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Post by metrocenter on Jan 14, 2011 10:14:11 GMT -8
Here is an image from blogdowntown.com, showing the old and new proposed routes through Little Tokyo: Image credit: Eric Richardson, blogdowntown.comBoth plans have the station and junction located under the block bordered by First and Second Streets, Central and Alameda. Under the old plan (red tracks), Metro would do cut-and-cover tunneling under 2nd Street, and would need to purchase the Office Depot property, to put the station there. Under the new plan (green tracks), Metro would bore the tunnel all the way from the Mangrove Site (Nikkei Center) under Japanese Village Plaza to Second Street. The station would be located under the parcels on the north end of the block, where Senor Fish, Weilands and surface parking now stand. These parcels would be acquired to allow cut-and-cover construction of the station. The properties to the south (Office Depot, etc.) would not be impacted. More details of the new proposed plan will be available in the next two months.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 14, 2011 16:23:36 GMT -8
I must admit it's taken a little while for me to figure out what will go and what can stay.
If I could, I would turn that block around 180 degrees. Stupid parking lot (the one at the south corner) would disappear and I could grin happily. Ah well.
The NIMBYs are either asleep or they don't care. Which means that the final question mark is whether Metro will construct this thing in such a way that development of the Mangrove/ Nikkei Center property is still possible/ still feasible.
Presumably something will go there, hopefully something with strong ties to the Japanese American community.
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Post by jdrcrasher on Jan 14, 2011 18:08:31 GMT -8
I like the new (green tracks) plan because it makes a 2nd Connector more easy to build.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 15, 2011 9:25:49 GMT -8
The old plan had a sharp curve at the bottom of the Office Depot block. This curve would have required trains coming from the west to come nearly to a stop, then do a sharp turn north, before entering the station.
The new plan eliminates the sharp curve. I would think this would shorten the trip through Downtown by maybe 30 seconds, or more.
There will however be a sharper curve now, from the Connector to the Pasadena branch. So maybe it's a wash.
I know it's been said before, but I really look forward to riding this new subway through Downtown. Imagine, entering the subway at First and Central, and just a few minutes later, emerging at Disney Hall, or 7th/Metro, or Staples Center! Can't wait until 2019!
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 15, 2011 13:13:40 GMT -8
The Connector would certainly make Anime Expo easier. (And Comic-Con, if Los Angeles manages to snag that long-shot.) I want to make sure that it's as easy as possible for convention otaku to sleep, shop or eat in Little Tokyo. = BTW, this was buried in the backside of the L.A. Times' architectural review, so I didn't notice it until it was pointed out to me, but it does make it sound like the Broad art museum will keep Regional Connector visitors in mind: "Around the exterior of the building, the ideas being pursued by Broad, developers and the CRA have the potential to significantly deepen the museum's relationship with the surrounding urban context. "Given that a new train station, part of Metro's recently approved Regional Connector, is planned to be built by the end of the decade at Hope and 2nd Streets, the new L-shaped plaza could offer a direct connection between the transit system and the museum — and the rest of Grand Avenue's cultural institutions." - I actually like the new design for the Broad. And while there won't be an entrance at 2nd and Hope, it is encouraging to know that the subway station won't be forgotten, either.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 15, 2011 16:31:35 GMT -8
Does Little Tokyo realize the economic explosion it will have once the Connector is opened? Of any neighborhood that will benefit significantly (7th street will benefit marginally better than currently), it will be Little Tokyo. People coming from East LA will transfer to trains to Long Beach, vice versa; and people coming from Pasadena will transfer to trains to Santa Monica; vice versa. This will be one mega transfer station for the entire network. The amount of people coming in/out of Little Tokyo will be huge. Time for some new hotels, dense urban housing, and cultural institutions to rise on those parking lots around Temple, 2nd street and Alameda!!!!
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 16, 2011 11:36:41 GMT -8
Well, to be perfectly honest, people making transfers at the Little Tokyo Eki won't be buying stuff in Little Tokyo, they'll be hopping from one train to the next.
That's why I mentioned Anime Expo in my last post. Anime otaku and cosplayers would be perfect for Little Tokyo's type of business.
There already are hotels in the area, the huge Kyoto Grand (formerly New Otani, likely to change owners soon), and the smaller, but fairly awesome Miyako (I've stayed there and relatives have stayed there as well, it's a nice but overlooked place).
However, without the quick and easy link between the convention center and Little Tokyo, people haven't been staying in Little Tokyo (at least, not as much as they could be). The Regional Connector will improve that situation.
And cultural institutions? The station will be across the street from the Japanese American National Museum, which is next door to the Geffen. It's just down the street and through Japanese Village Plaza to Japanese American Cultural and Community Center.
