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Post by James Fujita on Jan 19, 2011 21:09:17 GMT -8
I now have $30 on my TAP card!! ;D I didn't use the subway today, unfortunately. But I had a layover at Union Station, and I wanted to try the new TAP card machine.... I already have a TAP card, but it worked great when it came to adding cash to my TAP card BTW, the vending machine I found was at the Metro Red Line, west entrance (not the East Portal, but the Famima!! and Wetzel's side. EDIT: Here's what one of the new machines looks like.[ Also took some silly video (although I accidentally had my camera pointing at the cancel sign most of the time.... I may or may not upload that to YouTube...) ;D ] EDIT: Added sideways video of adding value to TAP; 48 seconds including accidentally putting the bill in upside-down.... ^_^;;;;;
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Post by ieko on Jan 20, 2011 2:17:54 GMT -8
Nice -- has anyone tried using the stored value to just pay for a zone fare? i.e. you have an EZ-Pass and instead of using change to pay the $0.90 zone charge on the Silver Line you use your TAP stored value.
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 20, 2011 7:11:33 GMT -8
Nice -- has anyone tried using the stored value to just pay for a zone fare? i.e. you have an EZ-Pass and instead of using change to pay the $0.90 zone charge on the Silver Line you use your TAP stored value. I and some others have but the Driver needs to know how to deal with it. If you tap against a farebox on a Zone fare bus, the farebox will beep with a question asking which zone you want. 1 is for a normal fare 2 is for a fare plus zone 1 and three is for normal fare plus zone 2. the driver will need to hit the appropriate number on their console to complete the transaction. I am not sure how to debit a interagency transfer fare though.
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Post by bzcat on Jan 20, 2011 11:52:26 GMT -8
So we can add money to TAP now... yeah!
Has anyone tried to deduct the money yet? i.e. board a bus and pay with TAP cash?
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 20, 2011 16:05:27 GMT -8
actually, from what I understand, you could always do that with the Culver City TAP cards.
Union Station is the first location I know of where you can use the cash reloading function of a TAP card with an MTA TAP card, and the first place where Metro has acknowledged that a cash purse is a good idea. It's a fairly large and popular location, so this is a huge step forward.
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andop2
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by andop2 on Jan 20, 2011 16:48:41 GMT -8
actually, from what I understand, you could always do that with the Culver City TAP cards Yes, I have been using a Culver City TAP card, mostly on MTA rail. I usually tap a one-way fare, or sometimes pay for a day pass with a TAP. Do you think I'll be able to load more money on my Culver City TAP card on the MTA machines? (Currently, I have to load money in person at the bus office or city hall in Culver City....)
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Post by Justin Walker on Jan 20, 2011 17:31:23 GMT -8
Union Station is the first location I know of where you can use the cash reloading function of a TAP card with an MTA TAP card, and the first place where Metro has acknowledged that a cash purse is a good idea. It's a fairly large and popular location, so this is a huge step forward. The Source reports that 22 ticket machines now allow for loading cash value to TAP cards. Today, I checked this claim by visiting the ticket machines at the Westlake/MacArthur Park station. One of the ticket machines was in fact enabled for add cash value to TAP cards.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 20, 2011 20:03:33 GMT -8
22 machines! awesome! ( "That's one small step for TAP, one giant leap for transit-kind...") And there isn't a special Suica for JR East, Tokyo Metro, Keisei, Tobu, etc.... no reason why the same wouldn't be true in Los Angeles. [ EDIT: The Source says where all 22 are. ] Hopefully those 22 will be joined by others, until every station has at least one TAP machine
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Post by ieko on Jan 21, 2011 9:23:24 GMT -8
Nice -- has anyone tried using the stored value to just pay for a zone fare? i.e. you have an EZ-Pass and instead of using change to pay the $0.90 zone charge on the Silver Line you use your TAP stored value. I and some others have but the Driver needs to know how to deal with it. If you tap against a farebox on a Zone fare bus, the farebox will beep with a question asking which zone you want. 1 is for a normal fare 2 is for a fare plus zone 1 and three is for normal fare plus zone 2. the driver will need to hit the appropriate number on their console to complete the transaction. I am not sure how to debit a interagency transfer fare though. There's no button for just paying for Zone fare?
