|
Post by bluelineshawn on May 5, 2012 10:05:39 GMT -8
I agree, but the junction and 7th/metro are kinks and street running rail is always going to be off schedule some so it is going to be tough to address this and if they start running 6 minute headways it is really going to be a big problem. This is a major issue and the line is really performing below expectations. Someone on Wikipedia has an estimate of time to La Cienega at 19 minutes and to Santa Monica in 36 minutes. It is taking 36 minutes sometimes just from La Cienega. Some serious misestimates going on. Granted the Expo Authority has a 46 minute estimate to SM. That is not going to be met unless there is improvement. I'm not sure that I agree. They are kinks in that you can't physically fit two trains headed in the same direction through the junction at the same time, nor can two trains headed in the same direction platform at Pico or 7th/metro at the same time. As long as these two conditions exist, delays will happen any time a train is slightly late before arriving at the junction and then if the trains are frequent enough (rush hour) the junction and 7th/metro will limit their ability to catch up and get back on schedule. Like I said earlier, the fact that the junction is not the major contributor to delays can be seen by looking at the run times towards La Cienega versus towards downtown. The junction doesn't delay trains as much as other trains are delaying trains. The large majority of the delays are into downtown, not away from downtown.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 5, 2012 20:35:18 GMT -8
The ridership was heavier today (Saturday) than the week days last week. Perhaps because it was Cinco de Mayo, perhaps Staples Center games, or perhaps people like to take the Expo Line for entertainment. Some people are still exploring it for the first time. We'll see when the commuters will start taking the line as well.
I think Expo Line would really benefit from 12-minute headways in the weekends.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 6, 2012 0:45:32 GMT -8
In gross violation of ADA, La Cienega Station elevators were out of service on this busy Saturday. Since there are no escalators, it's a big problem for wheelchairs, bicycles, and elderly, also considering how high the station is. I don't know the reason, whether they were broken down or deliberately out of service. I was able to call the east elevator by pushing over the out-of-service-taped button and then we took it down. The west elevator's door was taped.
|
|
|
Post by wad on May 6, 2012 4:20:40 GMT -8
Although, the initial cost of small buses are probably much less -- you are probably looking at $100,000 versus $500,000. Santa Monica already has the "Mini Blue Bus." LADOT also has the Dash mini bus, which is very successful. It's not the buses; it's the drivers. LADOT has private contractors to pay drivers lower wages. Santa Monica drivers are in-house employees, not to mention some of the highest paid in the U.S.
|
|
|
Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on May 6, 2012 4:52:43 GMT -8
In gross violation of ADA, La Cienega Station elevators were out of service on this busy Saturday. Since there are no escalators, it's a big problem for wheelchairs, bicycles, and elderly, also considering how high the station is. I don't know the reason, whether they were broken down or deliberately out of service. I was able to call the east elevator by pushing over the out-of-service-taped button and then we took it down. The west elevator's door was taped. Here in Montreal (on which the LA metro is partly modeled) most stations don't have elevators - or even escalators for every level. You have to hoof it. The town is a lot thinner as a result. I think there are 4 or 5 stations that have elevators - at each end of the line. If you need to use one, you're told to go there!
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on May 6, 2012 6:17:09 GMT -8
In gross violation of ADA, La Cienega Station elevators were out of service on this busy Saturday. Since there are no escalators, it's a big problem for wheelchairs, bicycles, and elderly, also considering how high the station is. I don't know the reason, whether they were broken down or deliberately out of service. I was able to call the east elevator by pushing over the out-of-service-taped button and then we took it down. The west elevator's door was taped. I wonder what happened. When elevators are taken out of service on the blue line they offer shuttle buses back to the station with the elevators out. I don't see anything on Metro's website about it. I'm guessing that there were no announcements?
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on May 6, 2012 6:33:23 GMT -8
The ridership was heavier today (Saturday) than the week days last week. Perhaps because it was Cinco de Mayo, perhaps Staples Center games, or perhaps people like to take the Expo Line for entertainment. Some people are still exploring it for the first time. We'll see when the commuters will start taking the line as well. I think Expo Line would really benefit from 12-minute headways in the weekends. The ridership that I observed was possibly higher than what I saw on opening day. Actually definitely higher on the bit that I rode (downtown to USC), but since that's not where the really high opening day ridership was I have to qualify it. Also Pico station was pretty busy and quite a few Expo riders transferred to the blue line. More than I was expecting anyway. At least 15-20. And probably about the same number of Expo riders exited the station. Likely headed to LA Live. Expo does have 12-minute headways on the weekend. Do you mean evenings? They probably will if the 12-minute headways continue, but that's not a given. IIRC the 12-minute headways are because Metro had excess operating funds in their budget that resulted from Expo not being open when planned. IOW they had money in the budget to run Expo trains and since Expo wasn't running they used that money to run extra service on the other lines. Now that Expo is open I expect that all of the lines would go back to their normal schedules in June. Hopefully not, but not sure where the money would come from to continue. I came across an anti-Expo article yesterday. Two writers counted passengers for two days during the first week of service and concluded that the train won't break even for 65 years! What morons!