I still think the Nikkei Center would have been the best use for the Mangrove property, and it had community suport because it would have been built by community leaders. I still hope that something similar to Nikkei Center will rise on that corner.
EDIT: I do think that the new station will bring people to Little Tokyo. But it won't happen with just transfers. You need Little Tokyo to be a gathering place.
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Post by tobias087 on Jan 17, 2011 2:17:48 GMT -8
I think it will bring some people to little Tokyo because of transfers. Specifically bus transfers. 7th st right now has many many buses running to it, and some of them run fairly infrequently, so popping into a shop for some food while waiting for an off-peak Silver Line or the like isn't unreasonable. As the eastern end of the RC, Little Tokyo will probably also end up having a decent number of buses routed to it.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 17, 2011 7:22:35 GMT -8
I don't think that anything like the Nikkei Center will occupy that property. Once the connector opens, what would make the most sense would be a hotel. It's rail adjacent, freeway close, near the center of Little Tokyo, and walking distance to many government offices. And it's in an area that needs better hotel choices. I'd almost be surprised to see anything else.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 17, 2011 8:26:39 GMT -8
James is right in that rail-to-rail transfers are not going to bring any money or activity to Little Tokyo. And as far as bus transfers, remember that Little Tokyo will be only one of five stations on the common track (which will stretch from Pico to Little Tokyo), and Metro may not choose to make Little Tokyo the bus hub.
More than anything, this neighborhood will benefit by being accessible from all four branches of light-rail, coming from completely different regions of the county. But the same can be said about the Disney Hall and Broadway stations as well.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 17, 2011 8:37:56 GMT -8
Changing the subject, I'm thinking about the fact that when the RC opens, 7th/Metro will be one of the busiest stations in the system, and the only one served by four lines (Red, Purple, Blue and Gold). We've talked about Metro possibly adding a north portal at 6th Street (City National Plaza). I'd also like to see a new south portal, in Macy's Plaza.
I think this would benefit that shopping mall greatly, by bringing in potential customers through the building. And in return, the building could be marked with Metro signs as well, announcing the presence of the subway station.
Any thoughts?
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Post by trackman on Jan 17, 2011 9:16:11 GMT -8
^^^ Sounds like a winner to me. In fact, any more portals on the south side of 7th Street is a good thing. South downtown seems to be where the next growth area is happening. LA Live, residential condo towers, on and on.
On the south side of 7th and Figueroa would be a good thing too.
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Post by jdrcrasher on Jan 17, 2011 9:47:16 GMT -8
If a portal were to go on 7th and Figueroa, why not take a step further and integrate it with the proposed renovation project of the mall there? There's already plans for a Target there. la.curbed.com/archives/2010/11/is_this_what_your_new_downtown_target_will_look_like.php#target-2Changing the subject, I'm thinking about the fact that when the RC opens, 7th/Metro will be one of the busiest stations in the system, and the only one served by four lines (Red, Purple, Blue and Gold). We've talked about Metro possibly adding a north portal at 6th Street (City National Plaza). I'd also like to see a new south portal, in Macy's Plaza. I think this would benefit that shopping mall greatly, by bringing in potential customers through the building. And in return, the building could be marked with Metro signs as well, announcing the presence of the subway station. Any thoughts? This is definitely a good idea. In addition, the 2nd street station should have a portal in the middle of The Grand parcel (or inside the 3 story cube-ish building that'll go on it).
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 17, 2011 13:35:28 GMT -8
I don't see it happening. Maybe if there is some public/private partnership. Just seems like there are more pressing needs and while 7th/metro is the busiest station (still ahead of LAUS iinm) the entrances and exits aren't overly busy. It's mainly transfers. The current entrances could handle many times more boardings than they do now. That being said, doesn't the emergency exit at the south end of the blue line platform exit onto the sidewalk outside Macy's on Flower? Maybe there's some way to expand that and make it accessible?
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 17, 2011 14:12:14 GMT -8
Today, the LA Downtown News has an article entitled "Progress and Static on the Regional Connector". The following paragraphs, at the end of the article, specifically relate to the push by some to get Metro to reinstate the 5th/Flower station in the FEIR ( bold added by me): In proceeding with the $1.36 billion underground route, however, Metro was forced to scrap a proposed station at Fifth and Flower. Cutting that Financial District stop is expected to save the project about $185 million. Planners say the savings are crucial considering they expect to come up about $200 million short on the project’s budget after cobbling together local dollars, Measure R transit tax revenues and a major federal grant.
