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Post by transitfan on Jan 24, 2013 6:29:40 GMT -8
I doubt if the 456 would ever return, MTA seems not to have a desire to send its own buses to downtown Long Beach (the only MTA route that currently operates to the Transit Mall is the 232, which is contractor-operated). Now if a contractor were to operate a revitalized 456...
Maybe this time, instead of that long stretch on Long Beach Blvd, it could stay on the 710 to the 6th/7th St pairing (southbound: 710 to 6th St to Long Beach Blvd to Transit Mall (1st St), stopping at the shelter that the 232 uses, then Pacific St to 7th St back to 710).
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Post by bzcat on Jan 24, 2013 11:51:38 GMT -8
I think BBB will keep Rapid 10 for reason some of you already mentioned... it is faster if you want to go to north part of Downtown LA, and the Santa Monica Blvd corridor which Rapid 10 serves is a good long walk away from Expo line on Colorado/Olympic in midtown and uptown Santa Monica. I do think BBB will reduce Rapid 10 service but they won't eliminated... at least not until Regional Connector opens and Expo line runs right up to Bunker Hill and Little Tokyo.
With Expo 2, there will be increase demand for N-S bus service on Lincoln, 17th Street, Bundy/Centinela, Sepulveda, and Westwood. BBB will for sure need to beef up Crosstown (17th St), Rapid 12 (Westwood) and add Rapid 14 (Bundy) as I already mentioned. I don't foreseen much changes needed on E-W bus other than perhaps more frequency on Line 5 as it is the only bus that currently serves Bergamot Station.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 24, 2013 21:56:41 GMT -8
I think BBB will keep Rapid 10 for reason some of you already mentioned... it is faster if you want to go to north part of Downtown LA, and the Santa Monica Blvd corridor which Rapid 10 serves is a good long walk away from Expo line on Colorado/Olympic in midtown and uptown Santa Monica. I do think BBB will reduce Rapid 10 service but they won't eliminated... at least not until Regional Connector opens and Expo line runs right up to Bunker Hill and Little Tokyo. With Expo 2, there will be increase demand for N-S bus service on Lincoln, 17th Street, Bundy/Centinela, Sepulveda, and Westwood. BBB will for sure need to beef up Crosstown (17th St), Rapid 12 (Westwood) and add Rapid 14 (Bundy) as I already mentioned. I don't foreseen much changes needed on E-W bus other than perhaps more frequency on Line 5 as it is the only bus that currently serves Bergamot Station. We all have a soft spot for the BBB Rapid 10. I know, I'm a daily rider. Best bus line in LA. But, just as you outlined in your last paragraph, I'd rather see resources enhanced for more N-S trips in Santa Monica with the addition of the Expo Line and the BBB Rapid 10 will have to the casualty. Rapid 10 averages 90 minutes end to end (downtown Santa Monica to Union Station) during rush hour...the Expo Line will do that in 50 minutes (I heard 46, but I don't believe it...based on the 29 min between 7th to Culver City timetable). Sure, during off peak the Rapid 10 is much faster, but during rush hour, the Expo Line will start winning more people due to greater frequency and more reliability. I'd like to see beefed up bus service in Santa Monica, however, if Rapid 10 was eliminated.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 25, 2013 6:26:22 GMT -8
I think Rapid 10 should be eliminated upon the completion of the Expo Line. I use the Rapid 10 nearly everyday to travel between work and home, but once the Expo Line is running, there is no need for duplicative service. It was like when Metro terminated Line 1 when the Red Line started or the freeway express that served Long Beach before the Blue Line. There is no more need for this service. Rapid 10 has been great, I still call it the most reliable and dependable bus service. However, I think the resources of Rapid 10 should be moved to either increase service on Line 5 and 7. The Silver Line already demonstrates this. If I need to go to Green Line from downtown LA, a Silver Line will get me to the Green Line faster than the Blue Line ever could. The Silver Line serves a different corridor than the Blue Line and is not comparable to the Rapid 10 with Expo Line. The Silver Line has stops in the middle of the I-110 freeway between 1.5 - 2 miles away from a nearby Blue Line station and terminates in a transit center that connects to many local bus feeders. As another poster mentioned, once the Regional Connector is done, with the completed Expo Line, the Rapid 10 is an exact replica of the service pattern. Outside of the Santa Monica blvd portion from northn of La Grange to east of Yale, all other stops are walkable from an Expo Line station. Rapid 10 has no stops in the middle of a freeway which would differentiate it from the Expo Line. They both start and end at the same place (assuming completion of the Regional Connector). It's essentially duplicative service at this point.