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 21, 2011 12:04:38 GMT -8
There's no button for just paying for Zone fare? I don't know. Since I never have a monthly or weekly pass and only rarely have a Day pass I don't think I've had to deal with that situation. You might ask in the comment section in the Source Post they have been randomly answering Questions about functionality. The Transit Coalition was going to have someone from TAP this Month, but it looks like the Speaker has changed.
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 23, 2011 23:47:32 GMT -8
So, my wife and I were in Koreatown this evening. We made a pitstop at Wilshire/Western to see if we could add value from the fare machines there. Of the 3 Machines at the station, only one would add cash value to an existing tap card. It would be the one on the left, the last one we tried. But the others had the same top menu language, but they did not have the submenu for it. Add value or pass to TAP card. Tap the target. Adding the value. Side note: There is a option to add a Metro to Muni transfer, I wonder how well it works and if we can get one on the bus. Selecting the value. It goes to $200? Cool! $20 please. Adding the moolah..... Tap to complete the transaction. TA-DAH! Money added to the TAP Card.
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Post by masonite on Jan 24, 2011 10:05:12 GMT -8
Cash value is major progress.
I realize this is just a test phase, but are the machines not marked to know which one can actually add cash value or do you have to go up to each one before you find which one can add cash value?
Also, I was hoping they would have the cap feature so if you use more than four legs on any day it would not charge more than a day pass. Sometimes I don't know where the day will take me and I might not want a day pass up front, but would later in the day. Our system can't deal with that, and from the MTA's explanation on the Source, it looks like that won't be solved any time soon.
Nevertheless, this is all good progress. Hopefully, it will be in all rail stations before the end of the year.
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 24, 2011 10:21:07 GMT -8
Cash value is major progress. I realize this is just a test phase, but are the machines not marked to know which one can actually add cash value or do you have to go up to each one before you find which one can add cash value? They are not marked. The only way to tell is to go through the menus.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 24, 2011 15:11:48 GMT -8
that's odd. the one I tried at Union Station had a sign on top which said "buy a TAP card here" and that was also the "add cash value" machine as well. Even in Tokyo, some of the machines were not capable of dispensing Suica or Pasmo cards and the ones which could were often marked as such. Of course, adding value and buying a brand new TAP card are not necessarily connected, but I would suppose that if you see a TAP dispenser and you want to add value... try that one first Hopefully this test period will be a short one and they might start adding more and more "add value" machines to the system. TAP may be moving forward by tiny steps, but it does seem to be moving forward. Incidentally, some of Metro's memos would seem to indicate that the MTA is making progress with the municipal bus lines. here's the relevant passage: "Significant progress has been made on the Regional front. In addition to Culver CityBus, Foothill Transit, Montebello Bus, Norwalk Transit, AVTA and Santa Clarita who are on TAP, we have met and briefed Gardena Bus on potential future steps for turning on their UFS fare boxes to become TAP compatible. In early November, Torrance Transit met with Cubic officials to begin discussions for fare box installation in early 2011. Staff has also met with LADOT management to ensure that assistance and resources are provided to assist in their next steps toward device installation in 2011."
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 24, 2011 16:41:23 GMT -8
Yeah, the ones that say "Buy a Tap Card Here" are the ones, but you really have to look to see that since the machines look very similar. There should be machines at many stations within the next couple of weeks. Twenty-something total.
Also, I thought that I read on the Source that you could buy an empty card for $2 at the machines, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. All of the options for cards involved a fare purchase or stored value.
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 24, 2011 16:48:24 GMT -8
So, I went to Culver CityBus to ask about the Metro to Muni transfer feature on the fare machine and told the Lady at the desk I was able to load value into my cash purse from a Metro Fare Machine. She didn't believe me and thought I was adding fare to another part of the card which wouldn't work on Culver CityBus So she borrowed my card and printed out a transaction report which clearly shows last night that I had added $20 to my available cash purse when no one in Culver CityBus could have done it and it was on the purse which was accessible to Culver CityBus. The look on her face was Priceless. I think I've made a new friend.
As far as loading a Metro to Muni Transfer on the card, She made a few phone calls and the general consensus was no one had heard of it and that it wasn't likely to work. She said if I was willing to do a test at some point, she'd be happy to hear the results. I'm likely to try that feature when I head into Philippe's for the meeting tomorrow.
