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Post by skater on Nov 15, 2013 11:23:04 GMT -8
That's correct. Unfortunately they didn't design the Downtown Santa Monica Station with future extensions in mind. Back in the days, Expo Line (named Air Line then) used to continue along Main Street to the other Downtown Santa Monica (Main St commercial section in South Santa Monica), Ocean Park, Venice, Marina Del Rey, and Inglewood, to connect with the Crenshaw Line (BNSF/ATSF tracks). Of course, in even older days, there used to be a branch going as far as past the Santa Monica Canyon (Roadhouse Bar and Grill) to the Long Wharf / Port Los Angeles, which is now replaced by a Lifeguard station. Might this have been along electric avenue, the very short marina fwy, and I-405 to meet up around florence/la cienega? Perhaps the city of santa monica can make a streetcar that circulates around downtown, and maybe one day there will be a venice blvd line. Yep, some work even started on the Eastside Red Line. It wasn't just some plan. Union Station will be limited in handling more frequency from the Purple Line Extension. One idea that I like is to create a terminal station on the tracks between Union Station and its maintenance yard. The tracks are already there. It is just a matter of creating an a station. It would be the only above ground heavy rail station in the system. Ridership probably wouldn't be huge in this part of Downtown, but certainly would beat Farmdale, and it wouldn't cost too much since the tracks are already there. Haven't heard much about this for a few years. Perhaps it is so they can easily get cleaning equipment in and out of the trains? How where they planning to extend the red line east, a bridge over the river into the tunnel? The HRT tracks end just south of 6th? was this where the bridge over the river would be? W asn't it the 1998 Subway ban that stopped this extension? |
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Post by bzcat on Nov 15, 2013 11:33:32 GMT -8
I think you answered your own question  Expo terminal at Santa Monica is really going to be the first time we are building a proper terminal (besides Union Station) for our modern rail system. 7th street, Wilshire/Western, North Hollywood, Sierra Madre Villa, Atlantic, Norwalk, and Redondo Beach were all designed to allow the lines to be extended. The tunnel you mentioned in North Hollywood would have continued on to the Orange Line ROW and transition to above ground. Long Beach was designed as a loop so the train can deadhead back to the yard. What's amazing is that even Union Station wasn't intended as a permanent terminal, as extensions of the Red Line to East L.A. were on the table (pre-dating the eventual Gold Line route), but without funding. Downtown Santa Monica and Downtown Long Beach are (for now) the only real terminals station in the system, though they may still connect with other lines in the future (for example, Expo could connect with an extended Green Line via Lincoln or an extended Purple Line from the east). Well, now that you mentioned, I actually would amend my post because Union Station is designed as revenue service terminal but not operational terminal, that being the train yard by the LA River. By the time Red line was build, the earlier idea to extend it across the river had been abandoned so you will not be able to extend the Red line from Union Station. We will have to extend it from the service track leading to the train yard. Santa Monica will be the only revenue service AND operational terminal. Long Beach as I mentioned, is not a operation terminal. Trains do not rest at the Transit Mall, they deadhead back to the yard after revenue service is over. |
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Adrian Auer-Hudson
Junior Member
Supporter of "Expo Light Rail - Enabler for the Digital Coast".
