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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 18, 2012 17:32:27 GMT -8
Very interesting blue line numbers. Usually, older lines see the smallest changes since theyre so established... Expo effect? Maybe due to higher frequencies downtown? Whats the silver line up to? ANyone know if there were ever any stated goals for it? Edit: Now that I think about it, it might be the late night service helping. Lots of service workers use the blue line, and those jobs get out late. I've noticed about 20% of the Expo Line patrons de-board at Pico station to transfer to the Blue Line. I think the Expo Line has made accessing the southwestern part of LA more convenient to those who lived along the Blue Line route and vice versa. |
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Post by TransportationZ on Sept 18, 2012 17:57:14 GMT -8
Very interesting blue line numbers. Usually, older lines see the smallest changes since theyre so established... Expo effect? Maybe due to higher frequencies downtown? Whats the silver line up to? ANyone know if there were ever any stated goals for it? Edit: Now that I think about it, it might be the late night service helping. Lots of service workers use the blue line, and those jobs get out late. I've noticed about 20% of the Expo Line patrons de-board at Pico station to transfer to the Blue Line. I think the Expo Line has made accessing the southwestern part of LA more convenient to those who lived along the Blue Line route and vice versa. Completely agree. We can't forget that atleast some of these new 20k riders on the Expo Line touch blue line numbers, since these two lines are intertwined, after all. With all this increasing ridership, once the Regional connector opens it's going to be a whole new ball game. We may see Metro actually look into grade seperating the blue/expo line on flower.(I think Washington Bl should be fine with it's signal preemptions, so that segment is not as limited in terms of capacity) The flower grade separation should have happened before the connector though, as any delay or closure on the connector is going to be catastrophic. |
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Post by rubbertoe on Sept 18, 2012 18:15:58 GMT -8
At some point in time the ridership is going to get so high that the percentage of money spent on road vs rail will start being looked at. This probably isn't possible with current measure R expenditures (80/20?). But I wouldn't be surprised to see a Measure R2 in about 5-6 years that adjusts that 80% road level down to something lower. Then we are talking about some real money  And as we are seeing right now with the Gold Line since the EE opened, as the system expands, ridership growth not only continues but accelerates. That regional connector cannot possibly get finished soon enough. I have asked this before, but I wonder why construction can't be done 24/7, or a good portion of that. Maybe the TBM work is already planned for 24/7, if not then it should be. I don't imagine that it would interfere with any normal activity. The additional shift differential couldn't be that much in this economy. RT |
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Post by rubbertoe on Oct 16, 2012 11:46:43 GMT -8
September data is up:   And the larger links: i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/RubberToe420/Combined09-12OriginalLarge.jpgi882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/RubberToe420/Combined09-12NewLarge.jpgThe September light rail numbers are all up and we have once again hit the jackpot. All 7 lines that I track (Red, Blue, Green, Gold, Orange, Silver, Expo) were up YOY, not counting Expo. And 4 of the 7 hit all time highs (Blue, Orange, Silver, Expo). The combined September light rail ridership stands at 201,156 up 35,002 YOY or 21.07%. Blue is up 8,735 YOY (10.48%) to 92,120, Green is up 1,562 YOY (3.48%) to 46,393, Gold is up 4,049 YOY (10.67%) to 41,987, and Expo clocks in with a September total of 20,656. Of particular note, the Blue Line hit an all time high of 92,120. And the Expo line is now above the 20,000 level. The Orange Line demolished the previous high of 27,987 back from September of 2008 by hitting 31,787  We new stand at 35 consecutive months of YOY light rail ridership gains. And here finally are the GLEE specific totals... Nov-10: +4,643 Dec-10: +2,183 Jan-11: +5,720 Feb-11: +3,317 Mar-11: +3,000 Apr-11: +6,170 May-11: +4,189 Jun-11: +1,842 Jul-11: +8,615 Aug-11: +4,351 Sep-11: +2,289 Oct-11: +2,344 Nov-11: +4,722 Dec-11: +8,856 Jan-12: +7,182 Feb-12: +7,318 Mar-12: +8,592 Apr-12: +3,685 May-12: +6,991 Jun-12: +7,913 Jul-12: +2,794 Aug-12: +2,527 Sep-12: +4,094 RT P.S. Red is up 2%, Orange up 18%, Silver up 17%. |