The board voted in October to nix the station from an upcoming environmental study because members said it made little sense to spend $2 million to examine a station that can’t be funded for construction.
Some Financial District stakeholders continue to protest the move and want the station re-inserted in the study. Those leaders, which include the Central City Association, are investigating whether it would actually cost the $2 million Metro said it would to examine the station.
The CCA and other station supporters are working on a funding plan that draws from public and private sources that would allow the agency to keep Fifth and Flower in the study, said Hilary Norton, vice chair of the CCA’s transportation committee. Norton is also executive director of Fixing Angelenos Stuck in Traffic, a mass transit advocacy group founded by Jim Thomas of Thomas Properties Group, which owns City National Plaza, a key office tower near the proposed station.
Norton said the group wants to keep Fifth and Flower in the study even if it means not building the stop until some time far in the future, after the rest of the project is completed. That would allow Metro to engineer the track and take on other infrastructure to facilitate future development.
Norton said the group hopes to present its plan to the board when it meets on Jan. 27. Securing support from Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa would be key to any plan to salvage the station, considering that Villaraigosa controls four votes on Metro’s board of directors. When the 13-member panel nixed the station in October, Villaraigosa was not present and his appointees abstained.
Metro plans to finish preliminary engineering work on the Regional Connector in early 2012. The schedule call for construction to begin in 2014, with completion by 2019.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 17, 2011 15:31:57 GMT -8
I don't think that anything like the Nikkei Center will occupy that property. Once the connector opens, what would make the most sense would be a hotel. It's rail adjacent, freeway close, near the center of Little Tokyo, and walking distance to many government offices. And it's in an area that needs better hotel choices. I'd almost be surprised to see anything else. I don't see why Little Tokyo would need another hotel. There's nothing wrong with either the Kyoto Grand or the Miyako. It would be much more valuable to the community to have a Nikkei Center-type mixed use development. == Moving on to the other conversation: I'm always in favor of more station entrances. More entrances means more opportunities for people wandering around downtown to realize that there is a subway station nearby. And it gives the subway system an extra destination. Rather than "down the street from", it can go directly to either 7+FIG or 555 Flower. The northbound expansion is probably more likely than heading south, but either one would be a huge improvement.
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Post by James Fujita on Feb 13, 2011 15:54:53 GMT -8
I don't know how we missed this, and I'm sorry I didn't notice it earlier. rafu.com/news/2011/02/metro-workshop-new-lt-station/Little Tokyo held a meeting on the new subway station. Ideas flew around, and it was good to read about people supporting a subway station, even if their ideas ranged from: - an open plaza to - small stands to - a bowling alley to - major development Everyone wanted several entrances, an idea I gladly endorse.
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 17, 2011 8:26:14 GMT -8
Back on Mar 4, Neal Broverman wrote a piece on LA.curbed.com regarding the contract to plan the Downtown Connector. Apparently AECOM has won it. He also noted that completion of the Connector is expected around 2019. e described the project as running "about two miles under downtown and create three or four new stations (the project is eligible for federal funds next year)." For the full text, look at la.curbed.com/archives/2011/03/aecom_will_design_downtowns_regional_connector_line.php.
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 17, 2011 8:38:42 GMT -8
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Post by Justin Walker on Apr 17, 2011 8:50:51 GMT -8
Back on Mar 4, Neal Broverman wrote a piece on LA.curbed.com regarding the contract to plan the Downtown Connector. Apparently AECOM has won it. The contract went to a joint venture of AECOM and Parsons Brinckerhoff.
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Post by James Fujita on Apr 17, 2011 15:21:45 GMT -8
I guess when it comes to transit projects, no new news is good news? The Times had a groan-worthy headline, but maybe just a transit nerd would appreciate it. The Times noted that Transit Team Rents Downtown Digs Near Subway (I added the bold emphasis). Oy. Anyways, all the Little Tokyo news I could find recently had to do with earthquake fundraisers. I love Little Tokyo's existing station, but I must admit, it is oriented towards North and East, rather than South or West, as I find when I tell Anime Expo fans how to get to Little Tokyo from the LACCC via subway I can't wait for the instructions to be "get on a northbound train at Pico"
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Post by carter on Apr 25, 2011 23:21:02 GMT -8
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Post by rubbertoe on May 29, 2011 9:22:48 GMT -8
t4gm (from the Crenshaw thread), What do you mean by "bus bridging Little Tokyo Station while the Regional Connector is constructed". If they build the LT station on the DC like they are considering, as a new subway stop that is totally apart from the current station, then why would a bus bridge be needed?
