Culver City Station Name

[metrocenter]

Nov 21, 2009 15:30:49 GMT -8 jeisenbe said:

Renaming the Long Beach stations:
"Willow" is okay for now, but "Wrigley" would be better; this is the historic name of the district to the west of Long Beach Blvd.

This example illustrates why you can't use a one-size-fits-all strategy for names.

The first problem with this: Willow Station is on the border between Wrigley and Signal Hill: so Signal Hill has just as much claim on Willow Station's name as Wrigley has.

Another problem: Wrigley is served not just by Willow Station, but also Wardlow station at its top, and PCH station at its bottom.

So I will amend my position on naming: neighborhood names should be used whenever possible, if the name is clear and unambiguous, and has local support.

"Wardlow" is unambiguous because there will never be another Wardlow station on the Blue Line or any other line. Same with "Willow". These names uniquely identify the stations within the system.

"PCH" is another story. PCH runs the length of the county. So, at the very least, I would name it "PCH/Long Beach". And if there is a better name that reflects the surrounding communities, then the station could be given that name.

Getting back to the forum topic, I'm fine with "Culver Junction" if the neighborhood calls itself that. I'm interested what locals have to say, given the list of names that were offered in that presentation.

[James Fujita]

Regarding station names in general, I think it depends on the situation. We shouldn't automatically assume landmarks for every station. Each station is going to be different and some neighborhoods and landmarks are more easily identifiable than others.

For example, "Little Tokyo" and "Chinatown" are easy to identify, while I would argue that "King Taco" would be less recognizable, unless you're familiar with the neighborhood, and I do think that station names should be readily understandable to both locals and outsiders.

In some cases, the intersection would be a better option. Heck, "Hollywood and Vine" is both an intersection and a landmark. If a neighborhood lacks a universally-recognized landmark, then I would go with the cross streets.

In some cases, you are going to end up with more than one station in a neighborhood. Koreatown is a huge, if somewhat disorganized, neighborhood and both of the Purple Line stub stations are in there.

(Personally, I think installing local maps and directional signs would be more important than the station name. But that's a whole different topic.)

I also think that the local residents deserve a huge role in deciding the name, although that can also be troublesome if there's a local quarrel over what the name should be.

Which brings us to Culver Junction. There very well could be more than one station in Culver City (perhaps a Green Line station?), so I do think calling it Culver City would be too vague. If local residents or businesses call the place Culver Junction, then I'd think Culver Junction would work.

[wad]

Nov 26, 2009 12:06:12 GMT -8 James Fujita said:

while I would argue that "King Taco" would be less recognizable

And it's a growing chain.

The Blue Line San Pedro and Gold Line Memorial Park stations also have King Taco.

[jeisenbe]

Blue Line PCH station has a King Taco about a block north. It also has El Gallo Giro right at the station. Recommended if you are in the area.

I agree that Cambodia Town does not currently extend to Long Beach Blvd (it officially ends at Alamitos Ave). Long Beach really needs to name its neighborhoods!

[wad]

Nov 30, 2009 11:43:49 GMT -8 jeisenbe said:

Blue Line PCH station has a King Taco about a block north. It also has El Gallo Giro right at the station. Recommended if you are in the area.

The King Taco moved back to PCH and Long Beach. It had occupied the present El Gallo Giro location until it moved out around 2000 or 2001.

Long Beach really needs to name its neighborhoods!

It does. There's Willmore City, California Heights, Bluff Park, Belmont Heights, Belmont Shore, Naples Island, Bixby Knolls, North Long Beach, West Long Beach, and some others I may have left off.

[jeisenbe]

Wad, it is true that Long Beach has many historic neighborhoods with well-recognized names. However, is also has large areas that only have a general name ("East Long Beach", "North Long Beach") or no name at all (What do you call the area between 10th, Walnut, Cherry and 7th?). Compare this to Los Angeles, which has a neighborhood name for every area (even if there is some debate), or San Francisco or San Diego, which have detailed maps. Many of my patients and my friends refer to their address by the nearaest major cross street alone.

Long Beach Map: (Historic districts only: www.longbeach.gov/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=5346
I found this map for the neighborhoods next to the LA River only: www.longbeach.gov/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=15643
When I first moved here I found another map on the city site than labeled some neighborhoods, but had many gaps. Now I can't find it. Most of the Google search results are for Real Estate sites with poorly done maps which lump large areas together, even in the old, walkable parts of town.

