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Post by darrell on Oct 17, 2014 14:19:32 GMT -8
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Post by darrell on Oct 17, 2014 14:25:02 GMT -8
How do I like the new LRV? Nice, but I wish it was more like the best of the French Citadis trams (Flickr Creative Commons photos):  Bordeaux  Angers  Montpelier |
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Post by joshuanickel on Oct 17, 2014 14:29:18 GMT -8
In the vine video, you can see what are possibly new video screens in the upper right above the seats. Attachments:
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 19, 2014 3:17:18 GMT -8
How do I like the new LRV? Nice, but I wish it was more like the best of the French Citadis trams (Flickr Creative Commons photos): Bordeaux Angers Montpelier They look nice but would be very problematic in LA. As you see, they are a single multiarticulated unit that cannot be decoupled or coupled for shorter or longer units. Second, they use independent wheels as you cannot have an axle with the low-floor design. Not having an axle between the wheels is very unforgiving for a train. It could easily lead to a derailment if there is a track irregularity. It's much more so problematic at the 55 - 65 MPH operations in LA. Also, crashworthiness could be a problem with low-floor designs as well. |
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 19, 2014 3:21:07 GMT -8
In the vine video, you can see what are possibly new video screens in the upper right above the seats. I guess since there are no windows, people can at least look at the video screen.  Not a fan of video screens in transit, as every bus in every transit system seems to have these these days. It would only be good if it relayed relevant transit info. Certainly, having audio alongside with the video is awful. |
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Post by darrell on Oct 19, 2014 11:05:30 GMT -8
They look nice but would be very problematic in LA. As you see, they are a single multiarticulated unit that cannot be decoupled or coupled for shorter or longer units. Second, they use independent wheels as you cannot have an axle with the low-floor design. Not having an axle between the wheels is very unforgiving for a train. It could easily lead to a derailment if there is a track irregularity. It's much more so problematic at the 55 - 65 MPH operations in LA. Also, crashworthiness could be a problem with low-floor designs as well. In the hierarchy of modern U.S. rail transit -- heavy rail subway, light rail, downtown streetcar -- I think these European trams would fill the gap between our 55 mph light rail and streetcars. They're very nice for converting boulevards with grassy rail medians, 35 mph speeds, and shorter distances. |
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Post by gatewaygent on Oct 20, 2014 16:55:38 GMT -8
Oh là-là, comme je l'aime! Love the paint job of the unit running in the Montpelier pic. Why can't we have LRV's with paint schemes like that? Is it stubborn conservatism on Metro's part or is Metro afraid it will send patrons into sensory overload seizures? J/K!!! In some odd way, that pic reminds me of Pine Av. Long Beach...or at least what it could become if the Long Beach City Council ever decided to pursue their forgotten 2009 Limited Streetcar Feasibility Study.
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Post by bobdavis on Oct 21, 2014 1:08:17 GMT -8
Our Metro did have two of the original Blue Line cars (109 and 148) painted in a Pacific Electric tribute color scheme in 2000, but they were repainted back to the old look only about two years later. I remember visiting Melbourne, Australia back in 2001, and seeing some of their trams in advertising exterior decorations. They also had some of their old trams painted up for a local event called the Moomba Festival. Regarding the low-floor trams in the photos from France: This might be what the promoters of the Broadway Streetcar for downtown LA have in mind. They wouldn't work on the Metro light rail lines because those are all high-platform loading, which makes the design of cars a lot easier.
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Post by gatewaygent on Oct 21, 2014 17:51:51 GMT -8
Thank you for all that Bob. What I've extrapolated is that it wouldn't be cost effective for Metro. But how about if the entity that were advertising were in charge of both painting the advertisement and then painting back to original condition once the life of the advertisement expired?
I have a question: Besides the spelling, what is the difference between a tram and a streetcar? Are the differences stark or nuanced?
