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Post by spokker on Jul 28, 2009 20:49:54 GMT -8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hemN2KfJLw&feature=channel_pageRaw footage of some guy's web cam of a Critical Mass ride in San Francisco. On a Critical Mass web site participants decry the use of police force against lawful riders but admits there are bad apples. However, it appears that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who participated in this was a bad apple. Is this really advocacy? Please tell me there are bike advocacy groups that are much more sane than this. Why can't there be a bike ride where everybody stops on the red and goes on the green? How can anyone but an anarchist defend this?
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Post by Jason Saunders on Jul 28, 2009 21:36:07 GMT -8
Critical Mass is what is known as a "fun ride" It's a lot of fun for the people on the ride but not so much for the people stuck at the green light unable to move. Los Angeles has several of these regularly scheduled rides in which hundreds of people participate.
The reason they block the intersections (corking) is so that the group can stay together as a single group. If the light were to change mid group, and the second half was to wait as they should the pack would slowly disband into smaller and smaller packets. By corking the group stays together. You might say their benign lawlessness is a party of their mystique.
It's not a race as the youtube title says either. The riders aren't going very fast and it's not competitive. It's more a mobile party then a race.
I wouldn't call them advocates either. Organizations like the Los Angeles County Bicycle Coalition (LACBC) are legitimate bicycle advocates who advocate for bicycle lockers, lanes, sharrows, fair law and funding. However, say what you will about Critical Mass and other bicycle fun groups these rides are responsible for a lot of people getting into bicycling which on it's own isn't a bad thing.
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Post by spokker on Jul 28, 2009 21:41:35 GMT -8
So if I want to start a Nissan car club can I run reds and block intersections and do doughnuts in the middle of the intersection? What about the hoopin' and hollarin' that is sure to be intimidating to any reasonable person and create an unsafe situation.
Notice that bus had to slam on its brakes and it had a green.
Why do they have to be in a pack? When Los Angeles becomes a utopian bicycle city of the future is every cyclist going to go to work together?
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Post by Jason Saunders on Jul 28, 2009 21:47:03 GMT -8
Most cyclist who commute and ride regularly do not participate in these rides.
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Post by spokker on Jul 28, 2009 23:34:33 GMT -8
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Post by kenalpern on Jul 29, 2009 5:33:43 GMT -8
Anyone that blocks the law deserves a ticket, and if needed, an arrest. I have and will do more to promote bicycle riding than most--but I'll be darned if I allow anyone to break the law. If anyone sees this, then they should call the police.
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Post by spokker on Jul 29, 2009 11:03:56 GMT -8
It seems that with so many riders, police don't know what to do. I often see them following the pack on these rides just trying to contain it so it doesn't get worse.
You often hear these guys complain on their silly little web sites about how some pig arrested them "for riding my bike!" No, I'm pretty sure you got arrested for a good reason.
The mobs use high profile incidents against cyclists to further enrage the pack and justify their intimidation tactics. That some careless driver ran over a cyclist is tragic, but it doesn't mean you start a jihad on all drivers, who are just trying to drive as safe as possible.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Jul 29, 2009 18:56:11 GMT -8
A lot of cyclists feel self righteous because they utilize a mode of transportation that doesn't pollute, doesn't contribute to the oil economy (oil wars), doesn't contribute to traffic and is very healthy even when you consider the affects of smog. These daily cyclist obey the rules of the road and want to be respected as legitimate vehicles on the road by automobile drivers. Her complaint was that many of the cyclist on these rides do not ride their bikes regularly. Usually these people are automobile drivers. They show up once a month or on a Friday at a large group ride and proceed to disrespect other automobile drivers by blocking traffic and disregarding traffic signals. Her fear is that on Monday when the mass is all gone (presumably back to their cars) she's out there alone on her bike, associated by automobile drivers as one of the disrespectful cyclists from the group ride. She then has to deal with their road rage alone and vulnerable. This is how she claims she broke her foot; Run off the road by an angry driver after a previous CM. I've heard her complaint from other regular cyclists as well. My confession is that years ago I participated in these rides but I stopped because they grew too large and unwieldy. At one time they were composed of small groups of cyclists who actually obeyed the rules of the road and only occupied one lane of traffic but as the rides grew in popularity so to did the problems you see in these videos. When I saw this happening I ceased attending these large rides but from time to time I still go on smaller discreet group rides that obey traffic laws. They can be a lot of fun. I've been thinking about organizing a small group bicycle ride to ride the length of the Expo alignment. (one that obeys the rules of course)
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Post by spokker on Jul 29, 2009 19:23:45 GMT -8
I have empathy for the girl in the video and I would gladly join you on your safe and sane bike ride.