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on May 6, 2012 8:48:24 GMT -8
There are repairmen working on the west elevator, but the east elevator is in service.
Ridership is light but it's early. There were a couple dozen people on my westbound train and maybe a little less boarding EB at La Cienega.
Noticed both yesterday and today that the announcements are frequently wrong about the station.
Also when leaving 7th/metro there were two consecutive blue line trains followed by two expo trains. Not sure if that's the schedule or if trains get out if sync even at 12-minute headways on a Sunday morning.
|
|
|
Post by joemagruder on May 6, 2012 9:10:50 GMT -8
The article Bluelineshawn refers to is in "Reason" a libertarian publication that has no use for any public expenditure.
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on May 6, 2012 9:32:33 GMT -8
The article Bluelineshawn refers to is in "Reason" a libertarian publication that has no use for any public expenditure. True. But you still wouldn't expect them to be so blatantly intellectually dishonest. They won't be back in 2 months when trains are packed and their readers will be misinformed. There are plenty of Angelenos that are under the impression that very few people ride trains here. When I tell them that trains are packed at rush hour they don't believe me. Also expo ridership is already picking up this morning. It's maybe half the blue line ridership per mile right now.
|
|
|
Post by simonla on May 6, 2012 11:23:22 GMT -8
Does anyone know what's preventing pre-revenue to Culver City? Why does it have to wait until the end of the month now (according to the Expo Const. Board Mtg.)? And what else needs to be done at both CC and Farmdale?
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 6, 2012 12:59:49 GMT -8
In gross violation of ADA, La Cienega Station elevators were out of service on this busy Saturday. Since there are no escalators, it's a big problem for wheelchairs, bicycles, and elderly, also considering how high the station is. I don't know the reason, whether they were broken down or deliberately out of service. I was able to call the east elevator by pushing over the out-of-service-taped button and then we took it down. The west elevator's door was taped. Here in Montreal (on which the LA metro is partly modeled) most stations don't have elevators - or even escalators for every level. You have to hoof it. The town is a lot thinner as a result. I think there are 4 or 5 stations that have elevators - at each end of the line. If you need to use one, you're told to go there! That system sounds ancient. Even the third-world countries don't neglect the elderly and handicapped these days.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 6, 2012 13:02:06 GMT -8
I came across an anti-Expo article yesterday. Two writers counted passengers for two days during the first week of service and concluded that the train won't break even for 65 years! What morons! Yes, why don't they try to estimate how long it will take for the roads to pay for their construction and operating costs, with $0 in constant revenues.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 6, 2012 13:04:48 GMT -8
Does anyone know what's preventing pre-revenue to Culver City? Why does it have to wait until the end of the month now (according to the Expo Const. Board Mtg.)? And what else needs to be done at both CC and Farmdale? I think testing was completed quickly in one day and there is no point in starting the prerevenue operation, which costs money, until a month before the completion. Why would you do an eight-week prerevenue operation while a four-week prerevenue operation is also accepted by CPUC and FTA?
|
|
|
Post by jdrcrasher on May 6, 2012 16:59:44 GMT -8
I came across an anti-Expo article yesterday. Two writers counted passengers for two days during the first week of service and concluded that the train won't break even for 65 years! What morons! Something tells me that "reason" website is run by conservatives. I wouldn't waste my time with it. Still... see, like I told you guys, political affiliation DOES have an impact on funding transit. Make no mistake about it, conservatives/republicans are the primary obstacle to expanding public transportation opportunities. VERY few liberal/democrats are opposing it.
|
|
|
Post by jamprit on May 6, 2012 18:29:38 GMT -8
Reason is a libertarian think tank and anti-public transit in general, so take this with a grain of salt.