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Post by Adrian Auer-Hudson on Nov 15, 2013 12:42:25 GMT -8
Though extending the Expo Line northward from 4th & Colorado, along the beach, may be impractical engineering-wise. A trolley from the station northward to Long Wharf may not be. ...Perhaps this is something for Santa Monica to look at, if not Metro. IMHO Extending Northwest was doable. But it would have been expensive. One envisaged a subterranean station in Downtown Santa Monica. The line would have emerged from the cliff face above PCH to run elevated to a large parking garage at Sunset and PCH. Although this would not have been an inexpensive section to build, it would be a very tempting commute option for folks driving in from Malibu, et al. |
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Post by masonite on Nov 15, 2013 13:24:53 GMT -8
I believe the plan was to have the Red Line station not in the maintenance yard, but rather in the Arts District along the track between Union Station and the Maintenance Yard. They could still build the subway East from Union Station. At some point it would have to connect to the tracks going to the Maintenance Yard, but that doesn't mean that all trains have to go through the Maintenance Yard. They could build a switch, unless I am really missing something.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 22, 2013 13:01:34 GMT -8
Latest status of the Washington/National TOD:  |
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Post by rajacobs on Dec 6, 2013 19:27:33 GMT -8
Apparently, the Trackside development conceptual for the Palms Station is well along. I found these images at LATNP Palms:
Specifically this is the Vons-Cheviot Hills Shopping Center redeveloped. It's interesting that the city has placed the crosswalk (across National) in such a fashion that it goes nowhere. the eastern side of Shelby Drive has no sidewalk; only parked cars. Thus the older folks who are residents at the assisted living facility can be viewed walking in the middle of the street!
Note: This should read "from Shelby Drive looking across National."
URL=http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/rajacobs/media/Rail/Vons-CheviotHillsShCtrDev2.jpg.html]
[/URL] URL=http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/rajacobs/media/Rail/Vons-CheviotHillsShCtrDev2.jpg.html]  [/URL] [/p] |
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Dec 13, 2013 12:17:10 GMT -8
How where they planning to extend the red line east, a bridge over the river into the tunnel? The HRT tracks end just south of 6th? was this where the bridge over the river would be? W asn't it the 1998 Subway ban that stopped this extension?Not sure of the specifics, but the subway ban was directly envisioned by Henry Waxman and his constituents to prevent the Red Line from tunneling through Miracle Mile |
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Post by masonite on Dec 13, 2013 12:29:25 GMT -8
How where they planning to extend the red line east, a bridge over the river into the tunnel? The HRT tracks end just south of 6th? was this where the bridge over the river would be? W asn't it the 1998 Subway ban that stopped this extension?Not sure of the specifics, but the subway ban was directly envisioned by Henry Waxman and his constituents to prevent the Red Line from tunneling through Miracle Mile Two different things. The Subway Ban of 1998 was a ballot initiative voted on by LA County voters that specfically banned spending Prop A and C money on subway construction. The Waxman ban was a Congressional action that banned the use of federal funds for subway construction in the Miracle Mile area. It has since been overturned. The Subway Ban of 1998 remains in effect. However, Measure R has no such ban. |
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 13, 2013 13:54:52 GMT -8
Thanks for the Vons -- my local grocery store -- redevelopment pics. I am sure they will build a sidewalk if necessary.
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Post by rajacobs on Dec 14, 2013 14:49:36 GMT -8
The sidewalk I'd like to see would run between the shopping center underneath the Santa Monica Freeway exit ramp and the freeway itself, terminating on the south side--offering shopping center access to pedestrians and cyclists without the sidewalk crossings at the exit ramp and Exposition and having to endure the incredible decibel levels underneath the freeway bridge.