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Post by carter on Oct 16, 2012 20:41:41 GMT -8
At some point in time the ridership is going to get so high that the percentage of money spent on road vs rail will start being looked at. This probably isn't possible with current measure R expenditures (80/20?). But I wouldn't be surprised to see a Measure R2 in about 5-6 years that adjusts that 80% road level down to something lower. Then we are talking about some real money And as we are seeing right now with the Gold Line since the EE opened, as the system expands, ridership growth not only continues but accelerates. That regional connector cannot possibly get finished soon enough. I have asked this before, but I wonder why construction can't be done 24/7, or a good portion of that. Maybe the TBM work is already planned for 24/7, if not then it should be. I don't imagine that it would interfere with any normal activity. The additional shift differential couldn't be that much in this economy. RT Paying all those workers overtime would be crazy expensive. |
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Post by rubbertoe on Nov 15, 2012 9:40:33 GMT -8
October data is up:   And the larger versions: i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/RubberToe420/Combined10-12OriginalLarge.jpgi882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/RubberToe420/Combined10-12NewLarge.jpgOctober is another record month for light rail ridership. All 7 tracked lines have YOY higher levels. The Blue Line, Expo Line, Orange Line (bus) and Silver Line (bus) had all time highs. The combined October light rail ridership stands at 203,296 which is up 45,964 YOY or 29.21%. Of that, 21,382 is due to the Expo Line which wasn't running last year at this time. Blue is up 15,215 YOY (19.57%) to 92,935 which is an all time high. Green is up 3,734 YOY (8.72%) to 46,544. And the Gold Line is up 5,633 YOY (15.31%) to 42,417. Expo ticks up again to a new high of 21,382. The Blue Line has now been above the 90,000 level for 3 consecutive months. Prior to these 3 months it only hit 90,000 one other time. Probably the most distinctive trend being seen right now would be that normally from the July to October months, the ridership generally goes down. This year, it is holding up very well, especially the Blue and Red Lines. RT P.S. The Red Line is up 8% YOY, Silver up 23% YOY and Orange up 20% YOY to it's all time high of 32,069. |
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Post by TransportationZ on Nov 15, 2012 11:01:37 GMT -8
The Expo Line really gave the Blue Line a boost.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 15, 2012 13:40:47 GMT -8
It looks like we're slowly crawling toward the No. 1 spot in the nation for light-rail ridership.
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Post by TransportationZ on Nov 15, 2012 14:26:13 GMT -8
Only 60,000 to go to beat Boston. A fully realized Expo Line to Santa Monica, Crenshaw Line, Downtown Connector, and foothill extension could easily push us to the top spot. If only the Orange Line was light rail.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 15, 2012 15:17:26 GMT -8
It's true that Boston is expanding their system as well but I think LA will still beat it in the future, given the baby nature of our system. When new people move to LA, they will no longer see the city as the city of cars.
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Post by matthewb on Nov 16, 2012 7:01:00 GMT -8
LA will definitely beat Boston for light rail, but I'm more curious about overall system ridership. There, I think LA is a bit further behind in nationwide rankings.
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Post by joemagruder on Nov 16, 2012 10:59:05 GMT -8
I have this vague memory that in the late 1950s the daily ridership on LATL's P line was 10,000, which was considered high. I wonder how current ridership compares with that of the LARy and PE at their primes.