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Post by masonite on Jan 25, 2013 9:32:00 GMT -8
I think BBB will keep Rapid 10 for reason some of you already mentioned... it is faster if you want to go to north part of Downtown LA, and the Santa Monica Blvd corridor which Rapid 10 serves is a good long walk away from Expo line on Colorado/Olympic in midtown and uptown Santa Monica. I do think BBB will reduce Rapid 10 service but they won't eliminated... at least not until Regional Connector opens and Expo line runs right up to Bunker Hill and Little Tokyo. With Expo 2, there will be increase demand for N-S bus service on Lincoln, 17th Street, Bundy/Centinela, Sepulveda, and Westwood. BBB will for sure need to beef up Crosstown (17th St), Rapid 12 (Westwood) and add Rapid 14 (Bundy) as I already mentioned. I don't foreseen much changes needed on E-W bus other than perhaps more frequency on Line 5 as it is the only bus that currently serves Bergamot Station. We all have a soft spot for the BBB Rapid 10. I know, I'm a daily rider. Best bus line in LA. But, just as you outlined in your last paragraph, I'd rather see resources enhanced for more N-S trips in Santa Monica with the addition of the Expo Line and the BBB Rapid 10 will have to the casualty. Rapid 10 averages 90 minutes end to end (downtown Santa Monica to Union Station) during rush hour...the Expo Line will do that in 50 minutes (I heard 46, but I don't believe it...based on the 29 min between 7th to Culver City timetable). Sure, during off peak the Rapid 10 is much faster, but during rush hour, the Expo Line will start winning more people due to greater frequency and more reliability. I'd like to see beefed up bus service in Santa Monica, however, if Rapid 10 was eliminated. Remember it is 46 min. (or 50 as I think you are probably right about that figure) to Metro Center. Union Station would be another 15 minutes or so with a transfer and even with the Regional Connector you will need a transfer.
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Post by bzcat on Jan 25, 2013 11:24:16 GMT -8
We all have a soft spot for the BBB Rapid 10. I know, I'm a daily rider. Best bus line in LA. But, just as you outlined in your last paragraph, I'd rather see resources enhanced for more N-S trips in Santa Monica with the addition of the Expo Line and the BBB Rapid 10 will have to the casualty. Rapid 10 averages 90 minutes end to end (downtown Santa Monica to Union Station) during rush hour...the Expo Line will do that in 50 minutes (I heard 46, but I don't believe it...based on the 29 min between 7th to Culver City timetable). Sure, during off peak the Rapid 10 is much faster, but during rush hour, the Expo Line will start winning more people due to greater frequency and more reliability. I'd like to see beefed up bus service in Santa Monica, however, if Rapid 10 was eliminated. Remember it is 46 min. (or 50 as I think you are probably right about that figure) to Metro Center. Union Station would be another 15 minutes or so with a transfer and even with the Regional Connector you will need a transfer. But most people on Rapid 10 are not going to Union Station. They are going to Financial District or the Civic Center area. Expo line will be faster during rush hour once Regional connector opens. But between 2016 (Expo 2 opens) and 2019 (Regional connector opens?), Rapid 10 will still have some value. But I won't be shedding any tears if BBB does decide to get rid of it in 2016 in favor of the MUCH needed Rapid 14 and expand Rapid 12 to all day service.
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Post by Philip on Mar 15, 2013 8:18:31 GMT -8
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Post by bzcat on Sept 9, 2013 10:08:41 GMT -8
Please take the Big Blue Bus Expo Phase 2 survey: www.surveymonkey.com/Home_Landing.aspx?sm=cZQspjTB7t7yn3Fg6D7tizEhWgDTARZM73zPn2MdIkM%3dOne of the question asks about what to do with parking vs. exclusive bus lanes during rush hour. Please suggest exclusive bus lane. The last question is open ended suggestions. I kindly ask you to put the following suggestions: 1. Please include real time bus arrival info on your website and make it available on mobile devices. 2. Please consider adding Rapid 14 on Bundy or increase service on Line 14 to meet increasing demand for connection to Expo. 3. Please consider running Rapid 3 and Rapid 7 on weekends.
