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Post by masonite on May 8, 2012 8:33:51 GMT -8
I live in Santa Monica and work at USC, and when Phase 2 opens I plan to take the train to work, at least occasionally. I've worked at USC for over 30 years, and have never taken mass transit to work because it would take forever. I've hated not having a viable option to driving to work, and never dreamed I would spend so much of my adult life commuting on the 10 freeway. Unfortunately I don't live close to downtown SM, so taking the Metro 534 Express to the end of the Phase 1 line would be complicated. One work-around I've plotted out is taking the Big Blue Bus #10 Freeway Express from 26th St./Santa Monica Blvd. to Pico/Grand in downtown LA, and then backtracking on the Expo Line from Pico Station to USC/Expo Park. As to whether I'll take the train to work every day when Phase 2 opens, a lot depends on timing and headways. It can take a long time to get a Walk signal to cross Exposition at Trousdale Parkway, and it would be frustrating to stand there for 2-3 minutes while the next train passes by. I figure that even with increasingly bad freeway congestion, when factoring in walking to and from the stations (I live five blocks from Bergamot Station), and waiting for trains, riding the Expo Line instead of driving will probably add about an extra hour a day to my commute. Unfortunately I've worked at USC long enough to have a precious on-campus parking permit for a lot close to my office. The trade-off will be that it will be a less stressful to take the train, cheaper, I'll be able to read an extra hour or so every day while in transit, and walking to and from the stations every day will be good exercise. I don't see how it would be an extra hour. I could see 30 minutes depending on how you fast you walk. Remember Phase II will have 6 minute headways so you won't be waiting long for a train and SC's campus is not big (it takes 10 minutes to walk across the whole thing for me so unless your office is up by the baseball field this shouldn't take more than 5-6 minutes). Also, it should be pretty fast between SM and SC. It is a tradeoff people will have to consider. Younger people would rather be on their phones, while many older people just can't be away from their cars. I walk to work currently and really enjoy the 12 minutes I am outside, because I am stuck inside all day. It is not natural for the human body to sit in an office all day and then sit in an automobile in traffic afterwards. I would think SC would compensate you quite well for your parking spot so even if you got a monthly pass your commute costs would be negative.
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Post by masonite on May 8, 2012 8:57:19 GMT -8
You know, I've been reading a lot recently -- "The line is a boondoggle!" "The line has poor ridership..." "The line is slow!" etc. etc. etc. The line has been open for a week and a half. We all knew there were bound to be issues. A few however, I'd like to address: 1) Speed - as others have said, the line will likely gain speed with time. It does no one any good if they try to run the line faster and an accident or some other kind of freak thing happens. The signal issue will hopefully be resolved within the next few weeks/months ahead, and even then, perhaps we will see the line get faster. 2) Low Ridership - The line presently ends at a lackluster area, school at USC is practically finished, and another station has yet to open. These three things alone are offsetting a good chunk of the potential ridership. Let's also not forget that this is Los Angeles; as of 2010, I met people who have lived here far longer than me (we're talking years) who didn't even know L.A. had a subway. It's likely that most people are not even aware of the line's existence yet, hard as it might be for us to believe. 3) This has been mentioned here before by Ken Alpern and others and it bears repeating - like both the Pasadena and Eastside branches of the Gold Line before it, a big problem with ridership on the Expo Line will be the lack of a Downtown Connector. Union Station is not Downtown, Downtown is not Union Station, and that gap will be a ridership problem until the Regional Connector is finally built. To sum it up: let's be patient and relax. The line may not be the runaway hit we were all hoping for at once, but I personally am happy with the way things are progressing so far (maintenance issues aside) and can't wait to see what will happen when Culver City becomes accessible, when Farmdale opens, when the fall semester starts at USC...and so on and so on. I think we'll end up at around 25k passengers a year from (April 2013). Pure guess on my part. However, the line is suffering from bad word of mouth. People aren't that impressed with the design and the overall slowness of it. I don't see them being able to improve the times much. They have been testing for a long time. Maybe they can get to a more reliable timeframe and try to keep the 26 minutes from La Cienega, but even that is probably hoping too much. Hopefully, I am wrong on this. I disagree on the Regional Connector being a big issue. Unlike Union Station, 7th Street is the heart of the Financial District and Downtown. Sure the Connector will help, but it is not similar to the Gold Line.