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Post by TransportationZ on Nov 16, 2012 13:22:30 GMT -8
LA will definitely beat Boston for light rail, but I'm more curious about overall system ridership. There, I think LA is a bit further behind in nationwide rankings. Well, of course. The cities with large metro full HRT metro systems in the Northeast will always take the top spots. There's no chance in hell ANY city will beat NYC, which literally moves SEVERAL MILLION people per day. Just like Amtrak's Pacific surfliner, LA will have the highest ridership outside of the Northeast/Chicago. |
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Post by Elson on Nov 16, 2012 14:39:48 GMT -8
According to the EIR, the extension is supposed to have 16,000 boardings by 2020. So it's not doing too badly. Does that finding include the connection to the Expo Line once the regional connector is completed? Once the Regional Connector is finished, the Blue and Gold lines will have totally different ridership figures. |
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Post by masonite on Nov 16, 2012 15:11:27 GMT -8
LA will definitely beat Boston for light rail, but I'm more curious about overall system ridership. There, I think LA is a bit further behind in nationwide rankings. Yes, we are quite a bit behind NYC, Washington, Boston, Chicago, SF, and Philly for combined ridership. In 10-15 years, we might have a shot at passing SF or Philly, but not the others. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 16, 2012 16:15:14 GMT -8
LA will definitely beat Boston for light rail, but I'm more curious about overall system ridership. There, I think LA is a bit further behind in nationwide rankings. Yes, we are quite a bit behind NYC, Washington, Boston, Chicago, SF, and Philly for combined ridership. In 10-15 years, we might have a shot at passing SF or Philly, but not the others. I'd say that we have an excellent chance at catching Philadelphia and SF, and an outside chance at matching what Chicago and Boston are today. Keep in mind that WMATA ridership has grown considerably in just the last 5 years. They were at 700k per day and are now around 1 million. Chicago has grown by over 100k as well. Not impossible that we couldn't see the same growth coupled with expansion. I don't know if we will pass any of them because they could grow as well, but the red/purple lines alone could be in the 400k range. |
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Post by masonite on Nov 16, 2012 17:23:13 GMT -8
Yes, we are quite a bit behind NYC, Washington, Boston, Chicago, SF, and Philly for combined ridership. In 10-15 years, we might have a shot at passing SF or Philly, but not the others. I'd say that we have an excellent chance at catching Philadelphia and SF, and an outside chance at matching what Chicago and Boston are today. Keep in mind that WMATA ridership has grown considerably in just the last 5 years. They were at 700k per day and are now around 1 million. Chicago has grown by over 100k as well. Not impossible that we couldn't see the same growth coupled with expansion. I don't know if we will pass any of them because they could grow as well, but the red/purple lines alone could be in the 400k range. I could see the Red/Purple Line at close to 400k, but only if the entire Westside Extension is built. It will be more than 10 years by the time the first section is built. I'd like to see it all done in 15 years, but that is looking doubtful with Measure J failing, but who knows, there could be another way to get it done. |
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Post by Philip on Nov 16, 2012 17:51:08 GMT -8
As a former resident of Philadelphia, I can say that L.A. definitely will surpass Philly's ridership if they keep at the current pace of building rail. Philly's system works well enough, but it's very old and in such bad need of refurbishment that the chance of any type of expansion within the city itself is very low.