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Post by joshuanickel on Feb 11, 2014 17:40:30 GMT -8
The Big Blue Bus will host 3 public meetings starting tonight on Expo Bus Connections for Phase 2: Expo Community Workshops
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 12, 2014 13:32:52 GMT -8
The Big Blue Bus will host 3 public meetings starting tonight on Expo Bus Connections for Phase 2: This is a joke. Why don't they fix their Phase 1 connections first before they even think about Phase 2? The timing of their buses is awful -- buses leave just when the trains are arriving, the service is infrequent -- such as ridiculous 30-minute headways on No 5 to Century City, and headways become infrequent in the middle of evening rush hour. It's really faster to walk to the station than taking the Blue Bus. Few people use them to connect to the Expo Line. Metro No 33/733 bus seems to be the most popular Expo Line connection.
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Post by masonite on Feb 12, 2014 13:53:04 GMT -8
The Big Blue Bus will host 3 public meetings starting tonight on Expo Bus Connections for Phase 2: This is a joke. Why don't they fix their Phase 1 connections first before they even think about Phase 2? The timing of their buses is awful -- buses leave just when the trains are arriving, the service is infrequent -- such as ridiculous 30-minute headways on No 5 to Century City, and headways become infrequent in the middle of evening rush hour. It's really faster to walk to the station than taking the Blue Bus. Few people use them to connect to the Expo Line. Metro No 33/733 bus seems to be the most popular Expo Line connection. Well, for Phase 2, the Big Blue Bus is often the main or only connection to some of the stations so it is that much more important. Expo could really make or break BBB. Not a surprise that the 733 would be the most popular connection as it is a relatively fast route to Venice from the terminal station.
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Post by Philip on Feb 12, 2014 14:41:44 GMT -8
It seems to me Big Blue Bus and Culver City Bus will be the two with the most to offer Expo in terms of bus connections.
The only modifications I see Metro making are routing the beach buses to 4th/Colorado (4/704, 20/720, and 33/733) and *maybe* extending the 761 to Expo at Sepulveda or Westwood.
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Post by joshuanickel on Feb 12, 2014 14:46:01 GMT -8
The problem with improved bus service is where will the funding will come from? The big blue bus did not have money to implement new service to expo when it opened. Ihey had to take away existing service from elsewhere. For the lines that serve culver city station currently already existed in some form before the train opened:
Part of what they are doing now with Phase 2(culver city station is included in the planning) is looking at every line in the system to see what is needed, what is not, and what could be moved elsewhere because there is no new funding for new service. Example: If we add service along Westwood, you have to take away from lets say Wilshire.
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Post by bzcat on Feb 13, 2014 11:59:58 GMT -8
I can't make it to the meetings but I already sent an email to BBB with some suggestions:
1. New Rapid 14 to improve Bundy/Centinela corridor and better connection to Expo line @ Bundy/Olympic. Or significantly increase Line 14 frequency if Rapid is not possible. 2. Modify Line 5 so it serves Bergamot Station better (East bound bus turn 1 block earlier on Clverfield instead of 26th St from Colorado to Olympic) 3. Re-route Crosstown Ride to serve 17th street both ways (and Expo station) instead of the current one-way loop on 14th and 20th street. 4. Bus-only lane on 4th street to make sure Line 2,3,5,9,R3 can stick to schedules and not get bogged down by traffic in Downtown. 5. Eliminate R20 (I know this won't save much money because it is a reposition run for 12/R12 but it is a pointless service after Phase 2 opens). 6. Re-route Line 13 to serve Expo Palms station. 7. Re-route Sunset ride to serve Bergamot Station.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Feb 13, 2014 12:09:19 GMT -8