|
|
|
Post by jamesinclair on May 6, 2012 20:42:32 GMT -8
I wonder what happened. When elevators are taken out of service on the blue line they offer shuttle buses back to the station with the elevators out. I don't see anything on Metro's website about it. I'm guessing that there were no announcements? From what I understand, if ADA access is offline, a shuttle MUST be provided to a station with access within a reasonable time frame. Thats why every new transit station in the country is being built with 2 elevators. The redundancy is to avoid the need for emergency shuttles ----- RE: reason Yes, why don't they try to estimate how long it will take for the roads to pay for their construction and operating costs, with $0 in constant revenues. Look at their funding. Theyre not a foundation, theyre an advertizing arm of an oil company. www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Reason_FoundationSpecifically: Koch Family Foundations: Charles G. Koch Foundation $57,000 Claude R. Lambe Foundation $857,000 David H. Koch Foundation $1,522,212 Exxon Mobil $105,000 Oh, and many of those other foundations listed? if you follow THEM, youll find THEYRE funded by the Koch bros as well, theyre just used to hide the real source. On top of that, Reason and Heritage Foundation both frequently cite each other as sources. IE: Reason will publish a "report" claiming that nobody rides trains. The Heritage will publish an article saying that nobody rides trains, and this other "independent" foundation, Reason completely agrees. Finally, a third foundation posts an article showing "mounting claims" that trains are bad. Take a guess at who funds Heritage and the third foundation. Somewhat related, this is a great article about how they operate. www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayerThe focus is obviously on Obama (hence the title) but if I recall correctly, it goes into detail on the various organizations mentioned above. Its a very long article, so I have no time to pull quotes. Moral of story: The article isn't crap by accident.
|
|
|
Post by spokker on May 6, 2012 23:14:10 GMT -8
The whole Reason thing is silly because all libertarians don't all agree on the same thing. There are plenty who would slam highways and support highway tolls so that they do pay for themselves. Looking at funding is equally silly. Tim Cavanaugh and other individual writers likely believe in what they say and are not influenced by oil money. They write for Reason because they've always had those views and they sure as hell are not going to be accepted at the Huffington Post. The Transit Coalition is always looking to increase its funding and is trying to do so through grants. If we get a huge grant from the American Public Transportation Association, or Metro, or a bus manufacturer, should everything we say be shot down because of that transfer of money? Absolutely not. We believe what we believe and the same goes for Reason or Heritage or liberal think tanks. Hell, The Transit Coalition has put out opinions that supported fare increases because some of us do think that riders should pay more to cover operations or at least cover increases in costs to run service. We're not looking at 100% farebox recovery, but we do feel that it's not always wise to rely completely on volatile public funding. The point is that there are pros and cons to running a public good or a profitable service, or some combination. libertarians should be listened to as well as liberals. And I've been putting "we need to raise the gas tax" articles in the weekly newsletter since forever. Still... see, like I told you guys, political affiliation DOES have an impact on funding transit. Make no mistake about it, conservatives/republicans are the primary obstacle to expanding public transportation opportunities. VERY few liberal/democrats are opposing it. No, actually, the primary obstacle is that funding itself is scarce. The recession was responsible for dwindling tax revenues which hit transit agencies hard. Political balance of power is not a good argument because in places where the state/county/city is solidly blue, what is the excuse? Caltrain, for example, continues to kick the can down the road and is predicting another budget deficit for 2013. The Bay Area lacks a dedicated funding source for commuter rail despite a clear need and a clear mandate to get it done. Liberals in the Bay Area have not made headway on this front. To say that conservatives are the primary thing standing in the way of improved public transit is ridiculous and ignores the very real obstacles. You can't blame the conservative boogeyman when there are relatively fewer of them running around in California. This state is solidly in the hands of Democrats. And look at San Diego, solidly a historic red county with a wonderful little light rail system that is looking at extensions and upgrades to existing facilities. You've also got Coaster and the Sprinter. Also take a look at Phoenix, Houston and Dallas.
|
|
|
Post by wad on May 7, 2012 3:53:48 GMT -8
Caltrain, for example, continues to kick the can down the road and is predicting another budget deficit for 2013. The Bay Area lacks a dedicated funding source for commuter rail despite a clear need and a clear mandate to get it done. The Bay Area also has the problem of BART having first dibs for all transportation funding in the areas it serves. BART can reconcile its books by beggaring local transit agencies. This has been a problem since the beginning. The worry of Bay Area officials was that providing a multicounty transit system would lead to donor and free-rider counties. The first dibs policy solved that, but instead created the problem of trains starving local transit within county borders. I'm surprised no one in the Bay Area tried for a consent decree.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 7, 2012 11:47:39 GMT -8
I think I was the one and only passenger on the three-car Expo Line train this morning until we got to Crenshaw -- my giant personal limousine. Culver City Station will increase the ridership a lot. Also, when USC and other schools start the next academic year, we should see a big jump in ridership. Hopefully they will move the 733 stop to Venice/Robertson once the station opens. Big Blue Bus will definitely do so, which I plan to take from Palms to the Culver City Station.