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Post by tramfan on Oct 23, 2014 12:22:14 GMT -8
How do I like the new LRV? Nice, but I wish it was more like the best of the French Citadis trams (Flickr Creative Commons photos): Bordeaux Angers Montpelier They look nice but would be very problematic in LA. As you see, they are a single multiarticulated unit that cannot be decoupled or coupled for shorter or longer units. Second, they use independent wheels as you cannot have an axle with the low-floor design. Not having an axle between the wheels is very unforgiving for a train. It could easily lead to a derailment if there is a track irregularity. It's much more so problematic at the 55 - 65 MPH operations in LA. Also, crashworthiness could be a problem with low-floor designs as well. These are streetcars, not LRV's. In Amsterdam the Siemens Combino's go easily over 55-70 Km/hr. Crashworthiness is much more of a problem for streetcars. Multi articulated trains are very common in the Netherlands (heavy rail) and were not unusual in Eastern Europe where Tatra's were used that way. But yes this would not work for the LRV's in LA. |
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Post by bobdavis on Oct 24, 2014 16:43:34 GMT -8
Regarding the difference between "tram" and "streetcar": Tram is generally used in Great Britain, Australia, and parts of Europe. Streetcar is commonly used in the US and Canada. In the US, "tram" can mean a small car used on a mining railway or a small bus used for short-range transport around a public facility, e.g. Universal Studios or the Disneyland parking lot. We also have "aerial tramways" like the one that takes people to the top of Mt. San Jacinto from the Palm Springs area. A "trolley" can be a streetcar, but the term has been corrupted by the makers of buses with imitation streetcar bodies. In England, a "trolley" can be a bus powered by overhead wires or a small cart, either for serving food on a train or airplane, or what we call a "shopping cart" over here. San Diego refers to their light rail system as the "San Diego Trolley", even though that name gave "naysayers" the opening to call it the "Tijuana Trolley". One error that I warn friends who are going to San Francisco about is: NEVER call a cable car a "trolley"! Getting back to buses powered by overhead wires: I've seen them called "Electric Buses", "Trolley Buses", "Trolley Coaches" and "Trackless Trolleys". A newer term is "Electric Trolley Bus", apparently coined to differentiate between them and both battery-powered buses like the ones in Santa Barbara, and the fake streetcar-bodied buses.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Oct 27, 2014 6:51:19 GMT -8
Short video feature on the new cars:
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 29, 2014 13:13:30 GMT -8
I hope the new cars aren't used in the Blue Line initially. It would be sad to have graffiti on them when they are new. So, let's hope the Expo storage facility is built soon.
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Post by bzcat on Oct 29, 2014 13:38:20 GMT -8
I hope the new cars aren't used in the Blue Line initially. It would be sad to have graffiti on them when they are new. So, let's hope the Expo storage facility is built soon. I think Metro doesn't have enough cars as is so they will continue to interline Expo and Blue and that means the new cars will be on the Blue Line. This won't change until the regional connector is up and running - at that point Expo cars will just be for the Expo-Gold line. |
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Post by gatewaygent on Oct 31, 2014 17:46:10 GMT -8
How weird to think that once the Connector opens there'll be a "new" Gold Line that runs east-west from East L.A. to Santa Monica and a "new" Blue Line that runs south-north (then west-east) from Downtown Long Beach to Pasadena (then Pasadena to Azusa). This will free up the Aqua color for another line. Although, since it's in place already, maybe it could become the basis for that pesky Santa Monica to Pasadena routing that keeps getting mentioned periodically, but is never negated.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Nov 11, 2014 14:18:33 GMT -8
I look forward to riding the new P3010, it's a handsome design in my opinion. My primary concern is that as a person over 6 feet tall it has enough leg room, or at least more than the Bredas on the Gold Line.
Is Metro replacing the whole light rail fleet with these?