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Post by jamesinclair on Nov 16, 2012 23:09:07 GMT -8
It's true that Boston is expanding their system as well but I think LA will still beat it in the future, given the baby nature of our system. When new people move to LA, they will no longer see the city as the city of cars. Its expanding but at a glacial speed. The green line expansion isnt due until around 2019 at this point. And, by the way, not that Boston has one, and only one light rail line. Edit: Well two, theres the Mattapn line, which runs PCCs. |
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Post by jdrcrasher on Nov 16, 2012 23:50:01 GMT -8
I could see the Red/Purple Line at close to 400k, but only if the entire Westside Extension is built. It will be more than 10 years by the time the first section is built. I'd like to see it all done in 15 years, but that is looking doubtful with Measure J failing, but who knows, there could be another way to get it done. Is by NO means unlikely. In fact, I think it's more likely than ever that in 2016 we will see not just a recreation of Measure J & 30/10, but a Measure R2 as well, with all new projects (Vermont Corridor, Silver Line, Whittier subway, etc etc). Remember, by then GLFE II and Expo phase II will (hopefully) be completed, and construction on the subway extension and regional connector will be in full swing. I don't think Southern Californians will truly know and appreciate it means to have a vast, comprehensive transit system until it finally, after decades of tries and failures, reaches the world famous beach known as Santa Monica. Once that happens, the cries for more rail lines will go through the roof. I'd say that we have an excellent chance at catching Philadelphia and SF, and an outside chance at matching what Chicago and Boston are today. Keep in mind that WMATA ridership has grown considerably in just the last 5 years. They were at 700k per day and are now around 1 million. Chicago has grown by over 100k as well. Not impossible that we couldn't see the same growth coupled with expansion. I don't know if we will pass any of them because they could grow as well, but the red/purple lines alone could be in the 400k range. To be honest, i think it's gonna be immensely difficult, even at this pace, to catch Chicago. If all the lines I partially mentioned above are built along with all my dream lines (or at least something similar), then we just might have a shot at the Windy City. Having just recently visited New York, and riding their mass transit system, I can definitively say that it's..... well, on a whole other level; it's gonna remain the most ridden system in the US for at least another 100 years (if its not underwater by then). |
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Post by bzcat on Nov 19, 2012 12:17:22 GMT -8
I think LA will eventually catch everyone except NYC. There are two big reasons for this:
1. The one big difference between LA and the cities in the Northeast and Chicago is that our population is still growing in the urban core (roughly the area from LA River to the ocean, and from Sunset Blvd down to Imperial Highway); so transit demand will continue to grow.
2. Most of these other cities are growing ridership from commuter rail and metro line extensions to lower density suburban areas. LA is building rail to parts of the dense urban area that has no rail service now (while also expanding metro and commuter rail to the suburbs). So mile for mile, a BART extension to San Jose, for example, is not going to draw the same ridership to the system as Cresnshaw line extended to Hollywood or the 405 line linking SFV to the Westside would bring.
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Post by rubbertoe on Dec 13, 2012 12:38:13 GMT -8
November numbers are in:   And the larger versions: i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/RubberToe420/Combined11-12OriginalLarge.jpgi882.photobucket.com/albums/ac27/RubberToe420/Combined11-12NewLarge.jpgAnother month, another set of records being broken. The thing is, this is November, when transit ridership is historically supposed to be trending down, not hitting all time highs. The way this is trending now during the slow time of the year, the Summer of 2013 is going to be off the charts. The combined light rail ridership stands at 203,769 just exceeding the previous months record, and up 50,007 YOY or 32.52%. Since only 22.066 of that is new Expo riders, the remaining 27,941 are new riders! Blue is up 17,951 YOY (23.86%) to 93,201 which is an all time high. Green is up 5,658 YOY (13.91%) to 46,327. And the Gold Line is up 4,332 YOY (11.45%) to 42,175. Expo ticks up again to a new high of 22,066. Now at 37 consecutive months of light rail ridership increases. If you build it, they will ride, and in ever increasing numbers too ;D RT P.S. The Red Line is up 12% YOY, Silver up 27% YOY and Orange up 15% YOY. |
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Post by rubbertoe on Dec 13, 2012 12:53:47 GMT -8
The more I look at the Blue Line numbers the more shocked that I get . It's almost like they forgot to subtract out, or are accidentally adding in, the Expo Line numbers. The Blue Line had been completely stable for years. The they started up the "10 minute service" until Midnight back in November of 2011. This had the effect of keeping the December low level quite a bit higher (73,825) than it generally had been (~70,000). Then the Expo Line opens up in May, and you get the normal summer rise. But then it stays up there and hasn't looked back since...  |