Compare with:
San Diego Map: www.sandiego.gov/neighborhoodmaps/
San Francisco Neighborhoods: www.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/sf/12-12-ork.jpg
Sacramento (similar population and more suburban): maps.cityofsacramento.org/pdf/neighborhoods-2008-nolocal%20streetsE.pdf

[metrocenter]

Dec 1, 2009 4:39:03 GMT -8 wad said:

Long Beach really needs to name its neighborhoods!

It does. There's Willmore City, California Heights, Bluff Park, Belmont Heights, Belmont Shore, Naples Island, Bixby Knolls, North Long Beach, West Long Beach, and some others I may have left off.

California Heights is my neck of the Long Beach woods.

There's also Wrigley, Los Altos, Arts District, Zaferia, etc. We actually have quite a few named neighborhoods in Long Beach.

[metrocenter]

The Los Angeles effort to name neighborhoods is fantastic, but relatively recent. It was a response to the L.A. riots, before which, as an example, everything south of Washington Blvd. was known as "South Central L.A.". It was recognized that gangs, as bad as they were, did provide some demarcation and a sense of community pride, even if ultimately that pride was misplaced in illegal activity.

Certainly many of the names that L.A. assigned to neighborhoods were artificial and non-historical. Even artificial names function to give a sense of place to the residents of those neighborhoods.

[jeisenbe]

Does anyone actually know "Zaferia"? I have seen the stop on the old Pacific Electric Maps, and there is a small street called "Old Zaferia Way" along the old ROW, but I have never seen a real estate or apartment rental listing for a Zaferia home. Even Wrigley and Wilmore and Rose Park get mentioned in rental listings. At least the realtors don't seem to know about Zaferia.

[wad]

Dec 7, 2009 23:34:36 GMT -8 jeisenbe said:

Does anyone actually know "Zaferia"? I have seen the stop on the old Pacific Electric Maps, and there is a small street called "Old Zaferia Way" along the old ROW, but I have never seen a real estate or apartment rental listing for a Zaferia home. Even Wrigley and Wilmore and Rose Park get mentioned in rental listings. At least the realtors don't seem to know about Zaferia.

There's a Plaza Zaferia patch of lawn at Redondo Avenue and Pacific Coast Highway. It looks like those triangles where streetcars used to turn around.

[metrocenter]

I have a friend who lives on Redondo near PCH. She calls it Zaferia, and she's not a transit/urban history nerd like me. I have no idea whether or not the name is widespread.

I'll bet the real estate people would call it "Arts District Adjacent". LOL

[jeisenbe]

"I'll bet the real estate people would call it "Arts District Adjacent"

Exactly! Or else "Close to CSULB, Belmont Shore, Downtown, the Blue Line..."

San Diego reinforces neighborhoods by putting up great-looking signs arching over main commercial streets. It seems to be working; the NY Times had the North Park neighborhood sign as the main picture on the website a couple of days ago, from an article focusing on that neighborhood in particular (!) in the travel section. I used to live on the edge of North Park. Normal Heights, University Heights, and Hillcrest all had signs over the street, as well.

Long Beach already notes historic districts on small street corner signs (such as Belmont Heights, Rose Park, Alamitos Beach); perhaps we could extend it to other neighborhoods, such as Zaferia. That area could use some community pride.

Getting more off topic but back to transit, my wife and I really wish the buses on Anaheim or 4th street continued farther east to CSULB. Currently, the only direct buses to campus are from PCH (but only every 30 min), 7th street (every 10 to 12 minutes), and Ocean Blvd (Every 20 min, but slow due to a circuitious route). Buses on Broadway turn north to allow an untimed transfer, and the buses on Anaheim and 4th just stop around PCH and Colorado lagoon, respectively. This significantly limits options for CSULB staff and students who might want to live near those streets, which are a little too far of a walk to 7th. LBTransit almost had the 4th street bus run thru to campus, but NIMBY opposition near Colorado Lagoon killed it, abetted by a limited budget. Now we are stuck living north of 3rd street and south of 11th, more or less, if we want good transit service to CSULB.

[pithecanthropus]

I think a single street name works better than "intersection" names like Venice/Robertson. They could just call it "Robertson", unless there's any possibility of another Robertson on the Purple Line.