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Post by Gokhan on May 8, 2012 8:58:14 GMT -8
I live in Santa Monica and work at USC, and when Phase 2 opens I plan to take the train to work, at least occasionally. I've worked at USC for over 30 years, and have never taken mass transit to work because it would take forever. I've hated not having a viable option to driving to work, and never dreamed I would spend so much of my adult life commuting on the 10 freeway. Unfortunately I don't live close to downtown SM, so taking the Metro 534 Express to the end of the Phase 1 line would be complicated. One work-around I've plotted out is taking the Big Blue Bus #10 Freeway Express from 26th St./Santa Monica Blvd. to Pico/Grand in downtown LA, and then backtracking on the Expo Line from Pico Station to USC/Expo Park. As to whether I'll take the train to work every day when Phase 2 opens, a lot depends on timing and headways. It can take a long time to get a Walk signal to cross Exposition at Trousdale Parkway, and it would be frustrating to stand there for 2-3 minutes while the next train passes by. I figure that even with increasingly bad freeway congestion, when factoring in walking to and from the stations (I live five blocks from Bergamot Station), and waiting for trains, riding the Expo Line instead of driving will probably add about an extra hour a day to my commute. Unfortunately I've worked at USC long enough to have a precious on-campus parking permit for a lot close to my office. The trade-off will be that it will be a less stressful to take the train, cheaper, I'll be able to read an extra hour or so every day while in transit, and walking to and from the stations every day will be good exercise. I don't see how it would be an extra hour. I could see 30 minutes depending on how you fast you walk. Remember Phase II will have 6 minute headways so you won't be waiting long for a train and SC's campus is not big (it takes 10 minutes to walk across the whole thing for me so unless your office is up by the baseball field this shouldn't take more than 5-6 minutes). Also, it should be pretty fast between SM and SC. It is a tradeoff people will have to consider. Younger people would rather be on their phones, while many older people just can't be away from their cars. I walk to work currently and really enjoy the 12 minutes I am outside, because I am stuck inside all day. It is not natural for the human body to sit in an office all day and then sit in an automobile in traffic afterwards. I would think SC would compensate you quite well for your parking spot so even if you got a monthly pass your commute costs would be negative. An hour of extra time round-trip time for light-rail vs. driving is a gross exaggeration. For me it adds about 10 - 15 minutes one way to USC. Regarding Trousdale, the signal changes every 80 seconds; therefore, the average wait time is 40 seconds. It's the same when you drive -- you have to wait for the green light at every crossing before you can proceed. Sure, driving is more convenient than transit -- it's usually faster; you have your peace, and you don't have to walk, especially in bad weather. But one advantage of taking transit is physical activity. People don't realize but driving is actually very bad for your health -- sitting in a car seat for more than an hour a day with virtually no movement, also inhaling freeway smog, makes you rather unhealthy without you knowing it.