I can't make it to the meetings but I already sent an email to BBB with some suggestions: 1. New Rapid 14 to improve Bundy/Centinela corridor and better connection to Expo line @ Bundy/Olympic. Or significantly increase Line 14 frequency if Rapid is not possible. 2. Modify Line 5 so it serves Bergamot Station better (East bound bus turn 1 block earlier on Clverfield instead of 26th St from Colorado to Olympic) 3. Re-route Crosstown Ride to serve 17th street both ways (and Expo station) instead of the current one-way loop on 14th and 20th street. 4. Bus-only lane on 4th street to make sure Line 2,3,5,9,R3 can stick to schedules and not get bogged down by traffic in Downtown. 5. Eliminate R20 (I know this won't save much money because it is a reposition run for 12/R12 but it is a pointless service after Phase 2 opens). 6. Re-route Line 13 to serve Expo Palms station. 7. Re-route Sunset ride to serve Bergamot Station. In order to cut costs and re-allocate to enhance existing services or create new services, I would recommend elimination of the Rapid 10 bus. I think enhanced services on the 3, 5, 7, 12 and cross-town / sunset rides would be more beneficial for last mile trips. The Rapid 10 is then a duplication of the Expo Line; outside of Santa Monica blvd service. But, as a daiy rider, I notice most of the ridership exit Bundy/Pico, Bundy/Olympic, Bundy/Santa Monica and west of Lincoln blvd. Yes, some ridership will be hurt, but not the majority. For Bundy/Santa Monica riders, enhanced service on the 14 would make up for it, slightly. I know Rapid 10 can get between Downtown LA and Santa Monica in 25 minutes outside of rush hour, but that's only 10% of its total weekly journeys. In rush hour, the Expo Line will be a guaranteed 46 min (albeit delays or service breakdowns, which can also happen on a bus). I know the 10 has a soft spot in all our hearts, I've taken it nearly daily since 2010 when I got a job in Santa Monica. I'll miss it, but I'd rather see enhanced service around Santa Monica and eliminate duplicates. It's like keeping a Downtown LA to Downtown LB bus route in service, with the Blue Line. Just no need.
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Post by bzcat on Feb 13, 2014 12:37:17 GMT -8
BBB probably won't go that far to completely eliminate R10 but I can see a lot of runs outside the rush hour get axed in favor of enhanced N-S service, especially on Bundy/Centinela (Line 14). Line 14 runs through Del Rey and Mar Vista Garden which has high transit dependency relative to the rest of BBB's service area, which should see ridership surge once Expo Phase 2 opens.
The rest of my proposals doesn't involve a lot of added resources (if at all) so I think they will be implemented in some form or fashion.
One other suggestion I made but forgot to include in my previous post is to re-route Line 4 terminus from Westwood Blvd @ Pico to Westwood Expo Station. This will give passengers going to the VA Hospital an easy transfer and one-bus ride.
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Post by bzcat on Mar 28, 2014 9:03:04 GMT -8
BBB is seeking public input on what kind of service they should provide for Expo II. Please take this survey: bigbluebusdesign.com/You have to make some choices regarding service level inputs (frequency vs. coverage, trunk route vs. circulator, bus lanes vs. kiss & ride etc)
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Post by RMoses on Mar 28, 2014 10:28:24 GMT -8
BBB is seeking public input on what kind of service they should provide for Expo II. Please take this survey: bigbluebusdesign.com/You have to make some choices regarding service level inputs (frequency vs. coverage, trunk route vs. circulator, bus lanes vs. kiss & ride etc) Less bus stops (not rapid) but eliminate a bus stop at every other corner or sometimes even every corner, make people walk and as a result increase the speed of the bus; this results in a lower number of buses needed and lower fixed costs. And get some real time tracking already, beyond belief they do not have this installed yet. Why wait 20 minutes for a late bus when you can walk the distance in 25?
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Post by bzcat on Mar 31, 2014 10:27:01 GMT -8
Less bus stops (not rapid) but eliminate a bus stop at every other corner or sometimes even every corner, make people walk and as a result increase the speed of the bus; this results in a lower number of buses needed and lower fixed costs. And get some real time tracking already, beyond belief they do not have this installed yet. Why wait 20 minutes for a late bus when you can walk the distance in 25? Totally agree... the lack of real time arrival info on BBB is both embarrassing and puzzling at the same time. Also, BBB has been eliminating some extremely close bus stops (sometimes only 50 ft apart) on Pico which has helped speed up the bus a bit. They need to do that on Olympic and Ocean Park.