[James Fujita]

Oct 10, 2010 20:31:12 GMT -8 pithecanthropus said:

I think a single street name works better than "intersection" names like Venice/Robertson. They could just call it "Robertson", unless there's any possibility of another Robertson on the Purple Line.

Well, Robertson starts at Exposition and it heads north to West Hollywood, near the Pacific Design Center. (I Googled it just to make sure).

I don't believe that another Robertson station is planned anywhere, although I suppose it's always possible.

On the bigger issue of "single name" vs. intersection name, I still think that intersections work better than single street stations, especially if there might be more than one station, or confusion between two stations.

Of course, the best is always a well recognized neighborhood name.

[K 22]

My vote goes to "Culver Junction".

Speaking of which - is there any artist renderings or designs for what this station is going to look like lying around anywhere?

[tobias087]

I would be quite pleased with either Culver City or Venice/Robertson, which has a nice ring to it. What I am hoping though, is that they won't put "Exposition/_____" in every other station on the Expo line. It's one thing if there are only a few stations along that street, like the Red line on Vermont, but if it's almost every single one, including it in the names seems silly. Nobody puts "I-105" in when they're talking about the Green Line stations: if you say the Green Line and the street name, then it's pretty obvious that the freeway is nearby.

[Gokhan]

I agree that Culver Junction will be the most appropriate name for this station.

While currently not many people are aware of this name, it's the correct historical and present name for this area and makes reference to Culver City without incorrectly referring to Downtown Culver City. Just as the Sunset Junction (Sunset and Santa Monica Boulevards) is a very popular and well-known neighborhood, this neighborhood will also develop into a popular and well-known neighborhood once the station opens and will be called accurately and distinctly, not to be confused with other parts of Culver City.

Design renderings are hard to find for this as it was completed well after the rest of Phase 1 design.

[bobdavis]

I notice that "Culver Junction" is in the lead; that's the Pacific Electric name for this location. I remember visiting there back in the 60's or 70's and finding a crew switching with an SW-1*. The conductor gave me a handful of fusees (like highway flares) and said, "You never can tell, these might come in handy."

*SW-1, a 600 hp EMD switcher built in the late 30's-early 40's. Orange Empire is currently restoring one of these.

[bzcat]

This kind of issue really gets me hot and bothered with Metro... Most of the rail riders I know prefer neighborhood or landmark station name. I always refer to the Pico station as the Staples Center or Southpark station. 7th Fig is just Metrocenter. The Gold line stops at Old Town Pasadena (well, 1 block away...), and Wilshire/Western is Koreatown. And most people also intuitively know that color names for rail lines doesn't tell you anything about where the train goes but if you call it Wilshire line, they know it runs on Wilshire. But has Metro ever listened to the users and taken our advise? No... they are going the other way, preparing us for the idiotic "Aqua" line with more "Exposition/random street name" nonsense.

It's this kind of pointless bureaucratic inertia that really drives me crazy. The Expo line presents an excellent opportunity to introduce this change in naming scheme but Metro is blowing it by insisting on uniformity with a clearly inferior system.

[metrocenter]

I have to admit, I don't like "Culver Junction". But it's better than "Culver City", because frankly it's not in Culver City, but rather, Los Angeles.

There are four stations that could legitimately claim the name "Koreatown": for that reason alone, I would keep those stations as intersection names.

The difficulty with naming stations after just the cross street is it leads to names that are not globally unique in the Metro Rail system. For instance, Vermont/Expo station. You could call it simply "Vermont", but that is only clear and unambiguous in the context of the Expo Line. In the Metro system there are at least five other stations on Vermont Avenue (including four Red Line stations and a Green Line station). Same goes for Crenshaw (Green Line) and Western (Red Line).

Now we have the issue with Santa Monica wanting to call its station at 26th Street "Memorial Park". The system already has a "Memorial Park" station (in Pasadena).

[Gokhan]

Oct 11, 2010 17:36:02 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

I have to admit, I don't like "Culver Junction". But it's better than "Culver City", because frankly it's not in Culver City, but rather, Los Angeles.

Well, you are in the minority.

Moreover, you are quite wrong about the location. The Culver Junction Station is precisely within the city limits of Culver City. The narrow commercial strip south of Venice Boulevard belongs to Los Angeles, but south of that is Culver City.