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Post by JerardWright on May 8, 2012 10:46:24 GMT -8
You know, I've been reading a lot recently -- "The line is a boondoggle!" "The line has poor ridership..." "The line is slow!" etc. etc. etc. The line has been open for a week and a half. We all knew there were bound to be issues. A few however, I'd like to address: 1) Speed - as others have said, the line will likely gain speed with time. It does no one any good if they try to run the line faster and an accident or some other kind of freak thing happens. The signal issue will hopefully be resolved within the next few weeks/months ahead, and even then, perhaps we will see the line get faster. 2) Low Ridership - The line presently ends at a lackluster area, school at USC is practically finished, and another station has yet to open. These three things alone are offsetting a good chunk of the potential ridership. Let's also not forget that this is Los Angeles; as of 2010, I met people who have lived here far longer than me (we're talking years) who didn't even know L.A. had a subway. It's likely that most people are not even aware of the line's existence yet, hard as it might be for us to believe. 3) This has been mentioned here before by Ken Alpern and others and it bears repeating - like both the Pasadena and Eastside branches of the Gold Line before it, a big problem with ridership on the Expo Line will be the lack of a Downtown Connector. Union Station is not Downtown, Downtown is not Union Station, and that gap will be a ridership problem until the Regional Connector is finally built. To sum it up: let's be patient and relax. The line may not be the runaway hit we were all hoping for at once, but I personally am happy with the way things are progressing so far (maintenance issues aside) and can't wait to see what will happen when Culver City becomes accessible, when Farmdale opens, when the fall semester starts at USC...and so on and so on. I think we'll end up at around 25k passengers a year from (April 2013). Pure guess on my part. However, the line is suffering from bad word of mouth. People aren't that impressed with the design and the overall slowness of it. I don't see them being able to improve the times much. They have been testing for a long time. Maybe they can get to a more reliable timeframe and try to keep the 26 minutes from La Cienega, but even that is probably hoping too much. Hopefully, I am wrong on this. I disagree on the Regional Connector being a big issue. Unlike Union Station, 7th Street is the heart of the Financial District and Downtown. Sure the Connector will help, but it is not similar to the Gold Line. I think that number by next year will be at a low to mid 20K mostly due to the adjustments to the bus connections, however given that projections are at 10,000 riders in the first week without all the major bus-rail interface changes and the line not reaching Culver City this is encouraging and very positive. However the improvement with the Regional Connector is not on ridership but I think delays and back-up to other lines because the trains are running through and not switching at 7th Street. Personally, I believe this is an operational problem that can be remedied in time with the operators getting use to the schedule and finding streamlining and improving the operations of the line.
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Post by davebowman on May 8, 2012 11:03:48 GMT -8
As I've gotten older I've definitely started to feel the effects of sitting at a desk or in my car 8 1/2 to 9 hours a day. The added exercise of walking to and from the Expo Line stations will definitely be good for me, although I've timed the walk between my condo and Bergamot Station, and it's a good 15 minutes for an added 30 minutes of travel time a day, although the additional hour or so a day of reading time on the train will definitely be a plus. Maybe I'll get a bike and ride it to Bergamot Station, and park it there and hope it doesn't get stolen while I'm at work at USC.
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Post by John Ryan on May 8, 2012 12:57:03 GMT -8
From The Source:
Expo Line to power up to Culver City tonight
The overhead electrical wires that deliver power to Expo Line trains is scheduled to be turned on early Tuesday evening, meaning test trains will be able to run between the La Cienega/Jefferson station and the Culver City station at Venice and Robertson.
No opening date has been announced for the Culver City segment of the line — the last station that is part of the first phase of the project. Work on the Culver City station and parking lot has been proceeding and is almost complete.
...
Will they need a full six week testing or could they make do with shorter, such as four?
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Post by Gokhan on May 8, 2012 13:09:29 GMT -8
From The Source: Expo Line to power up to Culver City tonight
The overhead electrical wires that deliver power to Expo Line trains is scheduled to be turned on early Tuesday evening, meaning test trains will be able to run between the La Cienega/Jefferson station and the Culver City station at Venice and Robertson. No opening date has been announced for the Culver City segment of the line — the last station that is part of the first phase of the project. Work on the Culver City station and parking lot has been proceeding and is almost complete. ... Will they need a full six week testing or could they make do with shorter, such as four? Good to know. I don't think there is such thing as "full six weeks" or four weeks. As we saw in Phase 1, prerevenue operation is loosely defined and four weeks is probably all that is required, if that at all. The key in prerevenue operation is to exercise how to turn the trains around at Culver City. Revenue trains will have to unboard everyone at La Cienega and then proceed to Culver City and then come back. You can't simply run a train back and forth between LC and CC because that doesn't simulate actual operation and count as prerevenue operation.