In other news, She said Culver CityBus is expected to go live on Google transit in a few to several weeks.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 24, 2011 17:54:12 GMT -8
So, I went to Culver CityBus to ask about the Metro to Muni transfer feature on the fare machine and told the Lady at the desk I was able to load value into my cash purse from a Metro Fare Machine. She didn't believe me and thought I was adding fare to another part of the card which wouldn't work on Culver CityBus So she borrowed my card and printed out a transaction report which clearly shows last night that I had added $20 to my available cash purse when no one in Culver CityBus could have done it and it was on the purse which was accessible to Culver CityBus. The look on her face was Priceless. I think I've made a new friend. As far as loading a Metro to Muni Transfer on the card, She made a few phone calls and the general consensus was no one had heard of it and that it wasn't likely to work. She said if I was willing to do a test at some point, she'd be happy to hear the results. I'm likely to try that feature when I head into Philippe's for the meeting tomorrow. In other news, She said Culver CityBus is expected to go live on Google transit in a few to several weeks. Any news on whether Culver CityBus are going to announce their shake-up to accomodate the Expo Line (I know, wrong thread..please move if you can)
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 24, 2011 18:57:12 GMT -8
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 25, 2011 0:00:03 GMT -8
Also, I thought that I read on the Source that you could buy an empty card for $2 at the machines, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. All of the options for cards involved a fare purchase or stored value. I suppose they figured there would be no point to buying an empty card. It would be a bit like buying a car with no gas in it. I got a new shaver for Christmas and was pleasantly surprised to see that it already had quite a bit of "juice" in it without having to charge it up. The same logic would probably apply to TAP cards.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jan 25, 2011 7:18:11 GMT -8
I don't know about all of that, but I wanted to buy cards for other people that would be adding fares later. You can buy TAP cards for $2 at the tourist booth outside Hollywood/Highland and IIRC The Source or some other blog had said that you could do the same thing with the new TVM's but I couldn't figure out how.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 25, 2011 15:06:50 GMT -8
I don't know about all of that, but I wanted to buy cards for other people that would be adding fares later. You can buy TAP cards for $2 at the tourist booth outside Hollywood/Highland and IIRC The Source or some other blog had said that you could do the same thing with the new TVM's but I couldn't figure out how. I hadn't considered the possibility of buying cards for others. Since I already have a card, and I'm guessing a lot of this transit board's readers do as well, that would be one way of "testing" the machines. It's possible that the Source might be wrong. In that case, I would add on the least amount and ask for reimbursement. *shrug* Or, it's a gift. Like buying a Borders gift card, only you give them the TAP Card instead. Happy Birthday! Here's a dozen free rides on Metro Rail. That would be an interesting way to encourage ridership. Fill up a bunch of TAP cards, hand them out....
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 25, 2011 22:53:33 GMT -8
As far as loading a Metro to Muni Transfer on the card, She made a few phone calls and the general consensus was no one had heard of it and that it wasn't likely to work. She said if I was willing to do a test at some point, she'd be happy to hear the results. I'm likely to try that feature when I head into Philippe's for the meeting tomorrow. So it's tomorrow already and my test was half successful. On the way in, the Culver CityBus Driver didn't want to take my transfer fare. He just handed me the slip and motioned me to the back. I did a double take to no avail. But on the way back, the metro driver was surprised, but willing to try to load my card with an InterAgency Transfer. The fare came off the card. Then when I boarded the CC #3 and taped it, the transfer worked. It's still one more tap than is necessary but it works.
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Post by ieko on Jan 26, 2011 1:36:36 GMT -8
I am also happy to report that my EZ-Pass [for base far] + TAP [for zone fare] worked amazingly well on the Silver Line [hurray, no change to carry, ever again!]
I held up my EZ-Pass and TAP Card and told the driver what I wished to accomplish, he said sure and apparently knew exactly what to do -- which is far from what I expected to be honest! The box deducted $0.95 as it should and for fun I used TAP on the Red Line, Green Line and 232. It all worked flawlessly.
So now I'd like to see the transfer working like matt has and would also like to attempt to pay for Silver Streak zone fare in the same manner as I did the Silver Line. I wonder what would happen if I got a transfer loaded to my TAP card then tried to use it for base fare and pay for Zone Fare on the Silver Streak or Silver Line?