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Post by joshuanickel on Jul 8, 2014 17:38:51 GMT -8
The big blue bus has come up with some preliminary recommendations that they would like input on. Here is the link to the survey where they will show each line with the proposed headways and length of service: Big Blue Bus Expo Proposal SurveySome of the proposals: Take a look at the survey it is very interesting and gives alot of detail.
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Post by bzcat on Jul 9, 2014 11:27:47 GMT -8
Wow, a lot to unpack and digest.
Seems like BBB has taken to heart the suggestion that they focus on North-South connection to Expo. Now every major corridor on the Expo Phase 2 area will have a BBB or Culver City bus. Some additions like Walgrove/20th street, Barrington/MacLaughlin, and Overland are seriously overdue.
If this plan is implemented in full, the BBB network will consist of the following N-S routes (all connecting with Expo):
From west to east Beach: Main street - Line 1 Downtown SM: Lincoln Blvd - Rapid 3 Midtown SM: Walgrove Ave/20th/26th - New bus Uptown SM: Centinella Ave/Bundy Dr - Line 14 West of 405: Sawtelle Blvd - New bus (replacing Line 4) East of 405: Sepulveda Blvd - Culver City Rapid 6 Westwood: Westwood Blvd/Overland Ave - Rapid 12 Century City: Avenue of The Stars/Motor Ave - Line 5
Some line extensions and re-routes are also very good ideas:
Line 1 to MDR - a single "beach side" bus service from Santa Monica to MDR has never existed before Line 5 to Palms Station instead of Culver City Station - this should speed up Century City to Expo line transfer substantially. Line 14 to Playa Vista - this will be a key ridership generator after Expo 2 opens. Also connecting to Rapid 3 at Lincoln will provide easy transfer to/from Green line from Del Rey area. Rapid 12 to Sony Studio probably should be extended a little big east to Downtown Culver City.
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Post by fissure on Jul 12, 2014 1:51:26 GMT -8
I'm sure Cheviot Hills will be ecstatic to have ~60 buses a day running through instead of 8. Not sure why they're keeping Rapid 10; it's barely faster than Expo outside of rush hours and far slower than it during rush hours. That labor and equipment would be better off decreasing headways on other lines. Feels kind of political---they want to keep a bus running in DTLA.
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Post by bzcat on Jul 15, 2014 12:34:12 GMT -8
Yep, I find it odd that they are not proposing cutting back Rapid 10, at least in non-peak hours. I think there is probably a faction of BBB staff that wants to see BBB continue to operate long distance express service outside their west side turf. Although to be fair, if your destination is northern part of Downtown LA (e.g. the court houses or city hall), Rapid 10 is still potentially faster.
I think once regional connector opens in 2019, it would harder to justify Rapid 10 service.
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Post by RMoses on Jul 15, 2014 13:07:34 GMT -8
Yep, I find it odd that they are not proposing cutting back Rapid 10, at least in non-peak hours. I think there is probably a faction of BBB staff that wants to see BBB continue to operate long distance express service outside their west side turf. Although to be fair, if your destination is northern part of Downtown LA (e.g. the court houses or city hall), Rapid 10 is still potentially faster. I think once regional connector opens in 2019, it would harder to justify Rapid 10 service. The late R10's departing Flower and 4th are a great benefit to the folks who work late, under 20 minutes once on the 10 to SM BLVD, except Thursday and Friday.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jul 15, 2014 20:28:50 GMT -8
Yep, I find it odd that they are not proposing cutting back Rapid 10, at least in non-peak hours. I think there is probably a faction of BBB staff that wants to see BBB continue to operate long distance express service outside their west side turf. Although to be fair, if your destination is northern part of Downtown LA (e.g. the court houses or city hall), Rapid 10 is still potentially faster. I think once regional connector opens in 2019, it would harder to justify Rapid 10 service. The late R10's departing Flower and 4th are a great benefit to the folks who work late, under 20 minutes once on the 10 to SM BLVD, except Thursday and Friday. Didn't Metro/RTD run a Long Beach to Downtown LA express before the Blue Line and eventually terminating that service around the rail line's opening or soon thereafter?