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Post by RMoses on May 8, 2012 13:58:04 GMT -8
From The Source: Expo Line to power up to Culver City tonight
The overhead electrical wires that deliver power to Expo Line trains is scheduled to be turned on early Tuesday evening, meaning test trains will be able to run between the La Cienega/Jefferson station and the Culver City station at Venice and Robertson. No opening date has been announced for the Culver City segment of the line � the last station that is part of the first phase of the project. Work on the Culver City station and parking lot has been proceeding and is almost complete. ... Will they need a full six week testing or could they make do with shorter, such as four? I wonder if they were testing last night and it caused the outage, coincidence?
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Post by Gokhan on May 8, 2012 18:33:37 GMT -8
No delays this evening, in fact 2 minutes faster than the schedule.
When I was driving from the LC parking lot, I noticed that the light on the Culver City track was green -- indicating go for the trains.
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Post by bobdavis on May 8, 2012 22:06:52 GMT -8
At least the Expo Line won't have a transit workers strike less than two months after opening day like the Gold Line had in 2003.
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Post by calwatch on May 9, 2012 0:58:22 GMT -8
I am thinking Expo to Culver City by shakeup day, June 17 2012. Incidentally that should also be the day the Orange Line extension opens.
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Post by Gokhan on May 9, 2012 11:45:38 GMT -8
There is still no train testing in Culver City, as of today. But it looks like the tracks are now ready. It's probably that Metro and/or the contractor haven't finished their testing plan yet.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 9, 2012 14:08:29 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on May 9, 2012 15:10:11 GMT -8
Nice. They let him on a test train and a platform not open yet.
I wonder why they are not testing during the day. They can probably manage it despite the La Cienega Station being in service.
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Post by Gokhan on May 9, 2012 18:55:35 GMT -8
I just ran into Tom Jasmin of Metro operations on the La Cienega platform, who was talking to the Bafour Beatty crew getting ready to start this evening's test runs.
He said they are going to test the interlock for the next five nights or so. He also said that it was tested before but got cannibalized by the La Cienega opening. (It makes me think that Metro staff wanted the line to be opened to Culver City but the board pushed for a La Cienega opening.) This interlock will be used to turn the trains around once the Culver City Station opens. Currently the interlock at La Cienega is being used to turn the trains around.
Once Balfour Beatty finishes testing, Metro will start prevenue operations, which means revenue trains will unboard all passengers at La Cienega and continue to all the way to Culver City and then come back and board the passengers at La Cienega. I asked how long it will take and he said it depends when they want to open it. He said the city wants the station to be opened on June 20.
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andop2
Junior Member
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Post by andop2 on May 10, 2012 8:38:12 GMT -8
The logistics of the La Cienega parking structure are quite limiting. There is only one entrance/exit (on Jefferson) and a forced right turn onto Jefferson (no light). The problem is that continuing to the Westside requires a complicated U-Turn on Jefferson, or a left on small neighborhood streets or Hauser, which is still small and congested at rush hour. To make a right turn loop, one has to drive all the way to La Brea. I can imagine a full parking structure trying to empty out at rush hour would be a nightmare, both in the structure and in the neighborhood. The amount of wasted time would seriously discourage transit riders.
Luckily, most people will find the Culver City parking lot a better choice, with entrances/exits on Washington, National, and Venice (via the Exposition Blvd stub). It may turn out (with better bus connections and parking at Culver City) that the La Cienega lot is little used.
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Post by bzcat on May 10, 2012 10:08:36 GMT -8
I have a feeling that La Cienega garage will only fill up on special event days (like USC football game on Saturday).
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Post by Gokhan on May 10, 2012 12:06:57 GMT -8
Bad news: More and more people are parking in the La Cienega parking structure everyday, and today Level 3 was completely full. From the trend it's now certain that it will reach its capacity very soon. Regarding access, yes, getting out of it is a pain. It's right turn only and you need to go for a block to the next intersection and then make a U turn.