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Post by TransportationZ on Dec 14, 2013 15:04:00 GMT -8
The sidewalk I'd like to see would run between the shopping center underneath the Santa Monica Freeway exit ramp and the freeway itself, terminating on the south side--offering shopping center access to pedestrians and cyclists without the sidewalk crossings at the exit ramp and Exposition and having to endure the incredible decibel levels underneath the freeway bridge. Indeed, I thought about this myself. When I went to St Louis over the summer, the light rail system had a very similar situation at the Richmond Heights MetroLink(That's what they call their light rail) Station. A nice huge mall next to a rail station but separated by a freeway - not a pleasant walk. The sidewalks are horrible and passing under a freeway isn't fun. I think a ped tunnel would be a good idea. Passing under a freeway would probably turn off many riders, especially at night riders. Richmond Heights MetroLink Station |
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 21, 2014 11:49:00 GMT -8
Culver City finally recently started the design - build process of the huge Expo Line Culver Junction TOD that will be built over the existing parking lot. There will be an underground parking structure. I wonder where people will park during the construction, as the 600+ spaces fill up around 9:15 am. Meanwhile, the progress of the Washington/National TOD:  |
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Post by bzcat on Jan 30, 2014 11:25:50 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 30, 2014 11:58:39 GMT -8
Not really an Expo TOD, more a USC development, but I've been really excited about it. Current UV is a very boring mall and this replacement will be great. Also note that Jefferson Blvd is being narrowed to make it more pedestrian friendly. There was this horrible incident in 2009 when a drunk woman ran a red light and killed an 18-year-old female student from Santa Barbara at the Jefferson Blvd / Hoover St intersection at the lower right corner in the picture. Her husband then peeled his male friend from the windshield and placed him on the sidewalk in a very mangled condition. Despite her husband having their damaged Infiniti towed to Mexico, they both eventually got caught and received the maximum possible sentence. |
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 30, 2014 16:45:19 GMT -8
Not really an Expo TOD, more a USC development, but I've been really excited about it. Current UV is a very boring mall and this replacement will be great. The existing shopping center is beyond ugly: it is very impractically designed and difficult to navigate. OTOH, the design of the "Village at USC" is gorgeous! If this turns out anything like the renderings, it will create a walkable area on par with Westwood Village, or (dare I say it) Harvard. Really, they can't build this soon enough! But I agree: it's not a TOD. |
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Post by bzcat on Jan 30, 2014 17:57:54 GMT -8
Well, it's not TOD... and I agree. But it is "development near Expo line".
The new UV will go a long way to make north campus area more pedestrian friendly which presumably will further encourage boarding at the USC/Jefferson station right down the street.
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Post by bzcat on Feb 5, 2014 16:45:51 GMT -8
Bergamot station mixed used development was approved last night: smdp.com/hines-gets-the-go-ahead-on-bergamot/131836Angry NIMBY not amused... their incoherent argument against this project included both "too much traffic" and "not enough parking", and they cried both without a hint of irony. This is going to be a fantastic development turning one of the most derelict parcel of land along Expo line into one of the nicest TOD in LA county, and probably the most welcoming station on the Expo line. |
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Post by davebowman on Feb 7, 2014 11:12:18 GMT -8
I live about four blocks north of 26th St. and Olympic, drive through that intersection (twice) everyday, and I'm all for this development. I'm not an urban planning expert, but I thought the whole idea behind mixed-use TOD/infill development is that it reduces traffic by enabling people to have access to more services without getting in their cars. And won't having those services adjacent to Bergamot Station make taking the Expo Line more attractive for the people who work or live around there? If I can pick up stuff walking home from Bergamot Station that will be one less car trip I have to make. It will probably take me longer to get to work at USC via the Expo Line than driving, but if I can eliminate an extra shopping trip that is time saved.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 3, 2014 10:06:57 GMT -8
Expo Line Washington/National Boulevards TOD at the Culver Junction:  |
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 4, 2014 18:32:20 GMT -8
Apparently Culver City is about to break ground for the large TOD in the station parking lot.
This means soon there will be no more station parking until the underground parking is finished.
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Post by matthewb on Mar 5, 2014 2:37:00 GMT -8
It will be interesting to see how the lack of parking affects ridership. If there is no noticeable decrease, that would be good evidence that Metro shouldn't spend its money on parking lots at similar stations. If there's a decrease, that will give evidence that parking lots are useful to increase ridership, at least until more walkable neighborhoods get developed around new stations.
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Post by John Ryan on Mar 5, 2014 7:41:34 GMT -8
Apparently Culver City is about to break ground for the large TOD in the station parking lot. This means soon there will be no more station parking until the underground parking is finished. Gokhan, I went through the thread again and couldn't find any details on the project (beyond number of parking spaces). Do we know anything more--number of stories, number of units, any renders? |
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 5, 2014 9:40:05 GMT -8
That's all the info I got from Councilmember O' Leary and he also mentioned shuttles from the station to the (paid?) Ince Blvd parking structure.
At one point I vaguely remember it being some sort of an entertainment complex but I don't know about the actual current plans.