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Post by transitfan on Jul 16, 2014 6:00:33 GMT -8
The late R10's departing Flower and 4th are a great benefit to the folks who work late, under 20 minutes once on the 10 to SM BLVD, except Thursday and Friday. Didn't Metro/RTD run a Long Beach to Downtown LA express before the Blue Line and eventually terminating that service around the rail line's opening or soon thereafter? Yes, it was the 456 (was the 36 before the renumbering of the lines in the early 80s). Used the 710 Freeway to Long Beach Blvd, then Long Beach Blvd down to Ocean Blvd (later rerouted to the 1st St Transit Mall). I think it ran until the June 1991 shakeup, almost a year after the Blue Line opened, and a few months after the Blue Line was complete (7th St/Metro Center to Transit Mall).
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Post by bzcat on Dec 12, 2014 10:07:16 GMT -8
BBB's final Expo Phase 2 plan has been presented. The SM City Council will vote on it in March 2015. www.smgov.net/departments/council/agendas/2014/20141216/s2014121604-A-1.htmSome highlights: - 8 N-S corridors: Main St (Line 1), 4th St (Line 18), Lincoln Blvd (Line 3/R3), Walgrove/23rd St (Line 16), Bundy/Centinela (Line 14), Barrington (Line 15), Sawtelle (Line 17), Westwood/Overland (Line 8/R12). - 6 E-W corridors: Montana (Line 18), Wilshire (Line 2), Santa Monica (Line 1), Pico (Line 7/R7), Ocean Park (Line 8), Palms/National (Line 17) - Olympic (Line 5) has been truncated down to a feeder line to Bergamont Station and Century City. - Rapid 10 weekend is eliminated - Rapid 3 and Rapid 7 weekend added - Rapid 7 weekday peak headway is 7 minutes and 8 minutes during the daytime off peak period! - Shifting service focus from Culver City Station to Westwood Station, Bundy Station, and Santa Monica Stations - only 1 BBB bus (Line 17) will serve Culver City Station, as a compromise with Culver City Bus. - Palms station is not served at all - only a temporary Line 5 peak hour service is being planned, which will be dropped when Culver City Bus starts some type service there. BBB evidently has ceded the turf in Plams ares to Culver City in some sort of compromise to retain exclusivity in Bundy and Barrington corridors. - Line 14 north of Brentwood truncated, the south terminus shifts to Playa Vista's future Google Town complex, but not to Lincoln Blvd as originally planned. - Montana service is maintained (Line 3M becomes Line 18) instead of being completely eliminated in the original plan. - The grid proposal in the original plan seems to have been jettisoned in favors of keeping the doglegs, keeping the lower ridership corridor paired together with a higher one (e.g. Montana/4th St, Ocean Park/Westwood, Sawtelle/Palms) - No change to Line 9 (Pacific Palisades) so it would appear that Metro will continue to serve PCH in some form or fashion after Expo Phase 2 opens.
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Post by Philip on Aug 21, 2015 9:30:18 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 21, 2015 13:22:49 GMT -8
Santa Monica Big Blue Bus makes me roll my eyes most of the time. First, I get excited that there is a bus on Motor Avenue -- to only find out that there are four scheduled stops a day spaced by an hour. In my experience, walking has been faster than taking the Blue Bus.
What a useless bus company. It's there just to be there. Metro should take over the Big Blue Bus. Most of its lines are near useless. Or let Uber operate minivan shuttles to shuttle people around for $1 a person with frequent arrivals.
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Post by joshuanickel on Aug 21, 2015 13:58:24 GMT -8
Santa Monica Big Blue Bus makes me roll my eyes most of the time. First, I get excited that there is a bus on Motor Avenue -- to only find out that there are four scheduled stops a day spaced by an hour. In my experience, walking has been faster than taking the Blue Bus. What a useless bus company. It's there just to be there. Metro should take over the Big Blue Bus. Most of its lines are near useless. Or let Uber operate minivan shuttles to shuttle people around for $1 a person with frequent arrivals. What Big Blue Bus said when this was first being proposed, the line 5 peak hour extension down Motor to Palms was to just be a temporary service until Culver City Bus introduced their own service along Motor.
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