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Post by James Fujita on Jul 31, 2009 13:14:09 GMT -8
in many ways, I think bicycle activists can be their own worst enemy.
nobody wants to listen to a bunch of obnoxious, smug, self-righteous Jihadists on two wheels, even if they might have a point. I'm looking at these videos and thinking, why would I ever want to support them or their cause? these guys are like the BRU... only they're the Bike Riders Union.
there's a lesson to be learned here for rail transit advocates... don't be them.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Aug 1, 2009 12:18:31 GMT -8
in many ways, I think bicycle activists can be their own worst enemy. nobody wants to listen to a bunch of obnoxious, smug, self-righteous Jihadists on two wheels, even if they might have a point. I'm looking at these videos and thinking, why would I ever want to support them or their cause? these guys are like the BRU... only they're the Bike Riders Union. there's a lesson to be learned here for rail transit advocates... don't be them. Why do you lump all bicycle advocates in with these people?
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Post by James Fujita on Aug 1, 2009 19:16:59 GMT -8
in many ways, I think bicycle activists can be their own worst enemy. nobody wants to listen to a bunch of obnoxious, smug, self-righteous Jihadists on two wheels, even if they might have a point. I'm looking at these videos and thinking, why would I ever want to support them or their cause? these guys are like the BRU... only they're the Bike Riders Union. there's a lesson to be learned here for rail transit advocates... don't be them. Why do you lump all bicycle advocates in with these people? sorry. of course I know that not all bicycle advocates are obnoxious, smug, self-righteous Jihadists on two wheels. my basic point still stands. unfortunately, the obnoxious ones are quite often the loudest (indeed, you could argue that loud and obnoxious go together), and the loudest naturally draw the most attention. however, being obnoxious will more than likely turn off possible supporters rather than draw them to your cause, which is something that rail transit fans need to keep in mind as well.
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Post by dasubergeek on Aug 3, 2009 9:01:07 GMT -8
in many ways, I think bicycle activists can be their own worst enemy. nobody wants to listen to a bunch of obnoxious, smug, self-righteous Jihadists on two wheels, even if they might have a point. I'm looking at these videos and thinking, why would I ever want to support them or their cause? these guys are like the BRU... only they're the Bike Riders Union. there's a lesson to be learned here for rail transit advocates... don't be them. I would like to point out that this is exactly what the more-freeways-now people think of rail advocates, minus the two-wheels item. I dislike Critical Mass. I have disliked them since they tried to run me and my infant daughter (as a pedestrian and stroller) down as we tried to cross Calabasas Rd. one Sunday morning on the way to the farmers' market a few years ago, pumping their fists and shouting about "it's our right". I think, not to put too fine a point on it, that if the Critical Mass people would just be on a normal ride, down the right side of the road, in a very long line, obeying laws, they would make just as impactful a statement and engender a whole lot less ill-will. Five hundred bicycles are hard to ignore even if they all obey the law, with no need for the tiny-schlong antics in the video above or in the Calabasas demonstration that soured me on CM and nearly soured me on bicycling. However, I am a bicycle commuter, I am not particularly smug about it, I am certainly not a Jihadist, and I don't like being lumped in with the militant bicycle cartel. I'm the guy who commutes in regular shorts and a t-shirt, with a backpack on my back. I choose a way to work that lengthens my 3.75 mile car commute to 5.5 miles, so that I'm on SART (the Santa Ana River Trail class-1 bike path) and don't have to fence with OCTA buses or people who are more interested in looking for Starbucks than for bikes. I don't normally bike on Ball Road or Katella or State College, because while I want to share the road, I'm also not stupid. I'm an advocate in that when I hear people railing against bicycles on the road, I talk about it to them. Usually after realising they know someone who bikes to work, they try to do better. Advocacy one person at a time is still advocacy, even if it isn't the (utterly misguided and annoying as Hell) Critical Mass-style actions. Because I'm not some extreme "BIKE RIGHTS NOOOOOW" screamer, just a regular guy on a normal bike, I seem to inspire people to try biking to work. If the fat guy can do it, I can do it, is the usual