ruined the ride. I did notice that the access interface at the Vermont Station is quite dangerous -- you find yourself immediately next to cars when you exit the ramp of the station. I did wait on the ramp until the light turned green and then got off and started crossing the street.
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Post by jamesinclair on Apr 30, 2012 14:54:44 GMT -8
"I did notice that the access interface at the Vermont Station is quite dangerous -- you find yourself immediately next to cars when you exit the ramp of the station. I did wait on the ramp until the light turned green and then got off and started crossing the street."
I brought that up a few months ago. I dont understand why expo didnt build a pedestrian island, the ramp leads directly onto the asphalt. It makes no sense....unless the plan was to make things as comfortable as possible for drivers.
As for ridership, I wouldnt worry. Of course ridership is light, the constant delays mean most people have no idea that it has opened.
I dont expect ridership to really pick up until the fall semester starts at USC.
And hopefully, in the fall expo was release a timetable that actually makes sense.
20 minute headways after 8pm is an insult.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 30, 2012 17:35:39 GMT -8
I rode the line on the first revenue day today from La Cienega to work. The parking structure was only about 25% full. The ridership was very light, about 20 people in a car. This puts the initial Expo ridership at around 7,000. That's not bad at all for the first revenue day, especially for mid-day. The gold line East LA seemingly ran for months with smaller rush hour crowds than that and mid-day trains with less than 10 people total. There's a post somewhere in the East LA gold line thread about the first accident and the report was that the one person on the train at the time (mid-day) was uninjured.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 30, 2012 18:13:36 GMT -8
I rode the line on the first revenue day today from La Cienega to work. The parking structure was only about 25% full. The ridership was very light, about 20 people in a car. This puts the initial Expo ridership at around 7,000. That's not bad at all for the first revenue day, especially for mid-day. The gold line East LA seemingly ran for months with smaller rush hour crowds than that and mid-day trains with less than 10 people total. There's a post somewhere in the East LA gold line thread about the first accident and the report was that the one person on the train at the time (mid-day) was uninjured. I remember "the one person on the train." Probably someone from this board.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 30, 2012 18:20:06 GMT -8
The trip from La Cienega to Vermont took 12 minutes and 23 seconds -- 2 minutes faster than the schedule! Coning back westbound, it took 12 minutes and 30 seconds (also allowing for a 15-second dwell at the last station) -- still about 2 minutes faster than the schedule! This is despite the operator pulling to the La Cienega Station ridiculously slowly. It would have been about 11 minutes otherwise, 3 minutes faster than the schedule. So, it looks like the line is already getting faster! But then what makes public transit slow is not really how fast the lines are. It's more how much time you spend getting to/from the train and waiting for the train. Walking, driving, bus, etc. to get to the train and waiting for the train constitute the most of the trip time. Therefore, it hardly matters whether Expo takes 29 minutes to Culver City or 20 minutes.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 30, 2012 19:12:57 GMT -8
But then what makes public transit slow is not really how fast the lines are. It's more how much time you spend getting to/from the train and waiting for the train. Walking, driving, bus, etc. to get to the train and waiting for the train constitute the most of the trip time. Therefore, it hardly matters whether Expo takes 29 minutes to Culver City or 20 minutes. Exactly!
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Post by bobdavis on May 1, 2012 1:33:32 GMT -8
I rode Expo for a "first day of revenue service" experience. Trains are mostly 100-class cars with one or two 200-class. There appear to be some 200's on the Blue Line. There are apparently no more 200's on the Gold. It looks like most, if not all of the stations along Expo have the PE graphic paving stones. I got off at USC/Exposition Park to get photos of the track cracks on McClintock Ave. on the USC campus--this is where the LARy "U" line ran until about 1948. On the other side of the tracks is the Rose Garden at Expo Park--I've offered my wife a train trip to the garden since it's a shorter walk from the Expo line than from the parking lot. The Expo train I rode around noon time had a fairly good load; the train from the park back downtown was a bit lighter. At 7th and Flower, Metro has personnel making very emphatic announcements about which trains go to La Cienega, and which go to Long Beach. The operators are also announcing that the trains will stop at Farmdale, but the doors will not open, and it's quite obvious that it's still under construction.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 1, 2012 6:27:35 GMT -8
IINM 20 minute headways after 8pm is also the blue line headway. It's only at 10 minutes now because of the temporary increase to 10 minutes on all of the lines.
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Post by metrocenter on May 1, 2012 8:13:41 GMT -8
"I did notice that the access interface at the Vermont Station is quite dangerous -- you find yourself immediately next to cars when you exit the ramp of the station. I did wait on the ramp until the light turned green and then got off and started crossing the street." I brought that up a few months ago. I dont understand why expo didnt build a pedestrian island, the ramp leads directly onto the asphalt. It makes no sense....unless the plan was to make things as comfortable as possible for drivers. Bollards would help.
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Post by Gokhan on May 1, 2012 8:30:44 GMT -8
I rode Expo for a "first day of revenue service" experience. Trains are mostly 100-class cars with one or two 200-class. There appear to be some 200's on the Blue Line. There are apparently no more 200's on the Gold. It looks like most, if not all of the stations along Expo have the PE graphic paving stones. I got off at USC/Exposition Park to get photos of the track cracks on McClintock Ave. on the USC campus--this is where the LARy "U" line ran until about 1948. On the other side of the tracks is the Rose Garden at Expo Park--I've offered my wife a train trip to the garden since it's a shorter walk from the Expo line than from the parking lot. The Expo train I rode around noon time had a fairly good load; the train from the park back downtown was a bit lighter. At 7th and Flower, Metro has personnel making very emphatic announcements about which trains go to La Cienega, and which go to Long Beach. The operators are also announcing that the trains will stop at Farmdale, but the doors will not open, and it's quite obvious that it's still under construction. There are still track cracks on McClintock? I would like to see the pictures.
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Post by Gokhan on May 1, 2012 8:37:49 GMT -8
IINM 20 minute headways after 8pm is also the blue line headway. It's only at 10 minutes now because of the temporary increase to 10 minutes on all of the lines. Actually for the Expo Line, it's much worse than that. It's 20-minute headways after 6:29 pm. It's really bad. A lot of people don't get off work until 7 pm. Deal breaker for a lot of people.
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Post by joshuanickel on May 1, 2012 8:41:17 GMT -8
Metro's Service Advisory Page lists the Farmdale and Culver City Stations being unopened until Saturday June 16th: www.metro.net/service/advisories/rail/ Expo Line Unopened Stations Station: Farmdale, Culver City Friday, April 27, 2012 — Saturday, June 16, 2012
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