|
|
|
Post by masonite on May 7, 2012 14:27:02 GMT -8
I think I was the one and only passenger on the three-car Expo Line train this morning until we got to Crenshaw -- my giant personal limousine. Culver City Station will increase the ridership a lot. Also, when USC and other schools start the next academic year, we should see a big jump in ridership. Hopefully they will move the 733 stop to Venice/Robertson once the station opens. Big Blue Bus will definitely do so, which I plan to take from Palms to the Culver City Station. Where is the 733 stop right now? Moving it to the Culver City Station seems like a complete no-brainer. It is a reasonably straight and fast shot to the beach from here.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 7, 2012 14:50:35 GMT -8
I think I was the one and only passenger on the three-car Expo Line train this morning until we got to Crenshaw -- my giant personal limousine. Culver City Station will increase the ridership a lot. Also, when USC and other schools start the next academic year, we should see a big jump in ridership. Hopefully they will move the 733 stop to Venice/Robertson once the station opens. Big Blue Bus will definitely do so, which I plan to take from Palms to the Culver City Station. Where is the 733 stop right now? Moving it to the Culver City Station seems like a complete no-brainer. It is a reasonably straight and fast shot to the beach from here. The stop is currently at National. I am suspecting that Metro doesn't have any plans to move it to Robertson or add another stop at Robertson.
|
|
|
Post by spokker on May 7, 2012 16:05:05 GMT -8
I think I was the one and only passenger on the three-car Expo Line train this morning until we got to Crenshaw -- my giant personal limousine. What time was this? Is the Culver City terminus where most of the transfers are anticipated to take place? It being the terminus and the site of a big parking structure, I wonder how much that is hurting ridership.
|
|
|
Post by LAofAnaheim on May 7, 2012 16:56:20 GMT -8
The stop is currently at National. I am suspecting that Metro doesn't have any plans to move it to Robertson or add another stop at Robertson. Why do you say that? Metro made it very clear that all Locals and Rapids will stop at the Expo Line station once the train went into service on the weekend of April 28th. And that's what happened. Why would Metro avoid connecting the very popular 733 with Venice/Robertson? This is a no-brainer and it will happen (evidence: all other Metro Rapids/Locals are now stopping at Expo Line if crossing paths).
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 7, 2012 17:11:50 GMT -8
I am currently on a westbound Expo train. It's being held at Vermont by the command center because there is no traction power west of Farmdale. They just announced now that we will be single-tracking around that area.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on May 7, 2012 17:21:03 GMT -8
Train reversing at Western and a bus bridge to La Cienega. Sux.
|
|
|
Post by transituser23 on May 7, 2012 18:07:54 GMT -8
Was on an expo train westbound to La Cienega station at 5:30pm but we were told to get off the train at Crenshaw due to unspecified problem. Waited at corner for a promised shuttle bus for 20 minutes but it did not show up; ...walked to Jefferson and took bus to La Cienega station. Total delay getting home: One hour. Anyone know what happened?
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on May 7, 2012 18:31:30 GMT -8
Power issues according to the Metro twitter feed and the posts above yours.
|
|
|
Post by thedessie on May 7, 2012 19:24:22 GMT -8
There were pretty severe delays on the 4:11 train today too. Lots of grumbling about missed connections and such.
I know kinks are expected when something is new, but all the problems are giving the line a bad name. I hope they can work things out soon.
|
|
|
Post by Philip on May 7, 2012 22:33:08 GMT -8
You know, I've been reading a lot recently -- "The line is a boondoggle!" "The line has poor ridership..." "The line is slow!" etc. etc. etc.
The line has been open for a week and a half. We all knew there were bound to be issues. A few however, I'd like to address:
1) Speed - as others have said, the line will likely gain speed with time. It does no one any good if they try to run the line faster and an accident or some other kind of freak thing happens. The signal issue will hopefully be resolved within the next few weeks/months ahead, and even then, perhaps we will see the line get faster.
2) Low Ridership - The line presently ends at a lackluster area, school at USC is practically finished, and another station has yet to open. These three things alone are offsetting a good chunk of the potential ridership.
Let's also not forget that this is Los Angeles; as of 2010, I met people who have lived here far longer than me (we're talking years) who didn't even know L.A. had a subway. It's likely that most people are not even aware of the line's existence yet, hard as it might be for us to believe.
3) This has been mentioned here before by Ken Alpern and others and it bears repeating - like both the Pasadena and Eastside branches of the Gold Line before it, a big problem with ridership on the Expo Line will be the lack of a Downtown Connector. Union Station is not Downtown, Downtown is not Union Station, and that gap will be a ridership problem until the Regional Connector is finally built.
To sum it up: let's be patient and relax. The line may not be the runaway hit we were all hoping for at once, but I personally am happy with the way things are progressing so far (maintenance issues aside) and can't wait to see what will happen when Culver City becomes accessible, when Farmdale opens, when the fall semester starts at USC...and so on and so on.
|
|