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Post by Justin Walker on May 10, 2012 12:29:42 GMT -8
Bad news: More and more people are parking in the La Cienega parking structure everyday, and today Level 3 was completely full. From the trend it's now certain that it will reach its capacity very soon. Regarding access, yes, getting out of it is a pain. It's right turn only and you need to go for a block to the next intersection and then make a U turn. From what I saw, you could also enter and exit the garage from the small access road on garage's south side. This allows cars to also enter from and exit to northbound La Cienega.
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Post by masonite on May 10, 2012 12:32:01 GMT -8
The logistics of the La Cienega parking structure are quite limiting. There is only one entrance/exit (on Jefferson) and a forced right turn onto Jefferson (no light). The problem is that continuing to the Westside requires a complicated U-Turn on Jefferson, or a left on small neighborhood streets or Hauser, which is still small and congested at rush hour. To make a right turn loop, one has to drive all the way to La Brea. I can imagine a full parking structure trying to empty out at rush hour would be a nightmare, both in the structure and in the neighborhood. The amount of wasted time would seriously discourage transit riders. Luckily, most people will find the Culver City parking lot a better choice, with entrances/exits on Washington, National, and Venice (via the Exposition Blvd stub). It may turn out (with better bus connections and parking at Culver City) that the La Cienega lot is little used. FYI, it would never empty out at the same time. With Phase 1, you would never have a train coming more than 12 minutes apart. This is only a problem when you have a concert or sporting event emptying out at the same time. Theoretically, after a USC game if everyone got on the train at Expo Park headed to La Cienega and got off and into their cars at the same time this could be an issue, but that won't happen. People go to different destinations (aka Culver City, etc...)
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Post by Gokhan on May 10, 2012 12:38:26 GMT -8
Bad news: More and more people are parking in the La Cienega parking structure everyday, and today Level 3 was completely full. From the trend it's now certain that it will reach its capacity very soon. Regarding access, yes, getting out of it is a pain. It's right turn only and you need to go for a block to the next intersection and then make a U turn. From what I saw, you could also enter and exit the garage from the small access road on garage's south side. This allows cars to also enter from and exit to northbound La Cienega. Yes, I've been using the rear exit, which provides easy access to La Cienega Blvd northbound. But I need to get on the left-turn-to-Jefferson lane from that exit, which is only possible if the traffic completely stops and cars let you zigzag between them to cross three lanes, which is unnerving.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 10, 2012 13:03:23 GMT -8
People should ride a bike, walk or take a bus to a Metro station. Ridership is low because Phase I stations between Western through Culver City are park-n-rides. The only real destinations are USC/Expo Park, Jefferson, Pico and 7th street. We need housing and offices walking distance to stations. Make transit convenient for people and not cars. Did you notice how heavy the ridership is on the Red Line? How many park-n-rides are there outside of Universal City and NoHo station? All other stations (even if there is a garage like Hollywood/Highland) have offices, entertainment complex and housing. That's how you build sustainable ridership. Why would I exit La Cienega station? But I do have a reason to get off of Expo Park/USC station.
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Post by Gokhan on May 10, 2012 19:17:37 GMT -8
Culver City Station is planned to be opened for the 7th Annual Culver City Artwwalk.
While the date for the artwalk hasn't been set because of the uncertainty in the Expo Line opening, the goal is to open the Expo Line Culver City Station on or around June 20, 2012.
When I spoke to the Metro director of the operations again tonight, he said that the testing is going perfectly and he has never seen a rail line in LA built to a such high degree of accuracy. During the tests, they put the trains to extreme conditions. Even with two trains literally spaced 5-ft-apart -- running nose-to-nose -- the control circuits were able to maintain very high speeds for the trains. He said, the circuits in the Gold Line and other lines never managed to allow such high speeds. He was very happy and excited. The technology advances with each new rail line built in LA!
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Post by jdrcrasher on May 10, 2012 19:31:03 GMT -8
^ That's good news! Oh, and I finally went on the Expo Line a couple days ago. Sure was awesome! Not many people on it. But then again, it was early in the afternoon.