Reference: zimas.lacity.org/

[metrocenter]

Oct 11, 2010 21:25:09 GMT -8 Gokhan said:

Oct 11, 2010 17:36:02 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

I have to admit, I don't like "Culver Junction". But it's better than "Culver City", because frankly it's not in Culver City, but rather, Los Angeles.

Well, you are in the minority.

Well majority is 50%+1. Failing to achieve that (with 13/26, a mere plurality) means you are in the minority as well.

Moreover, 26 transit advocates voting in this poll is hardly a representative sampling, even of transit advocates. I'm just guessing, but of Southern Californians, I would bet most have heard of "Culver City", and probably less than 5% have heard of "Culver Junction".

Oct 11, 2010 21:25:09 GMT -8 Gokhan said:

Moreover, you are quite wrong about the location. The Culver Junction Station is precisely within the city limits of Culver City. The narrow commercial strip south of Venice Boulevard belongs to Los Angeles, but south of that is Culver City.

Reference: zimas.lacity.org/

Yeah, Venice/Robertson is in L.A., but the station is in Culver City. So I vote for "Culver City".

[K 22]

Oct 11, 2010 17:36:02 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

I have to admit, I don't like "Culver Junction". But it's better than "Culver City", because frankly it's not in Culver City, but rather, Los Angeles.

There are four stations that could legitimately claim the name "Koreatown": for that reason alone, I would keep those stations as intersection names.

The difficulty with naming stations after just the cross street is it leads to names that are not globally unique in the Metro Rail system. For instance, Vermont/Expo station. You could call it simply "Vermont", but that is only clear and unambiguous in the context of the Expo Line. In the Metro system there are at least five other stations on Vermont Avenue (including four Red Line stations and a Green Line station). Same goes for Crenshaw (Green Line) and Western (Red Line).

Now we have the issue with Santa Monica wanting to call its station at 26th Street "Memorial Park". The system already has a "Memorial Park" station (in Pasadena).

Isn't the 26th Street station "Bergamot"? I thought 17th Street was "Memorial Park".

Anyhow they could always say "Santa Monica Memorial Park" even though that's long.

I'm also not a big fan of the cross street naming convention unless a line isn't following a street for too long (i/e the Red Line). Like the Purple Line after Vermont - the only stop that won't be on Wilshire is Century City. I don't think dropping the "Wilshire" section in the station name would hurt anything since it probably should be hammered home that "Purple = Wilshire". So you'd simply have "Normandie", "Western", "La Brea", "Fairfax", etc.

[metrocenter]

Oct 12, 2010 6:39:26 GMT -8 K 22 said:

Isn't the 26th Street station "Bergamot"? I thought 17th Street was "Memorial Park".

You're right, my mistake.

[Gokhan]

Oct 11, 2010 22:04:52 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

Well majority is 50%+1.

50% + 1 = 0.5 + 1 = 1.5 = 150% -- a mathematical absurdity in this context.

Yeah, Venice/Robertson is in L.A., but the station is in Culver City. So I vote for "Culver City".

It's good that you've now learned the real location of the station (Culver City, not Los Angeles).

[metrocenter]

Har har.

[Alexis Kasperavičius]

FYI, My 2010 Audi navigation system shows "Culver Junction" with a dot right where the station is going. It also lists the La Cienega station as "Sentous," but that's for another poll.

AK

[bobdavis]

Mr. AK, was your Audi programmed by an old-timer from LA? Sentous was a yard on the PE Santa Monica Air Line west of La Brea. I looked up Sentous St. in the Thomas Guide and the only one listed is out in the Walnut area, east of City of Industry Yard.

[matthewb]

It seems Audi bought a half century old map for their navigation system :-)

[Gokhan]

Latest Expo official station names, from the new hardcopy Expo brochure I got last week at the Palms meeting:

7th St/Metro Ctr
Pico
23rd St
Jefferson/USC
Expo Park/USC
Expo/Vermont
Expo/Western
Expo/Crenshaw (P)
Farmdale
Expo/La Brea
La Cienega/Jefferson (P)
Venice/Robertson (P)
National/Palms
Expo/Westwood (P)
Expo/Sepulveda (P)
Expo/Bundy (P)
Olympic/26th St
Colorado/17th St (P)
Colorado/4th St

(P) Parking