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f ron
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Post by f ron on Mar 5, 2014 9:55:48 GMT -8
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Post by bzcat on Mar 5, 2014 10:45:47 GMT -8
The Platform is the project across the street from Expo station - i.e. the hole in the ground photos on the south side of Washington Blvd & National that Gokhan has been posting. The station parkling lot project is was called Lowe mixed-use development and it was delayed when Jerry Brown dissolved all the Redevelopment Agencies during last year's budget crisis. It was supposed to began construction in 2013 and be completed by end of 2014. But now it looks like it will start in the summer or fall 2014 and will be completed about the same time phase 2 opens. According to CurbedLA, the project is supposed to be a four-story office building, 200 apartments, a 150-room hotel, 75,000 square feet of retail, and a public transit plaza and park. la.curbed.com/archives/2013/10/mapping_culver_citys_development_boom_the_good_the_moving_and_the_stalled.php |
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f ron
Full Member
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Post by f ron on Mar 5, 2014 11:28:09 GMT -8
The Platform is the project across the street from Expo station - i.e. the hole in the ground photos on the south side of Washington Blvd & National that Gokhan has been posting. ... According to CurbedLA, the project is supposed to be a four-story office building, 200 apartments, a 150-room hotel, 75,000 square feet of retail, and a public transit plaza and park. Thanks! It's hard to keep up! Little Culver City is growing up so fast. It'll be hard to recognise the place in 10 years. Pity they couldn't figure out a way to keep the film industry there while they were at it! |
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Post by joshuanickel on Mar 5, 2014 13:41:32 GMT -8
The Platform is the project across the street from Expo station - i.e. the hole in the ground photos on the south side of Washington Blvd & National that Gokhan has been posting. The station parkling lot project is was called Lowe mixed-use development and it was delayed when Jerry Brown dissolved all the Redevelopment Agencies during last year's budget crisis. It was supposed to began construction in 2013 and be completed by end of 2014. But now it looks like it will start in the summer or fall 2014 and will be completed about the same time phase 2 opens. According to CurbedLA, the project is supposed to be a four-story office building, 200 apartments, a 150-room hotel, 75,000 square feet of retail, and a public transit plaza and park. la.curbed.com/archives/2013/10/mapping_culver_citys_development_boom_the_good_the_moving_and_the_stalled.phpThe platform is where the old car dealership was west of the tracks on Washington. The Big hole in the ground that Gokhan posts photos of is Access Culver City which is east of the tracks where the roofing supply was located. Here is a map I created to show the location of each project: Map of ProjectsHere is a helpful article that describes the multiple projects in the culver city area: Mapping Culver City's Development Boom |
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Post by RMoses on Mar 5, 2014 15:26:08 GMT -8
The Platform is the project across the street from Expo station - i.e. the hole in the ground photos on the south side of Washington Blvd & National that Gokhan has been posting. The station parkling lot project is was called Lowe mixed-use development and it was delayed when Jerry Brown dissolved all the Redevelopment Agencies during last year's budget crisis. It was supposed to began construction in 2013 and be completed by end of 2014. But now it looks like it will start in the summer or fall 2014 and will be completed about the same time phase 2 opens. According to CurbedLA, the project is supposed to be a four-story office building, 200 apartments, a 150-room hotel, 75,000 square feet of retail, and a public transit plaza and park. la.curbed.com/archives/2013/10/mapping_culver_citys_development_boom_the_good_the_moving_and_the_stalled.phpThe platform is where the old car dealership was west of the tracks on Washington. The Big hole in the ground that Gokhan posts photos of is Access Culver City which is east of the tracks where the roofing supply was located. Here is a map I created to show the location of each project: Map of ProjectsHere is a helpful article that describes the multiple projects in the culver city area: Mapping Culver City's Development BoomVery nice map, handy schematic. |
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Post by skater on Mar 5, 2014 17:24:02 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 5, 2014 22:40:57 GMT -8
From expolinefan. Still not known what will be the giga project they will build in the parking lot:  |
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Expo terminal at Santa Monica is really going to be the first time we are building a proper terminal (besides Union Station) for our modern rail system. 