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outthere15
New Member
Take back the rails
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Post by outthere15 on May 10, 2012 20:10:27 GMT -8
I find it interesting that Metro has not updated the maps showing the existence of the Expo Line.
I was on jury duty today and took the Redline, getting off at the City Hall station and noticed that none of the maps at the subway entry showed the new Expo Line. If I had just spent nearly a billion dollars on the most anticipated expansion of the system since the demise of the old Red Cars, I would make sure that I spent the $5 for the new insert maps, but, that's just who I am. Obviously I don't know as much as the guys running the system. ; }
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Post by bobdavis on May 10, 2012 20:42:47 GMT -8
Regarding the comment above: "People should ride a bike, walk, or take a bus to a Metro station." People should, and eventually, more of them will, but don't expect the majority of Southern Californians to leave their cars at home (or sell them) any time soon. The habit of the personal car being the "default setting" for local transportation will take a while to break.
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Post by jdrcrasher on May 10, 2012 21:47:55 GMT -8
Something i forgot to mention: I noticed that at the 7th Metro Station, the color coding dots in the overhead signs are still blue. At first, i actually got confused and wondered whether i was on the wrong platform, as there was no train present. Fortunately, a nearby Metro worker said i was on the right side.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on May 10, 2012 22:00:37 GMT -8
People should ride a bike, walk or take a bus to a Metro station. Ridership is low because Phase I stations between Western through Culver City are park-n-rides. The only real destinations are USC/Expo Park, Jefferson, Pico and 7th street. We need housing and offices walking distance to stations. Make transit convenient for people and not cars. Did you notice how heavy the ridership is on the Red Line? How many park-n-rides are there outside of Universal City and NoHo station? All other stations (even if there is a garage like Hollywood/Highland) have offices, entertainment complex and housing. That's how you build sustainable ridership. Why would I exit La Cienega station? But I do have a reason to get off of Expo Park/USC station. Walking, bicycling, and taking buses to the train station? You're way too progressive! Jk that's more like how it ought to be. Frankly, I've arrived at more destinations in LA by bus, bike or train than a car about 100:1 not to mention down Exposition Blvd more times by bike than train or car. Keep fighting the good fight and leading by example! What else is at LaCienega/Jefferson station? The best BBQ shack in LA is a block north at LaCienega/Fairfax! Trust me. I'm from Memphis and so are the owners. Also, about the only Target in LA that's walking distance to Metro Rail.
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Post by jamesinclair on May 10, 2012 22:45:26 GMT -8
People should ride a bike, walk or take a bus to a Metro station. Ridership is low because Phase I stations between Western through Culver City are park-n-rides. The only real destinations are USC/Expo Park, Jefferson, Pico and 7th street. We need housing and offices walking distance to stations. Make transit convenient for people and not cars. Did you notice how heavy the ridership is on the Red Line? How many park-n-rides are there outside of Universal City and NoHo station? All other stations (even if there is a garage like Hollywood/Highland) have offices, entertainment complex and housing. That's how you build sustainable ridership. Why would I exit La Cienega station? But I do have a reason to get off of Expo Park/USC station. Look at Dallas, park and rides are sooooo successful.... The biggest failing of expo was it was designed as a far-flun suburban commuter rail route. Bike and pedestrian access is abysmal.
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Post by Gokhan on May 10, 2012 23:46:23 GMT -8
At this point, it has become virtually certain that the Culver City Station will open before June 30.
Culver City has delayed the Artwalk this year for the opening of the Expo Line. Normally, it's on the first Saturday of June. As the Metro Head of Rail Operations told me, Culver City wants them to open the line on June 20, which means that they want to do the Artwalk on Saturday, June 23.
Since the testing is going more than perfectly right now -- in fact the track circuits are working better than they have anywhere else in LA county -- and the construction seems to be proceeding well toward the end-of-May-completion schedule, the June 20 has more than 50% chance of being the actual opening day. It could be a few days earlier or later according to fine-tuning of plans.
In any case, expect an official announcement of the opening day within about two weeks from now, and it could more than likely be the June 20 they are planning right now.
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