thought I see flitting around. This, too, is advocacy. I'm certainly not perfect -- the last time someone opened a door in my way, I grabbed the door as I went past and bent it past the hinge stops. But usually when someone shouts or honks, I just wave and call out, "Hey Eddie!" which usually confuses them. I do have the right to be on the road, and I refuse to fling myself into the gutter so that a car can get to its destination three seconds quicker. If you see an ice cream truck dawdling along in the right lane, or a catering truck, or a bus, you move left and pass -- you should do the same for a bicycle. Saying so is advocacy. Saying so politely is better advocacy. OCTA have a very ambitious bike plan, which is very nice, and they are actually doing things about it besides putting up those useless "bike route" signs (hello, Riverside, are you listening?). Sharrows -- which are in-lane paintings of bicycles with arrows ahead, intended to inform drivers that the right lane is to be shared -- are a great idea and very cheap to implement. Urban Repair Squads (another group of people with a good goal and a terrible M.O.) all over the country have painted sharrows. Sharrows work better than little green signs. In the meantime, we the normal bicyclists have to deal with being tarred with the same brush as the Critical Mass morons, the same way transit advocates have to deal with the BRU, the Christians have to deal with the Moral Majority-type fundamentalists, the Democrats have to deal with the quasi-socialists in their ranks, and any group of like-minded people anywhere have to bear the burden of the small but very loud extremes. Edited for grammar.
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Post by kenalpern on Aug 3, 2009 11:25:44 GMT -8
I certainly agree that Critical Mass is their own worse enemy, and that they are to bicyclists as the BRU is for mass transit in that ordinary folks have to overcome their distracting and negative gestures in order to promote a calm, gentle and effective series of solutions to what is probably an eminently-fixable problem.
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Post by spokker on Aug 3, 2009 20:40:07 GMT -8
I would like to point out that this is exactly what the more-freeways-now people think of rail advocates, minus the two-wheels item. I'll give you smug, but not Jihadist. The most annoying rail advocates are sitting there with their radio or whatever trying to listen in on railroad operations. Lame, but not really chaotic. Good, because pretty soon they won't have many buses for people to ride on.
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Post by dasubergeek on Aug 4, 2009 9:58:30 GMT -8
I would like to point out that this is exactly what the more-freeways-now people think of rail advocates, minus the two-wheels item. I'll give you smug, but not Jihadist. The most annoying rail advocates are sitting there with their radio or whatever trying to listen in on railroad operations. Lame, but not really chaotic. Ever been to Berkeley on the second Friday of each month, where the pro-transit people roll out roadblocks and block Shattuck and University to make it as hard as possible for cars to get round? Extreme? Of course... but because extremism makes such great news stories, they get a bigger microphone than people with one foot firmly planted on the ground. Fear! Uncertainty! Doubt! Panic! There is a lot of budget pain at OCTA. When tax revenues go back up -- and they will -- life will get easier for the OCTA bus system. Metro would slash bus service too if the BRU weren't sitting there with a pre-filled lawsuit waiting to be filed. The powers that be at OCTA simply haven't got this problem. This financial pain is temporary and is one of the risks of having a large transportation system whose budget is not zero-sum. I'm not suggesting it SHOULD be zero-sum, incidentally -- that's ridiculous and would result in shockingly high fares -- but it does mean that when the public financing entity (the county) is in financial dire straits, so too is the transportation system.
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Post by spokker on Aug 4, 2009 14:50:53 GMT -8
Fear! Uncertainty! Doubt! Panic! Well, that's what happens when you devote an entire section of your web site to your impending financial collapse.
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Post by billcousert on Aug 5, 2009 16:19:56 GMT -8
There is a lot of budget pain at OCTA. When tax revenues go back up -- and they will -- life will get easier for the OCTA bus system. Sure, maybe in another 50 years. The state is in so much debt that I think it will take nearly that long to pay it off. Assuming of course that we don't have any other major disasters between now and then....
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