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Post by macross287 on Dec 13, 2012 19:04:59 GMT -8
Here are the Per Mile Boardings for the Light Rail Lines and the Orange Line ( which i include because of similar passenger loads to the light rail lines)
November 2012
Blue (22 Miles): 4,236
Expo (8.7 Miles): 2,536
Green (20 Miles): 2,316
Gold (19.7 Miles): 2,141
Orange (18 Miles): 1,637
As for the trend of the pass few months I believe a combination of network effect of the Expo Lines existence and the high gas prices diverted the normal end of the year dip in ridership.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Dec 14, 2012 20:21:54 GMT -8
Here are the Per Mile Boardings for the Light Rail Lines and the Orange Line ( which i include because of similar passenger loads to the light rail lines) November 2012 Blue (22 Miles): 4,236 Expo (8.7 Miles): 2,536 Green (20 Miles): 2,316 Gold (19.7 Miles): 2,141 Orange (18 Miles): 1,637 As for the trend of the pass few months I believe a combination of network effect of the Expo Lines existence and the high gas prices diverted the normal end of the year dip in ridership. Thanks for calculating those. I figured that Expo was already second and I expect that it will catch the blue line before Phase 2 opens and eventually exceed it by a good bit. |
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Post by masonite on Dec 17, 2012 9:21:45 GMT -8
Here are the Per Mile Boardings for the Light Rail Lines and the Orange Line ( which i include because of similar passenger loads to the light rail lines) November 2012 Blue (22 Miles): 4,236 Expo (8.7 Miles): 2,536 Green (20 Miles): 2,316 Gold (19.7 Miles): 2,141 Orange (18 Miles): 1,637 As for the trend of the pass few months I believe a combination of network effect of the Expo Lines existence and the high gas prices diverted the normal end of the year dip in ridership. Thanks for calculating those. I figured that Expo was already second and I expect that it will catch the blue line before Phase 2 opens and eventually exceed it by a good bit. While I think Expo could pass the Blue Line in this metric, I wouldn't expect that until the Crenshaw Line and probably the Regional Connector open after Phase II is open. For Phase I to pass the Blue, it would have to have nearly 40k riders. I don't think it will get there. I'd say 25k by the time one year of operations takes place, which is May and 30k before Phase II opens. The line is limited by 12 minute headways and even if a few minutes can be shaved off, it would be tough to nearly double the ridership at this point, without any other major inputs. |
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Post by TransportationZ on Dec 17, 2012 22:23:45 GMT -8
With Phase 2, it's definitely going to surpass the Blue Line. The Blue Line is busy because it represents the backbone of the system, the main N-S thoroughfare for Metro Rail. It connects two of the largest cities in the county as well hitting many transit-dependent communities on the way.
The Expo Line however, although not as long, is going to be packed. Not only does it have the appeal of finally getting rail to the westside, but it also has the most attractions.
Expo Line has LA Live, Staples center, Convention Center, USC, the Science Center, the Natural History Museum, Coliseum, African American Museum, Culver City, Westside Pavilion, and Santa Monica(A city which itself is an attraction). Add a good shuttle to Santa Monica college, and this line will be a monster. This thing is going to be the star line and I suspect it will take the Gold Line's spot as being the flagship.
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Post by metrocenter on Dec 18, 2012 12:46:26 GMT -8
There is already a huge number of transfers at Pico, from NB Blue Line to SB Expo, and vice-versa. The network effect in action.
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Post by gatewaygent on Dec 18, 2012 21:12:37 GMT -8
I've done the Pico transfer. Maybe one day the switch at Flower/Washington will be augmented to allow Long Beach to Santa Monica (and vice versa) running. If the Expo and Blue Lines are running back to back in 12 min intervals, the LB to SM could also run in 12 min intervals that are shifted 6 min. With Expo becoming the new branch of the Gold Line (when the Connector is built) the LB to SM could become the new Aqua Line. Just a thought....
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Post by matthewb on Dec 20, 2012 17:08:46 GMT -8
I've done the Pico transfer. Maybe one day the switch at Flower/Washington will be augmented to allow Long Beach to Santa Monica (and vice versa) running. If the Expo and Blue Lines are running back to back in 12 min intervals, the LB to SM could also run in 12 min intervals that are shifted 6 min. With Expo becoming the new branch of the Gold Line (when the Connector is built) the LB to SM could become the new Aqua Line. Just a thought.... They already have an operations plan in place that's been discussed here several times. It will be Long Beach to Pasadena and Santa Monica to East LA. The chance at Pico is here to stay, at least for some years after the regional connector opens: www.metro.net/projects/connector/ |
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