I think the next step would be an upgrade to the TAP website.. (it really is awful) so that I can tie a debit card or bank account to my TAP card. I also find it really hard to determine if I have balance protection enabled.. in fact I can't figure it out. So if anyone has advice on this I'd like to know. I tried to add balance protection today and it didn't work and I can't remember if I added it before because I've had this card since 2009 and used it maybe twice now.
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Post by bzcat on Jan 27, 2011 11:03:55 GMT -8
Or, it's a gift. Like buying a Borders gift card, only you give them the TAP Card instead. Happy Birthday! Here's a dozen free rides on Metro Rail. That would be an interesting way to encourage ridership. Fill up a bunch of TAP cards, hand them out.... When Taipei introduced their EasyCard, the city mailed out a card with 2 rides pre-loaded to every resident in the city (including kids 12 and above). Something like 2 million cards was distributed in the span of 15 days and it worked from day 1 on subways, buses, and all city-owned parking garages. It makes Metro's TAP implementation look positively amateurish.
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Post by masonite on Jan 27, 2011 12:06:56 GMT -8
Or, it's a gift. Like buying a Borders gift card, only you give them the TAP Card instead. Happy Birthday! Here's a dozen free rides on Metro Rail. That would be an interesting way to encourage ridership. Fill up a bunch of TAP cards, hand them out.... When Taipei introduced their EasyCard, the city mailed out a card with 2 rides pre-loaded to every resident in the city (including kids 12 and above). Something like 2 million cards was distributed in the span of 15 days and it worked from day 1 on subways, buses, and all city-owned parking garages. It makes Metro's TAP implementation look positively amateurish. That would be a great idea for here in LA. Maybe when they integrate it with the muni operators and get it more functional that can be done. That is so much better than having a day or two of free rides, which the Mayor has proposed in the past.
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Post by bzcat on Jan 27, 2011 17:25:49 GMT -8
There are about 4 million people in LA City but let say we cut it off at people 18 and older, that's about 3 million people. Each TAP card cost $2. Two rides cost $3. Balk-rate USPS mail is 25 cents per piece. That's $15.7 million budget to mail out a TAP card with 2 rides pre-loaded to every adult in the city.
LA County has 11 million people (and say about 8 million adults?)... so this could get more expensive on a county wide basis.
But as you can see, $16 million just to target every adult in LA City is relatively small sum of money. I think some city agency has soda and bottle water budget higher than that... (I'm looking at you DWP!)
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Post by ieko on Jan 28, 2011 0:17:38 GMT -8
So just an update, I've run into a few operators on different carriers that aren't sure how to work with TAP stored value...
Essentially they need to act as if the TAP card is cash when they push buttons on the console.
For example, if I present my EZ Pass and wish to pay zone fare they must hit the EZ Pass button as normal and hit "5" to accept zone fare. Or if you ask for a Metro to muni transfer, they must hit "A" just like they would normally. The only difference is you're now TAP'ing the card after they press these buttons so you must explain what you wish to do before.. or else you'll be deducted the default fare.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 29, 2011 21:03:13 GMT -8
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Post by mattapoisett on Jan 29, 2011 22:11:34 GMT -8
But there are random machines which look like the one on the left and do not dispense cards but they will add cash value to a TAP card. You have to go into the menu to see which is which. At Wilshire/Western only one of three Machines can do it.
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Post by James Fujita on Jan 29, 2011 23:27:02 GMT -8
well, Metro seems to have deemed dispensing TAP cards to be more worthy of a new sign and adding value as not worthy of a new sign. I edited the caption slightly to reflect this.
probably it is easier to convert a machine for adding value than it is to convert a machine for dispensing new cards. therefore, more machines will probably be capable of adding value than dispensing in the future.
dispensing cards also requires 'reloading' the machine with cards if the machine should run out.
what I would recommend is, if you see a machine with the TAP dispensing sign on it, make a beeline for it first, because any machine modified for TAP dispensing will likely be able to add cash value as well.
so far, we have only witnessed three types of TVM: 1) can't add, can't dispense 2) can add, can't dispense 3) can add, can dispense
in Tokyo, pretty much all machines were capable of adding value, but only select machines were for dispensing Suica cards — a good way to sort out customers, avoid lines....
probably there are no "add value here" signs because we are appear to be in a transitional period, and hopefully "add value" machines will outnumber "can't add value" soon....
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