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 11, 2014 14:52:20 GMT -8
I look forward to riding the new P3010, it's a handsome design in my opinion. My primary concern is that as a person over 6 feet tall it has enough leg room, or at least more than the Bredas on the Gold Line. Is Metro replacing the whole light rail fleet with these? The first 78 cars will go to the expo line (16 for phase 1 and 47 for phase 2) and the foothill gold line (15 vehicles). The second order of 97 cars will be for crenshaw line operation (28 cars) and the replacement of the current blue line cars (69 cars). At this time, there are no plans to replace the siemens p2000 and breda 2550 cars. There has been talk of a mid-life rehab of the siemens p2000 but I do not know what the status of that is. |
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Post by roadtrainer on Nov 12, 2014 10:15:57 GMT -8
Coming home from work last night I thought I saw a P3010 on the Del Amo Station Blue Line about 9:50 pm... Can anyone confirm?  |
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 12, 2014 11:02:59 GMT -8
Coming home from work last night I thought I saw a P3010 on the Del Amo Station Blue Line about 9:50 pm... Can anyone confirm? Currently Metro has only one car (#1001) and it is being stored in the green line yard and doing clearance testing out on the green line at night. What you saw was probably one of the blue line trains that are being repainted to match the new cars:  |
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 12, 2014 11:05:41 GMT -8
Coming home from work last night I thought I saw a P3010 on the Del Amo Station Blue Line about 9:50 pm... Can anyone confirm? Currently Metro has only one car (#1001) and it is being stored in the green line yard and doing clearance testing out on the green line at night. What you saw was probably one of the blue line trains that are being repainted to match the new cars. This car is considered the pilot car. Metro will go through and make sure all the systems work and the clearances are correct, and if it passes all those tests, then Kinkisharyo will go in to full production mode and more cars will start to arrive. From what has been mentioned, there are shells for six cars sitting in Palmdale ready to be put together once Metro gives the go ahead. Here is a video and some pictures of the new car being tested Sunday night: All photos and video come from Armando Ramirez on Facebook. Video: www.facebook.com/video.php?v=395657520584150Also some pictures:    |
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 12, 2014 12:41:10 GMT -8
Coming home from work last night I thought I saw a P3010 on the Del Amo Station Blue Line about 9:50 pm... Can anyone confirm? Come on, roadtrainer, they just put the pilot car on the Green Line with probe wires and devices attached all over it. It needs to be evaluated so that they can start the production cars. The pilot car is not going to go to the Blue and Expo Lines anytime soon. |
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Post by roadtrainer on Nov 13, 2014 8:56:47 GMT -8
Coming home from work last night I thought I saw a P3010 on the Del Amo Station Blue Line about 9:50 pm... Can anyone confirm? Come on, roadtrainer, they just put the pilot car on the Green Line with probe wires and devices attached all over it. It needs to be evaluated so that they can start the production cars. The pilot car is not going to go to the Blue and Expo Lines anytime soon. 8-|Well Joshua Nickel told me I saw Car # 103... It was a solo car going north bound about 9:50pm and on the bridge crossing Del Amo Blvd. |
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 13, 2014 12:43:48 GMT -8
Come on, roadtrainer, they just put the pilot car on the Green Line with probe wires and devices attached all over it. It needs to be evaluated so that they can start the production cars. The pilot car is not going to go to the Blue and Expo Lines anytime soon. 8-|Well Joshua Nickel told me I saw Car # 103... It was a solo car going north bound about 9:50pm and on the bridge crossing Del Amo Blvd. I was just using a picture of 103 to show that the blue line cars are getting the same color scheme. It was not necessarily car number 103 that you saw. There are multiple cars that have been repainted and there are also other cars in the process of waiting for the decals to be applied. Also Metro previously stated that the new car would be performing a clearance for three days beginning Sunday Night (Sun, Mon, Tue) which means when you saw the supposed train on Tuesday night, it was testing on the Green Line: New train testing on Green Line to begin this Sunday night |
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 13, 2014 13:11:46 GMT -8
New cars also have stainless-steel sides, single front windows with overall-modern-looking fronts, and double side windows instead of triple side windows. A/C's on the top are also covered. It shouldn't be that hard to tell them apart from the old cars with new liveries.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 13, 2014 21:14:14 GMT -8
I just learned from Metro that the first pilot P3010 will be tested at least until April.
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Post by bobdavis on Nov 25, 2014 23:10:11 GMT -8
I heard a brief report on KNX radio this afternoon: Apparently the problem with the Kinki Sharyo Palmdale plant being unacceptable to a special interest group has been solved with help from LA Mayor Garcetti. We await further details and developments.
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 26, 2014 0:15:38 GMT -8
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Post by bzcat on Nov 26, 2014 10:24:26 GMT -8
All the palms have been greased...
Now let's crank out those train cars!
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Post by Gokhan on Jan 30, 2015 11:40:53 GMT -8
I wonder why P3010's are being numbered from 1001 instead of 1000 like they did P865's.  |
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Post by transitfan on Feb 2, 2015 10:45:53 GMT -8
I wonder why P3010's are being numbered from 1001 instead of 1000 like they did P865's. The P865s seem to have been the exception rather than the rule: Breda Red/Purple Line cars: 501-604 P2000s: 201-250 (and 301-302) Breda LRVs: 701-750 I guess since the P865s were the first rail cars, they numbered them like the buses (which almost always started at "00", the one exception being the 1997 CNG Neoplan AN440As, which started at 6301 instead of 6300). |
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