Unless I'm mistaken, they would build the DC, and the 3 current operating lines would all work as they currently do. When it comes time to "tie in" the DC connector to the current 3 lines, it should be relatively simple, and fairly quick. The Northbound tracks from 7th/Flower would have no impact on current operations, cause they represent new track that isn't currently in the system anyway. The new LT subway station would be completed, along with the underground wye, with the new tracks coming up on Alameda just East of the current LT station and parallel to the current tracks. To connect this end, wouldn't they just need to then activate a new "switch" that would then have the trains start using the new LT station and the DC?
RT
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Post by metrocenter on May 29, 2011 10:28:59 GMT -8
It won't be that simple. The tracks will come to the surface at two portals (one on Alameda and the other on First) right at the existing track. The tunnels themselves at this point will be built via cut-and-cover, meaning everything above the tunnels will need to be removed. Therefore, much of the existing track (and possibly the station) will have to be dismantled in order to build the RC.
As construction of new junctions goes, I would guess it will be much more complicated than the junction at Washington/Flower. Work on that junction has required months and months of bus bridges and single-track operations during construction.
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Post by Justin Walker on May 29, 2011 12:58:34 GMT -8
t4gm (from the Crenshaw thread), What do you mean by "bus bridging Little Tokyo Station while the Regional Connector is constructed". If they build the LT station on the DC like they are considering, as a new subway stop that is totally apart from the current station, then why would a bus bridge be needed? For the very latest info on how the Little Tokyo junction might be constructed, see this part of Brandon Farley's recent presentation to the Transit Coalition (at 24:17). He discusses how as the underground junction structure is constructed, Gold Line service could possibly be maintained via a temporary single-track trestle structure over the construction site. He also mentions that bus bridge might be necessary.
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Post by Transit Coalition on May 29, 2011 14:38:09 GMT -8
t4gm (from the Crenshaw thread), What do you mean by "bus bridging Little Tokyo Station while the Regional Connector is constructed". If they build the LT station on the DC like they are considering, as a new subway stop that is totally apart from the current station, then why would a bus bridge be needed? For the very latest info on how the Little Tokyo junction might be constructed, see this part of Brandon Farley's recent presentation to the Transit Coalition (at 24:17). He discusses how as the underground junction structure is constructed, Gold Line service could possibly be maintained via a temporary single-track trestle structure over the construction site. He also mentions that bus bridge might be necessary. I would like to take a minute and give a big shout out to Justin Walker and to Tony Waree. First, Justin, thank you for helping to explain how things are being developed from your massive amount of research. And Tony, for the creation and filming of an ongoing history of our monthly Transit Coalition meetings, which are posted on our website. We always get some of the best speakers, where you can attend and talk to them first hand, rather than speculation on how things are being done. We most probably have some of the most transparent transit operations anywhere in the world. It is just another reason why you should chip in and contribute to The Transit Coalition. Thank you everybody for all the great work you have done and the best over the coming year.
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Post by metrocenter on May 30, 2011 11:18:53 GMT -8
That video was very informative, thanks to Justin Walker and the Transit Coalition for the video.
As Mr. Farley confirmed, the best-case scenario would involve single-track operations, and if/when a full shutdown is needed, a bus bridge would be setup.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 30, 2011 13:00:27 GMT -8
That video was very informative, thanks to Justin Walker and the Transit Coalition for the video. As Mr. Farley confirmed, the best-case scenario would involve single-track operations, and if/when a full shutdown is needed, a bus bridge would be setup. Tony made the video. Justin only linked it. If it comes down to money - and it always does - then a bus bridge for a significant amount of time is what I expect. And I don't think days or weeks, it will be months. You can look at the blue line tie-in closures for a point of reference. My prediction is that early on there will be bus bridges on weekends for the better part of a couple of months and then when they get to the actual work that the Little Tokyo station will be closed completely for at least 6 months. Just a WAG, but it'll be interesting to see what happens. Edit. Or maybe not. But I guess if Little Tokyo is closed then the bus bridge will be for the entire east side of the line, not just Little Tokyo.
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Post by James Fujita on May 30, 2011 13:19:20 GMT -8
I hope they can get single-track operation of some sort at Little Tokyo.
If the whole station is shut down, then all the stations east of Little Tokyo would be cut off from the maintenance yard.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 30, 2011 13:30:34 GMT -8
I agree, but just look at all of the blue line closures for the Expo tie-in which is relatively simple by comparison. If it comes down to single tracking costing millions of dollars in additional expenses, then they will have to shut it down. Really much of the engineering work that seems so simple in our heads ends up being incredibly complicated in reality. And this already seems complicated. And none of this ever happens quickly. What we think might takes days takes weeks and what looks like weeks is months. This seems like months so by extension could be years.
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